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BMJ
02-19-2003, 11:17 PM
If you have the time, this is a very worthy read :)

http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

face_master
02-19-2003, 11:45 PM
already seen it

Shadow12345
02-20-2003, 01:06 AM
Mixing with people tends to make conversaion go from potentially stimulating and intellectual to a mix of a general consensus of 'your mamma' jokes and football jaunter: stuff that everyone can relate to and understand. Not everyone can relate to talking about rockets and programming computers and science. So I guess I agree with the dude that wrote the article.

EDIT: speaking of which I got the cops called on me two days ago for attaching rockets to an old WWII Corsair airplane (it had an alcohol engine but I ripped that out and gave it to my neighbor). It sucked because we didn't had a pole to lead it straight and it just spazzed out and flew in all directions.

Jeremy G
02-20-2003, 02:12 AM
Excellent article, excellently written.

Very true (from my perspective.) I was(or still am) a nerd. I'm in college now (first year). Things don't seem to bad. I haven't noticed any social groupings of hiearchy, rather small groups of freinds that either don't interact at all, or politely or beniegn manner.

Panopticon
02-20-2003, 04:12 AM
Very well written article. Although I reside in Australia, school society is practically the same as the one depicted in that article.

Govtcheez
02-20-2003, 07:22 AM
I read that the other day. That's not how it was at my school - we just mostly got along.

Travis Dane
02-20-2003, 08:48 AM
As long as you don't mention that computers are your live
you should be fine, As i could hardly imagin if you do much
with computers you actually start to look like a nerd. Also
I don't understand why people that use computers alot fail
in their social live, Has that ever been proven? Nooo, But
apperntly we seem to take it as a fact and as an indicator
for someone to be a nerd, I won't mention the glass thing wich
is even more ridicelous.

Govtcheez
02-20-2003, 08:50 AM
> I don't understand why people that use computers alot fail
in their social live,

Let's see - you're 15. You spend like 8 hours a day here, when you could be out actually talking to real people. I can't imagine why, either.

Travis Dane
02-20-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
Let's see - you're 15. You spend like 8 hours a day here, when you could be out actually talking to real people. I can't imagine why, either.

(8 hours? You keep track of those things?), Well 8 minus sleep
is 16 hours that go to waste, Then i still have a nice 8 hours to
talk to people? And with a bad social live i don't point to the
amount of people talk, But rather how you look and behave,
Those things aren't related to computers.

Govtcheez
02-20-2003, 08:58 AM
> (8 hours? You keep track of those things?),

No, that was just a guess. It just seems like you're always here (I know I am too, but I'm mostly here while I'm at work, so I can't do anything resembling a social life during that time anyways)

If you do that, then cool - there are plenty of people who spend 16 hours a day glued to their computer and never talk to any real people or get out of their house.

Travis Dane
02-20-2003, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
there are plenty of people who spend 16 hours a day glued to their computer and never talk to any real people or get out of their house.

Those are the people responsible for the word 'nerd' , I think
you won't have to be a nerd, You can easily do something about
your looks or go out and jogg for half an hour.

...
02-20-2003, 09:41 AM
if youre still talking about nerds, you missed the point of the article.

i quite enjoyed it, very insightful...

Cheeze-It
02-20-2003, 12:49 PM
I can't identify with that article... I was extremely popular in
school. I was borderline "stud".

True story.

Govtcheez
02-20-2003, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by ethic
I can't identify with that article... I was extremely popular in
school. I was borderline "stud".

True story. I can back this up to anyone doubting this. Me and ethic went to high school together, and we tight, dawg.

Hey - remember that night when that dude called you Batman and you kicked his ass? Classic, man - he should have known better than to talk to you.

Cheeze-It
02-20-2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
I can back this up to anyone doubting this. Me and ethic went to high school together, and we tight, dawg.

Hey - remember that night when that dude called you Batman and you kicked his ass? Classic, man - he should have known better than to talk to you.

Of course I remember that night. It was the same night I was
voted Homecoming King and Queen... (That's right. I was so
popular, I won both popularity contests)..

Cheez is my "Robin"

Govtcheez
02-20-2003, 01:01 PM
> Cheez is my "Robin"

But we ain't gay! Remember that!

ober
02-20-2003, 01:09 PM
nice cover... ;)

-KEN-
02-20-2003, 04:06 PM
That article isn't much more than a bunch of BS...

You don't work to have friends, and that's all popularity is. I get along with people very easily thanks to my sense of humor, and I guess for that you could call me popular. I don't work at any of it...I'm just myself. I go to parties. I drink. I dress to look good, but usually to myself (unless I want someone to notice me). I hang with my friends a lot, and we chill or do fun things like go tubing, go to the beach, race our cars, play sports, whatever..

I also program, work with computers, and get good grades. I want to be in good shape and work hard for when I get into college, and I want to do all of this to land a good job.

I'm always in the 95-99th percentile in standardized tests (usually a 95ish in math and a 99ish in reading). According to my mom my IQ is something amazing, but she refuses to tell me. Oh well. Not that I really think it counts for too much.

So in other words, I see that article as complete BS and a "Hey, we're not socially backwards and awkward....we're just focused on other things!" type of statement.

Maybe my school's just completely different from everyone elses...but I doubt it.

>>But we ain't gay! Remember that!

More BS!

And yes - ethic will always be the most popular person on the planet. Hell, he came in 2nd as "Funniest person on the internet" next to Ken Fitlike! :cool:

Xei
02-20-2003, 09:09 PM
I don't care if anyone thinks that the article was 'excellently' written because its crap. Some people just decide to preach about complete nonsense, which is what that article is! Do I care what Sarah Harlin, Trevor Blackwell, Robert Morris, Eric Raymond, and Jackie Weicker think about their pitiful high-school years? (Oh, wait, now someone will say "Thats not what the article is about!" but I think that we can summarize it to that). Lets see what excellent insight they can give us!


High School Loser Says:
Now most kids have little idea what their parents do in their distant offices

Awe.. whats that? Poor Johnnys mom can't admit that she's a hooker? (Oh my, it's so aweful to catagorize each parent who does not disclose their career choice to their children as such a bad thing!) BTW Most kids do know what their parents do for a living.


More From the Loser Says:
I think the important thing about the real world is not that it's populated by adults, but that it's very large, and the things you do have real effects. That's what school, prison, and ladies-who-lunch all lack. The inhabitants of all those worlds are trapped in little bubbles where nothing they do can have more than a local effect. Naturally these societies degenerate into savagery. They have no function for their form to follow.

Hmm... lets see, I dont care what the writers think about the real world. Oh, he says its Large! That must've took skill! Now they want to talk about purpose? Okay, a) Does this article make any more than a local effect on the world? No. b) Is there some incredible function of this article? No.


Nerd Boy spoke!
It seems to me there is something wrong when it's routine for smart kids to dwell on suicide. It wasn't just our school. I've met many people since who were vaguely suicidal in high school.


Oh yes! What insight! He thinks it 'seems' something is wrong when kids kill themselves(only smart kids though), good for him! Oh, so I guess that 'Smart' kids think of killing themselves all the time... heres something for him "Smart People Don't Kill Themselves." Perhaps if the wonderful writter(s) of the article would've thought about suicide more thoroughly before that article they'de be doing us all a great favor. BTW they must've all been going to 'Terrorist Car-Bombing School' if there was such a wide-spread plague of death.


Man of Wisdom speaketh again:
Why don't smart kids make themselves popular? If they're so smart, why don't they figure out how popularity works and beat the system, just as they do for standardized tests?


So its only smart kids who are unpopular?

I can continue to bash this article, but I think everyone has a good idea what I'm saying. This article is crap, it summarizes the problems that teenagers have to be the cause of society(which like 1%, if that, have). Being unpopular is never a problem, and most unpopular kids dont attempt to kill themselves. The article is completely BS, it has no purpose whatsoever, and the article makes lots of generalizations. I can't believe anyone would write about such a $$$$ topic. Now I know that some of you might say "There have been thorough studies that prove that almost all unpopular smart kids think of killing themselves and have horrible child-hoods!" All I have to say to anyone who believes that is that whoever did the study deserves to be beaten, mamed, and dragged behind a truck down a gravel road.

Scourfish
02-20-2003, 09:59 PM
tl;dr

nvoigt
02-21-2003, 05:20 AM
Being unpopular is never a problem, and most unpopular kids dont attempt to kill themselves.


This statement proves you have either never been to high school, or have been popular. While I think the article went a little far, the general direction was right. And don't tell me you knew a kid who can understand what a non-Astronaut, non-Cook, non-Firefighter actually does when s/he is away doing a job. Sitting behind a desk shuffling paper of some sort. Great job description.

Govtcheez
02-21-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Scourfish
tl;dr Band! Hope u got :tenbux:

beege31337
02-21-2003, 12:03 PM
I don't know what you are talking about, the smartest people I know are very popular. Of course I also know some smart people who don't know how to act around people or how to dress cool, but if they have a strong desire to be popular but can't figure out how to, then they aren't really very smart.
Sometimes people complain about being unpopular, but they are afraid to talk to girls, they watch star trek, and they read comics books and are very into computers; those things are just not considered cool by most people especially girls ( it's fine if you like these things, but to flaunt them and still expect most people to think you're cool, is kinda dumb ).
I'm a computer science major, but i'm also in a fraternity and I can say that smart people have a much easier time being liked and meeting girls then dumb people. It's just about being smart enough to relize what attacts other people ( and conversely what scares them away ).

So my advice to any loser nerds out there:
- don't talk about nerdy things to people who aren't interested in them.
- don't be dirty ( some nerds seem to forget to shower daily )
- keep an attractive appearance
- be confident and cool and talk to people.


That's it. Take it from me because awhile ago I was extremely shy and unpopular, but I actually but some effort into it and i'm not that way at all anymore.

Unregd
02-21-2003, 02:47 PM
The author's observations and conclusions clash with my experience. I cannot say that I am best buddies with everyone in school, but the vast majority does not respond, "Ew! Nerd!" when they see my pale-skinned (hey, it's winter) face. Actually, I can get along at least cordially with almost everyone who has dropped their middle school pretensions. In my opinion, the more afraid a person is of a certain social situation, the more likely the outcome is to be bad.

Most of the nerds at my school seem to avoid the self-defeating dress and demeanor of the stereotypical nerd; and, as long as they present themselves as a healthy, well-rounded person, they do not have much social trouble even if they don't date cheerleaders. In other words, people tend to stick to their close friends and forget about the false communities of warring cliques. The author of this article paints a bleaker view, but my experience shows that this old way may be waning.

Finally! Difference has been recognized for what it is: normal!

-KEN-
02-21-2003, 03:31 PM
Ever noticed how easily swayed people seem to be on these boards? With most things people will run with the last thing said. Notice how everyone went with BMJ until I posted? Then there was a complete shift...

Definitely isn't the first time this has happened either.

Oh, and...


Originally posted by Scourfish
tl;dr
GB2FYAD!

Xei
02-21-2003, 07:27 PM
Posted by nvoigt:This statement proves you have either never been to high school, or have been popular
As I may have been speaking my opinion about the article, it does not prove anything about myself. Your assumptions are both incorrect.

Posted by KEN:Notice how everyone went with BMJ until I posted? Then there was a complete shift...

Yes I have noticed that also. I would've posted what I did even if you went with BMJ, but I definately appreciated someone with a similar opinion as mine. :)

Terrance
02-21-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by -KEN-
Ever noticed how easily swayed people seem to be on these boards? With most things people will run with the last thing said.


It's that way in life in general, power of persuasion, study more psychology and you'll understand why.

-------------------

I don't think you can say smart people in general are losers.

Although some may disagree, I think popularity has a lot to do with how optimistic you are. In high school, typically the most optimistic are the jocks, because of inflated egos. While, unpopular kids typically have the lowest self esteem(for many reasons that I'm not going to mention).

Being optimistic effects how social you are, what types of decisions you make, and your overall mood.

Everyone in high school is scared, no matter what status they're at. They worry about an assortment of problems ranging from grades, popularity, opposite sex.

For me in general, the less I was concerned with what people thought of me in high school, the more people liked me. Early in high school I was overly concerned with what people thought of me. I played sports, but because I wasn't part of the popular crowd, I didn't socialize much with jocks. My friends were considered losers, and I worried what people would think of me from hanging around with them. It literally got to the point where I wasn't liked by anyone, because I turned on my friends, and I didn't socialize with anyone else.

But by the time I got to my senior year, the less friends I had, the less I cared what people thought of me. I started talking to people regardless of their popularity. Because I understood what other people were going through, I started being nicer to people. The kids who used to make fun of me, I started making fun of them, and the funny thing is, they started to show more respect towards me when I made fun of them. Other kids who were made fun of by them also liked me more. I just gained more confidence and optimism, and it seemed as though my popularity just grew.

Anyways, too bad I wasn't able to really start to get over the whole "high school" phase of life until I was a senior (then again a lot of high school kids never do). But I'm hoping a lot of you who are like me, can understand that everyone goes through a tough time in those years of your life, and it's not just the unpopular kids who are insecure. You really have to be brave and overcome your fears.

windoze victim
02-22-2003, 11:17 AM
Im not popular with the "in" crowd at my high school. But i am friends with my own group of people who dont care, they are just people i meet, and we go out and have fun. There is also the group that i hang out with that loves computers. We are friends with each other because of their minds, and not because of their bodies/clothes.

In my extremely humble opinion, its the "in" crowd that separates themselves from everyone else, by considering them losers.
Most of the school doesn't pay any attention to them.

Terrance: A lot of my friends are "losers compliments of the helpful decisions of the in crowd."
My response is to ignore them, and hang out with people who aren't the "in" crowd. I recently estimated that in fact, most of the school wasn't "in".


Now, let the flaming contine. =D

Unregd
02-22-2003, 01:29 PM
At my school, I've noticed a maturing factor. By senior year, virtually no one cares about social status, at least in my class. The younger classes seem to be more cliquish than ever unfortunately so maybe the trend towards inclusion is breaking. The freshmen, as usual, are overtly concerned with being cool, and the seniors at least have mostly moved on to a "live and let live" attitude. I'm sure the freshmen and sophomores will learn the life lessons before they leave high school, or at least I hope so.