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RoD
03-16-2003, 04:50 PM
Ok im not good with math, but a stunt i am thinking of attempting requires alot of it. I need to find out variables such as:

How fast do i need to go?

How high must the jump be?

At what angle must the jump be?

Angle of the landing ramp?

Distance between the two?

How far off the jump (into the air) must i be?

How long do i have?

And so on. Heres the idea. I am going to backflip my four wheeler, i'm dead serious. Before i can build the jump or begin to train, i need to figure these things out.

What i know is the weight of the bike, the weight of me, etc. I dont know what the wind will be, lets assume it calm for now. Can anyone aid me in the math?

rod_is_an_idiot
03-16-2003, 04:56 PM
you don't need a math genius, you need someone to teach you logical thinking!

RoD
03-16-2003, 04:59 PM
I've heard it. My parents, my girl, my best friends...i been saying i wanted to do this (its never been done successfully) since i started to ride (when i was 4)...its time to do it. I really need help with the math, though.

Xei
03-16-2003, 05:16 PM
You can use basic Momentum & Energy formulas to determine what slope you should use, and including a minimum velocity.The slope of the downward jump(the one you land on) should not be very steep and should be quite long. Otherwise just use common sense, and remember that you do have to keep your speed relatively fast so that you get high enough to do your flip and stay in control. Other than that, I recommend life insurance, a good helmet, and back-protector (I think Dainese makes them?). Good luck.

RoD
03-16-2003, 05:31 PM
Bike specs:

I weigh 156lbs, for the record.

Well i wear a helmet, jersey, pants, gloves, goggles, boots, and a kidney/chest protector at all times. So im not totally moronic. My girlfriend is on the Millville Rescue Squad so there will be a med team on site.

How would i figure those out?

Jeremy G
03-16-2003, 05:46 PM
Ever heard of guess and check?

heheh. Seriously thats a lot of physics. And I have a few questions for you: What tricks can you do? 180/360? Superman? seriously list the tricks you can do that require lots of physical dexterity. Are you a 'pro', have you been in any circuits? Been in any trick competitions?

Theres a reason that it isnt done. If your not a professional, there is no reason for you (non professional) to try and accomplish somethhing professionals dare not try.

RoD
03-16-2003, 05:51 PM
No pro-status, officially anyway. Been riding since i was 4, been racing since i was 12, been jumping since i was 11. I can do superman, candybar, heel click, backbend, lazyboy, and several other of the most common ones. Never seen anyone try a 360 or 180 on a quad, i wouldnt reccomend it.

I run every circuit in the NJ/PA/DE area that i can, placed 1st 8 times out of, say 30. I'm a little worried about one thing. The kangaroo kid is a professional ATV Freestylist, and he hasnt done this.

Doesnt mean its impossible, and i intend to prove it.

XSquared
03-16-2003, 06:08 PM
Your biggest problem will be getting the backwards rotation needed to get you to turn 360 degrees before you hit the ground.

TechWins
03-16-2003, 09:23 PM
Why don't you go get some opinions from other (exp) riders at an ATV forum? I'm sure you would find the best advice from people who actually can relate to what you're doing. Also, it wouldn't hurt if you got some advice from a physics/science teacher at your school, either. Well, good luck and if we don't see you post here anymore after your jump we'll know it if worked or not.;)

Dalren
03-16-2003, 10:22 PM
Here is the equation you need

X=1/2AT^2+VT
where X is displacement, A is acceleration, T is time, and V is your Intial velocity.

and X=VT
Distance equals velocity times Time.

Figure out how long you will be in the air by using acceleration due to gravity, an X of zero, and the velocity in the up axis, cos(Angle of Ramp). Once you have the time figure out your distance by taking your horizontal velocity, sin(Angle of Ramp) and multiply by the time. The steeper the ramp the higher in the air you will go but you won't have much horizontal speed. To maximize horizontal distance you want a 45 degree angle. Other than the physics I can't help, no experiance with such stupid stuns :p

03-17-2003, 02:03 AM
What you actually need is a good crew in the car with you, I think OSR would be ideal, and of course, Dean knows all about 4wd vehicles.

How many seats does this thing have?

RoD
03-17-2003, 05:07 AM
Every other ATV rider says its impossible, i say thats crap. Thanks for the equations, and as tech mentioned im going to try and talk to the physics teacher today.

You misunderstand adrian, its not a four-wheel drive truck or SUV, its a quad. Follow that link i posted and have a looksy.

TechWins
03-17-2003, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't say that it's impossible; I just wouldn't say it's likely you are going to be the one to accomplish it. It seems like it would take a least a few tries to finally get it right, but realistically you only have one chance to get either right or wrong (you getting injured). It's going to require you have perfect timing in all phases of the jump and accomplishing something like that on your first try seems difficult. But hey I hope you prove me wrong and you do it, or you decide not to do it at all. :)

RoD
03-17-2003, 08:19 PM
I promised Stef that i wouldnt leave that jump until i was as sure as i could be, and i also hope your wrong tech hehe. I spoke with the physics teacher, hes going to come here on saturday and work this out with me.

Once all the forumlas and such are figured out by us, i'm going to write a program that allows me to input different variables for everything so that i can account for current conditions such as weight, wind, etc.

Stefanie looked this up, and the #1 rankes ATV freestyle rider has been critically injured 37 times in his attempts to do this, but hes using a Banshee. The blaster might make all the difference.

I wont back out, and i've been known to break bones, heal, and try again. I see no reason why this is any different, and i intend to go at it with everything i have.

Life is an adventure, none of us are getting out alive anyway. I've been called dumb (among others) MANY times over this; It just pushes me farther. I wouldnt back out unless it came between me and Stef, but it wont. Shes been through alot with my dumbass. If you think im bad here, try being the one to worry about me 24 hours a day, why shes still here is beyond me!

Xei
03-17-2003, 10:47 PM
I've been thinking, and I think:
I wouldn't do it. Have you ever made a decision that you know was stupid from teh beginning? Even if you accomplished what you wanted to? This is one of those decisions RoD. Accomplishing it isn't gonna change your life, but failing it will. I just recommend staying as a successful wheeler (or whatever you are). You see if you don't try it, then everything stays the same, you remain safe, and life goes on. But think about this, if you fail you will likely minimally get paralysed from the waist down(and thats if your lucky); Also, if you do get permanently injured and maleformed do you think that Stef would stay with you?(That is your girlfriend isn't it?). Just give it a thought, there is a lot to lose.

RoD
03-18-2003, 04:53 AM
Yea stef is my girlfriend. I dont really see not doing it as an option. Your right, if i dont do it life stays the same. But it does change my life if i do get it. I'll enter the record books as the first one, and get a chance to do this on national television on ESPN. This very trick would revolutionize ATV Freestyle, and thats something i want more than anything.

ober
03-18-2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by RoD
Bike specs:

I don't have any other input on this, but just for the record, last time I checked... that is definately not a "BIKE".

Silvercord
03-18-2003, 07:29 AM
The blaster might make all the difference.

as in there may not be nearly enough power and you'll fall on your head half way through a rotation. Stick to just programming computers, you'll live longer

napkin111
03-18-2003, 09:10 AM
Don't do it just because you feel like you have to because of the pressure of others. If the odds are stacked way against you, don't be afraid to back down. Now that I've said that: GO FOR IT MAN!!! I wish I was there to see it! I don't care what other people say about "it wouldn't change your life", that would be such a freaking rush, I can feel it right now (sitting in this boring typing class). You could be a Tony Hawk of 4 wheeling. But what they said about ruining your life is true...just be sure to take all possible precautions.

Good Skill! (luck has nothing to do with anything)

//napKIN

Silvercord
03-18-2003, 12:05 PM
it is genius not genious

Govtcheez
03-18-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Silvercord
it is genius not genious It is genius, not genious.

RoD
03-18-2003, 12:57 PM
>>as in there may not be nearly enough power and you'll fall on your head half way through a rotation

It has more power than stock, alot more. I believe, this may sound lame, above all that you need to trust your bike. I know what it can/cant do, and in this situation i trust it with my life.

>>Don't do it just because you feel like you have to because of the pressure of others

I'm not, i'm for the rush :D Thanks for the reply, its people like you that make me happy to do what i do hehe. BTW, i'll reply to the PM later tonight Nap.

>>Stick to just programming computers, you'll live longer

Yea sitting on my ass eating bad food and programming is SO much better for my health :p

Govtcheez
03-18-2003, 01:01 PM
You should rig up a system in which a dummy tries the trick, videotape it, and post it.

RoD
03-18-2003, 01:08 PM
>>You should rig up a system in which a dummy tries the trick, videotape it, and post it.

Yea i'm going to try it.....o haha i get it :p

No i cant because that'll damage my bike. It'll all be on tap, and i'll upload it even tho i'm on 56k so you guys can see it. Going to start building the jump this weekend.

Govtcheez
03-18-2003, 01:09 PM
Wear a cup.

> has been critically injured 37 times in his attempts to do this

Whoa... Maybe it's better for humanity that that dude removes himself from the gene pool.

RoD
03-18-2003, 01:21 PM
>>Wear a cup.

I actually cant for this. I use a YZ (anyone who rides knows what a YZ is, its a dirtbike) style seat, and being that i will be clamped to the bike via my knees and hands i will be too tight to the bike to fit one in, but since u mention it i may want to try anyway. Not a bad suggestion.

>>Whoa... Maybe it's better for humanity that that dude removes himself from the gene pool.

Kangaroo Kid. Hes pretty insane, i saw a video of him backflipping, the rotation looks like the easiest part, its the landing.

Silvercord
03-18-2003, 01:34 PM
why would you want to wait until your funeral to have a lap dance by britney spears. if you're dead you can't enjoy it

Clyde
03-18-2003, 03:07 PM
I fail to see how you are going to be able to calculate the air resistance with any accuracy whatsoever.

Before you do it read up on Christopher Reeves, and how he lives his life.

Silvercord
03-18-2003, 04:04 PM
I saw a video of some guy doing a back flip on a snowmobile. Now that took balls...and a complete LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY...but still, lots of balls

RoD
03-18-2003, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Silvercord
I saw a video of some guy doing a back flip on a snowmobile. Now that took balls...and a complete LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY...but still, lots of balls

Yea, he missed it a few times, 5 i believe.

thePope
03-18-2003, 07:55 PM
well if you wanted to just jump a big ramp that would be easy to figure what you need to do. But you want to do a counter clockwise backflip? How do you plan to flip that thing around? That would be incredibly difficult thing to do. If it's actually physical possible(i don't think it is) what you need to figure by experimenting it how much time you need in the air and the distance you need. After that you can use these two equations to figure out your initial velocity.

R=Vi^2/g sin 2(theta) //this is for range the other person's
// like one person said you'll probably
//want to be at (theta)= 45d
//so just set it to 45d and solve for Vi
T=2Vi/g sin (theta) //For the amount of time you're in the air.

You'll simply have to figure out these two things and then solve your initial velocity. T and R depend on how fast you do your backflip which you can only figure out by experimenting. By the way I have doubts you can get enough velocity from a 4wheeler to get enough R and T for your flip. I suggest you set the ramp going off a cliff to get maximum flight time! :D

Actually thinking about it, you'll want to do something bigger than 45d, going up to about 70d. You should be able to simply lean back and use your weight and let the bike fall back over you. That's the only possible way I think of doing it. If you do lower you're gonna have to put A LOT of muscle in to it to throw the bike off it's center of mass. Which is very risky. good luck.

RoD
03-19-2003, 04:50 AM
The physics teacher has it almost worked out.

>>If it's actually physical possible(i don't think it is)

Yea it is. As i said before, several people have got the rotation with ease, its the landing that is hard to nail.

RoD
03-20-2003, 12:54 PM
I've pushed the day back into the beginning of may, bike problems came up today and i have to fix them.

EDIT: Turns out its the sensor box for the TOR system (Throttle //Override) fried again. Seems they only last a year
hehe, orderd a new one, day is still Apr 29, 2003

Silvercord
03-20-2003, 01:14 PM
why do you keep calling it a bike? Just because the blasters are small, it isn't a bike, it's a four wheeler! :mad:

RoD
03-20-2003, 01:35 PM
Racer lingo, we all call them bikes or quads, it doesnt rlly matter.

CheesyMoo
03-20-2003, 08:10 PM
Well I used to bike back in the day, I would say learn to backflip on the ground by yourself, then go really fast off a dirt jump and lean back, then spot your landing.

RoD
03-21-2003, 05:36 AM
I did learn how to backflip. Only one error in your logic however. An ATV is EXTREMELY hard to reposition side to side when in the air, so i have to spot the landing before i even leave the jump, not after the flip.

Silvercord
03-22-2003, 01:59 PM
Yeah rod I was riding my atv yesterday and I was thinking about how hard it would be to do a back flip on it. It's a little bit bigger than the machine you're going to do it with (the blaster), but imo you're nuts. I seriously don't even see how you can get that much metal to go up into the air and then actually rotate 360 degrees (YES ROD THAT'S 2 PI RADIANS YOU MATH GEENYUS YOU) and then land it back on its wheels.

How much do the banshees weigh? It doesn't seem to say it on the yamaha website, but chances are you're going to have a jump that goes almost straight up (both the snowmobiler and dirtbiker guys that did their back flips did them on almost vertical jumps). I seroiusly doubt the blaster's going to supply you with enough power to go straight up a ramp and then have enough forward momentum to allow you to pull it straight backward over yourself into a 360 degree rotation! The banshees probably weight at least 100 lbs more, but christ they've got a twin 2 stroke 347cc engine...it seems it would have a better power-to-weight ratio(also remember added weight increases momentum, although I'm not sure if increased momentum is necessarily what you want). Have you thought about trying to use a banshee (yeah, well I know banshees don't grow on trees but maybe you or a friend has one laying around...erm..yeah) instead of the blaster? I'm not an atv buff or anything, but I really think it would be awful to die by having an atv fall on your head, which I think you are at a great risk for.

RoD
03-22-2003, 07:01 PM
Banshee: 386lbs dry

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitspecs.asp?lid=1&lc=atv&cid=1&mid=2

Anyway, i have seen videos of people flipping, just not landing, with a blaster.

salvelinus
03-22-2003, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by RoD

Anyway, i have seen videos of people flipping, just not landing, with a blaster.
I think they always land, RoD. It's just a question of what lands first, rider or blaster. Remember, It's not the fall that kills you...

windoze victim
03-22-2003, 08:57 PM
ill arrange for that lap dance right away.

RoD
03-22-2003, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by salvelinus
I think they always land, RoD. It's just a question of what lands first, rider or blaster. Remember, It's not the fall that kills you...

Very true, but you know what i meant : )

Dude if u can arrange that lap dance i'll even let u have her too.

Silvercord
03-23-2003, 12:26 PM
I still don't think that little blaster is going to have enough power to propel itself and you up a vertical jump (it's going to have to be almost vertical dude) and then have enough momentum to do anything other than fall three feet in front of the jump.

this is the path of the blaster in ascii:

--------
/-------- \
/ -----------|
/--------------|
/----------------|
----------------/-----------------@ <- = RoD = :(

Silvercord
03-23-2003, 12:29 PM
well it looked like this when i made it:

RoD
03-23-2003, 03:25 PM
LMAO

-----------------@ <- = RoD =

hahaha

Dude they CAN do it, i've seen them do it, the people always mess up on the landing. My blaster will nail 97mph, faster than stock banshee's go lol.

windoze victim
03-24-2003, 12:43 PM
Umm, yeah, right.

I think ill stick to nordic treks, especialy at night on snowmobile trails in the dark, and hurdling the 400.

Its so fun to ski on trails in the dense woods at night when you can only see 10ft ahead. Especially those downhill parts. Oh, but that time I straddled a tree after acidentialy jumping the berm on the turn of a track, ouch. oh, and doing a forward/sideways roll when nordic racing going oh, about 30 mph, that is fun, especialy when its in front of hot girls cheering you on. =D Its this place where if you do it right, you can throw a bunch of snow and ride horizontal to gravity.

RoD
03-24-2003, 12:45 PM
heh, i want winter back so i can snowboard some more.

I'm totally into this, but i dont know if its going to happen. As the day gets closer stef leans against it a bit harder, and she takes presidence(sp?) over a stupid stunt.

I really wanna do it, even if that sounds nuts.

windoze victim
03-24-2003, 12:54 PM
hey, if you realy want to do it that badly, well,

My girlfriend is on the Millville Rescue Squad so there will be a med team on site.
It may be insane, but go for it, and we'll start up the RoD Reconstruction fund.

RoD
03-24-2003, 01:02 PM
LMFAO!!!!!!

I am so going to use that.....

windoze victim
03-24-2003, 01:10 PM
put it in my AIM profile

=D

Oh, and i sell caskets! Would you like a custum one to fit to your deformed corpse?:p