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vasanth
02-21-2003, 11:17 AM
Read the thread http://www.cprogramming.com/cboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34769

and please vote if you agree with the idea and would prefer a tutorial section-board( dynamic tutorial) here on our fav forum.....

Travis Dane
02-21-2003, 11:38 AM
Can't do any harm can it?

Govtcheez
02-21-2003, 11:39 AM
Who's going to write this ambitious section?

RoD
02-21-2003, 01:03 PM
i dont think we need a board for it. This is just imo, but people know the section is there and others already write for it. The faq is un-used because people are lazy honestly, it seems like way too much effort when you could just submit tutorials like we do.

Travis Dane
02-21-2003, 01:34 PM
Maybe, But the tutorials on the main index are just tutorials...and
nothing more. With a board you could add comment, Post
problems with it, Adjust things, It's just far more fun. Ofcouse
We can't get this off the ground with support from the people.

Hammer
02-21-2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Travis Dane
Maybe, But the tutorials on the main index are just tutorials...and
nothing more. With a board you could add comment, Post
problems with it, Adjust things, It's just far more fun. Ofcouse
We can't get this off the ground with support from the people.
Personally, I think this will be difficult to control and keep sane.

To start with, lets say someone posts a tutorial, how do we know their competent enough, have more than half a brain, and have been coding for more than 3 days? OK, thats a bit extreme, but I've seen many examples where well meaning newbies who think they're better than they really are, create tutorials that only serve to confuse rather than educate.

The next that that will happen on a forum, is a bunch of more experienced people flooding in to provide corrections and show alternative ways of doing things. The thread then becomes a conversation, and you loose the sense of it being a "tutorial". Any newbie trying to learn from it will probably be put off by different posters arguing/chattering, and will end up looking elsewhere for the answer to their question.

This might seem a bit negative, I know, I just don't think we'd really benefit from having an open board dedicated in this manner. Besides, there are enough programming boards here, if you want to write a tutorial on one, go do it! :)

I prefer the off-board web pages, where the content can be verified and corrected if necessary before being posted, leaving the forums for open discussion of smaller topics.

(Disclaimer: This is my opinion as a forum user, not as a forum moderator)

RoD
02-21-2003, 03:22 PM
Well said, so im not the only one who thinks this is not needed.

Xei
02-21-2003, 08:18 PM
Well nothing is really needed if you think about it. We don't need a General Discussion board, but there is one. Just like this site doesn't need tutorials, but it has some. I think that a board of tutorials would be good and could range from Beginner to Intermediate to Advanced. It obviousely would not just fill up real fast, but given time tutorials will likely build up then all of a sudden this site would probably have more quality learning material. Then any tutorial which got low votes could be removed, and anything that people liked could stay.

RoD
02-21-2003, 08:32 PM
I disagree. We have a board full of information, talented staff and members, a awsome new faq, and a tutorials section thats going to be bigger then most think soon, trust me, i know.

Another board is just one more database hogging thing for mods to pick through that wont get used as much as it will be maintained. If u want more tutorials submit em to hammers faq, this would be a awsome idea if we needed it , but i dont see the need.

face_master
02-21-2003, 09:26 PM
remember that guy who got flamed really bad after he asked for comments for his C tuts on his site and he was using void main and the code was scattered all over the page, all up really bad.

Shiro
02-22-2003, 08:15 AM
I think tutorials can be usefull, but I don't see a need for a board for it. People can read such tutorials and if they have questions, they can ask at the available boards. I also wonder if most people would really visit the tutorials, most of the beginners, those are the largest part of the people asking questions, just want quick answers on their questions. They usually don't want to read whole tutorials, they should, but they don't want to.

Also their questions are usually often very specific, they have a program and have problems with that, or they have to deal with other specific things. Most of such questions can't be answered with tutorials. A tutorial on binary trees is usefull, but it does not always help people who have coded a binary tree and get errrors with it. Then they need someone to explain what they are doing wrong.


I will vote "don't care". The reason for this is that I think tutorials itself can be usefull, but I don't think we need a board for it.

vasanth
02-23-2003, 07:11 AM
Ok.. i see that more people want it rather than "Dont want it".. it is now up to the Mod's, web master and other guys to decide....

RoD
02-23-2003, 10:07 AM
Its hard to say that more want it than not. Its only been open for a few days, and its not even to a second page yet(unless this post makes it). Notice that most of the veterans arent really into this idea, where some of the newer people are, shouldnt that tell you something?

I'm just saying i wouldnt throw too much hope into this idea. I'm all for making cprog better, but this wont.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by RoD
but this wont.

Explain...

RoD
02-23-2003, 10:13 AM
I already have, as have several others. Read our posts and arguments.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by RoD
I already have, as have several others. Read our posts and arguments.

I haven't seen anyone making a clear statements 'this won't
make cprog better', Offcourse it has it's disadvantages but
shouting out loud that i wont make it better at all? no...
I'l awate the dicsision of the moderators\administrators\webmaster.

vasanth
02-23-2003, 10:21 AM
Well lets see... If this doesnt work, i have plans to start a site completely for tutorials... But that would be work.. I would prefer it here.. any way time will tell...


And the reason many advnaced programmers or users here are not interested in the idea is due to the fact many tutorials would not interest them.. Will they want to read a tutorial on C++, pointers, data structures,, no, not at all.. they would already be masters with it.. But new or basic programmers or users here would not be..

RoD
02-23-2003, 10:22 AM
It wont make it better because the maintainence of it will take away from mods time needed elsewhere, not too mention it will just take up database for something we already have two sections for!

You have hammer's new faq and the section on the website, why do we need more?? The ratio of its predictable usage too time maintaining is wayyy unbalanced, and makes it pointless.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:25 AM
New moderators can always be assigend so that's no argument,
And the tutorials on the main index are just not paid attention to,
nobody comments it nor fixes nor answer questions readers have
about it. And i haven't seen Hammers FAQ yet so we can't judge
about that yet.

RoD
02-23-2003, 10:28 AM
And the tutorials on the main index are just not paid attention to,
nobody comments it nor fixes nor answer questions readers have
about it.

Wrong. They are in the process of being updated, and if they arent payed attention too and people dont answer questions, then why do i get pm's and emails about them? Freaky.


And i haven't seen Hammers FAQ yet so we can't judge
about that yet

Try clicking the link.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by RoD
Wrong. They are in the process of being updated, and if they arent payed attention too and people dont answer questions, then why do i get pm's and emails about them? Freaky.

Then explain the countless threads about things that are
explained in the FAQ?

RoD
02-23-2003, 10:34 AM
Simple they are pre-RoD, i get alot of questions since i began to work on the tutorials section.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by RoD
Simple they are pre-RoD, i get alot of questions since i began to work on the tutorials section.

I'm refering to the questions where the answers lie in the
basic C++ tutorials.

Shiro
02-23-2003, 10:37 AM
> i have plans to start a site completely for tutorials (..) I would
> prefer it here..

You could ask the maintainers of cprog if your tutorials could be placed here. Then you have tutorials and you have them here.

> And the reason many advnaced programmers or users here are
> not interested in the idea is due to the fact many tutorials
> would not interest them.. Will they want to read a tutorial on
> C++, pointers, data structures,, no, not at all..
> they would already be masters with it.. But new or basic
> programmers or users here would not be..

Such tutorials would be large, very large, if their purpose would be to answer most questions beginners usually have. They would have to explain about C, C++, algorithms and datastructures. There are already a lot of sites and books on this.

I don't say your idea is a bad one, in fact, I like the idea to have tutorials which beginners could read. But on the other hand there are already a lot of good tutorials and books which they could read. In my opinion it is more usefull to direct them to those tutorials and books and let them read those. If they have questions, then they can come here, but I think it is not a good idea to spend much effort in writing things which already exist. In my opinion that time could better be spend on helping beginners with their questions and show them how to find more info on the internet. I usually see that beginners don't know where to look for, they often don't know the exact terms required to find specific information.

-KEN-
02-23-2003, 10:46 AM
What a horrible idea.

Getting a new board added to this site is near impossible anyhow...and thank God! Hammer's right, we'd end up in a gigantic ........fest of flaming and debate. If they're too lazy to find the tutorials section of the site then they don't deserve to live anyhow.

>>New moderators can always be assigend

I'm not sure how hard I should be laughing here...are you angling for a mod position?

>>I haven't seen anyone making a clear statements 'this won't
make cprog better'

This won't make cprog better. Happy?

>>I'l awate the dicsision of the moderators \ administrators \webmaster.
>>It's now up to the Mods...

Hammer made it quite clear his feelings about it. I know for a fact the rest of the mods are sane enough to not even take this into consideration. This is no different than "We need a Java board d00derz bcuz I'm too lazy to go somewhere else! LOLOLOLOL!!!"

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 10:49 AM
I'm not sure how hard I should be laughing here...are you angling for a mod position?

Offcourse not, Bu there are lots o' people expirienced nuf to be
one.


This won't make cprog better. Happy?

Yep.


LOLOLOLOL!!!

No comment....

SMurf
02-23-2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by -KEN-
Hammer's right, we'd end up in a gigantic ........fest of flaming and debate.
You mean we aren't already?!? :p

I think that the forum isn't the place for tutorials. Running classes perhaps, but not static information, otherwise, why have the site?

Hammer
02-23-2003, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Travis Dane

>>I haven't seen anyone making a clear statements 'this won't
make cprog better'

>>And i haven't seen Hammers FAQ yet so we can't judge
about that yet.

You amaze me :rolleyes: Both your statements go to prove you can't even be bothered to read this thread, let alone anything useful like the FAQ or a tutorial. In future, Try reading what people are saying before posting.

>>i see that more people want it rather than "Dont want it"
IMHO, those voting "don't care" are probably doing so because they don't see a use for it, but don't want to stop others from benefiting from it. So, they are actually voting against it, but in a polite way. Or maybe they share Shiro's views, that tutorials are good, but not in the shape of a forum. Either way, the majority is against. But hey, my theories could be wrong.

>>If this doesnt work, i have plans to start a site completely for tutorials
Why not use this site, you do realise you can submit things to be displayed on the FAQ and tutorials pages?

>>This is no different than "We need a Java board...
Oh come on, *please* don't put ideas into peoples heads.. :D

Whatever comes of this thread, the final decision goes to the webmaster, but without a landslide victory, I seriously doubt a new forum will get created. (IMHO).

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Hammer
You amaze me

What i ment was RoD wrote it off as not being ANY help for
the board whatsoever, I don't quite agree, It's advantages
might not stack up against the problems that come with it,
But i think it's intentions where right.

RoD
02-23-2003, 07:02 PM
Intentions wont create success. In that paragraph alone u summed up my whole argument in my favor, thanks.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by RoD
alone u summed up my whole argument in my favor, thanks.

Depends


It's advantages
might not stack up against the problems that come with it

This is debateble, Not a fact.

RoD
02-23-2003, 07:21 PM
Debateable but likely. You cant honestly tell me that the predictions made my shiro, hammer, and myself are less likely then the outcome you want.

Travis Dane
02-23-2003, 07:54 PM
I don't goddamn know, Sorry.

vasanth
02-23-2003, 10:42 PM
Well atleast, is it ok if another site or page is started by many senior members here... Can you give a link.. I am sure we will agree not to put any ads.. It can be modified by cprog mods...
May be we can arive at a common solution....

Xei
02-23-2003, 11:55 PM
Maybe if it seems that it 'May Not Work' then everyone who would like to see it succeed could make a kind of 'Beginning' to some sort of list of tutorials. I just thought of an idea right now(May be good, or just illogical), but we could get a bunch of people, each in groups of 2, who will write a tutorial(s) together(that way it decreases likeliness of error, and may increase quality of tutorial). So we could all come up with a list of questions/topics that most C/C++ programmers end up going over anyways, then we could try to partner up (If you think that sounds okay) and then present the tutorial by a certain dead line. This would only work if there was a large majority of people who wanted to help and were willing to cooperate with eachother, but I think that IF it worked it would definately make a good start to a list of tutorials which could be placed on the Source Page or wherever. Remember, its just an idea.

RoD
02-24-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by vasanth
Well atleast, is it ok if another site or page is started by many senior members here... Can you give a link.. I am sure we will agree not to put any ads.. It can be modified by cprog mods...
May be we can arive at a common solution....

I think a link database to any members site related to c++ would be an awsome addition to the website.

Unreg1
02-24-2003, 05:59 AM
Originally posted by RoD
I think a link database to any members site related to c++ would be an awsome addition to the website.
What, like this one (http://www.cprogramming.com/cgi-bin/cdir/Cdirectory.cgi)

vasanth
02-24-2003, 06:04 AM
Thank you for your agreement... does this mean it has the nod from the webmaster.. And is it ok if i recruit people from this board for the purpose of building tutorials, and maintaining a site for the tutorial. Could we reach a proper well listed conclusion here...

Unreg1
02-24-2003, 09:43 AM
Thank you for your agreement... does this mean it has the nod from the webmaster
Now that makes me laugh :rolleyes: What gives you the impression the webmaster has even read this thread?

vasanth
02-24-2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Unreg1
Now that makes me laugh :rolleyes: What gives you the impression the webmaster has even read this thread?

well i PM'ed him.. and i am sure he is keeping a tab on what is happening here...

-KEN-
02-24-2003, 02:56 PM
>>I think a link database to any members site related to c++ would be an awsome addition to the website.

Woah - that reminds me...do you remember CBD? (The CBoard Database)

I'd forgotten about that...it got so much momentum, then that guy (can't remember his name) completely dropped off the face of the boards.

Govtcheez
02-24-2003, 03:00 PM
kooma - I saw him awhile ago. I think he was going to jail for refusal to serve in the military.

-KEN-
02-24-2003, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
kooma - I saw him awhile ago. I think he was going to jail for refusal to serve in the military.

:eek: What the hell? Where does he live and where did you see him?

Govtcheez
02-24-2003, 04:45 PM
I didn't mean in real life - he posted awhile ago and I noticed it (actually, his last post was in April of last year, so maybe I'm imagining things or I've got some time-dilation problems).

He's from Finland, AFAIK - I remember him saying something about being put in jail because he didn't believe in their compulsory military service.

RoD
02-25-2003, 04:53 AM
Actually i had entirely forgotten about having one, whoops. Guess we already have our solution. Another option might be to compile your website and see if wm wont place a link to it under tutorials for additional tutorials.