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Krak
02-06-2003, 06:01 PM
Which sort of programming do you want to do? Video game programming, or software programming?

abrege
02-06-2003, 06:04 PM
Games, anything else would probably make me bored :D

Krak
02-06-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by abrege
Games, anything else would probably make me bored :D

I 100% agree with you.

Travis Dane
02-06-2003, 06:11 PM
Games, Definetly games. And Graphic-games to be precise,
High end big fat Doom3 engines....That's what i plan to write
later:)

Govtcheez
02-06-2003, 06:12 PM
Games would be fun, although you'd be hard pressed to get into any sort of a job programming games right now (Digipen people can confirm or refute this statement, as it has no basis in actual fact, it's just what I assume) because of how many people are coming out of school looking to get into that.

Krak
02-06-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
Games would be fun, although you'd be hard pressed to get into any sort of a job programming games right now (Digipen people can confirm or refute this statement, as it has no basis in actual fact, it's just what I assume) because of how many people are coming out of school looking to get into that.

Couldn't you buy special hardware that allows you to actually create PS2 games, and create your own games from home? Maybe you could get a good publishing deal if your games are good enough? Of course, it'd be pretty hard to make them all by yourself.

minesweeper
02-06-2003, 06:20 PM
I would really hate to program most games. I reckon a lot of it would be dead boring. The only games I would like to make would be Flight Sims. This is because part of my degree has been on Aircraft propulsion systems and flight mechanics. It would be really cool to use what I have learnt to make a virtual plane behave in the same way as a real one.

Mostly I would love to program user apps like MS Office or stuff like that. I really enjoy programming things that benefit other people in some way or another.

Polymorphic OOP
02-06-2003, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
Games would be fun, although you'd be hard pressed to get into any sort of a job programming games right now (Digipen people can confirm or refute this statement, as it has no basis in actual fact, it's just what I assume) because of how many people are coming out of school looking to get into that.

I'd say it's tough to get in, but not impossible. If you really try hard and devote a lot of time to programming, then there's not much stopping you.

It's not like acting, etc. where you can be extremely good but still never make it very far in the industry. Not as many people want to be game programmers, and only some of them are devoted enough to dedicate a lot of time and pursue a career in it. You also don't really have to "know" anyone to break in. What's more is, you can learn to program and even develop proffessional quality games on your own for very little money. There are free compilers, many professional APIs are free to use, and there's plenty of documentation on the web. It's all about how much time you want to spend. Despite all this, there are few people who have the initiative to actually learn. The few that do and are successful, have quite a good chance of getting into the game industry.

While it's true that a lot of people coming out of college might be trying to get into the game industry, only the ones who put in a lot of time on their own towards programming will have any chance. A degree in computer science doesn't say a whole lot nowadays about the programming ability of the graduate. They have to do a lot on their own, otherwise it just shows that they know the languages, not necissarily how to use the languages.

Oh, and did anyone see the latest rolling stone? There was an article on Digipen talking about how little we get laid, etc. Good ####! :p

Silvercord
02-06-2003, 08:03 PM
I'm glad that (game) programming is difficult enough to weed out the ones that aren't willing to put the work into it. I'd say I agree with you poly about the computer science thing not meaning all that much, but I'm not in college yet so my opinion doesn't really count. I'm hesitant to apply to college at all, I want to just stay home or somewhere and just do programming during the day (wake up, eat cereal, do programming while still in boxers). My main concern is not getting accepted to digipen, but continuing my education at my state school, becoming even better at programming (which is inevitable, because I'm realizing I have the devotion that many others don't) but then not being able to get a big name job anywhere because my school doesn't have the required level of elitness attached to its name, ya know? Oh well, talking about this makes me depressed.

incognito
02-06-2003, 09:20 PM
How about maybe a "both" option, or maybe, "undecided"?

dP munky
02-06-2003, 09:39 PM
>>I'd say it's tough to get in, but not impossible. If you really try hard and devote a lot of time to programming, then there's not much stopping you.

he's right, poly puts in like 20 hour days, i dont think i've ever seen him NOT on the computer....maybe once. but a lot of what he said is the truth, you dont have to know anybody or some secret code, you just have to have a good knowledge of computers, C/C++ (those being the primary languages) it really isnt as hard as you think, most people want to make games but after they find out what its really about they take off, even if you arent the greatest programmer, you can still get internship opportunites, WORK HARD, and move up. it isnt easy work, but it pays off in the long run.

one final thing to end this babbling:
what you put into it is what you get out of it.

SmashBro
02-06-2003, 09:41 PM
If I am not able to get into game programming, I'll be in another profession. I'm not doing any other type of programming. Haven't you ever seen Office Space??? =P

Cheeze-It
02-06-2003, 11:28 PM
Game programmers never get to have any of the fun. If you
want to do something fun in the gaming industry, become an
artist.

Polymorphic OOP
02-06-2003, 11:50 PM
programming is fun, #####!

dP munky
02-07-2003, 12:18 AM
>>Game programmers never get to have any of the fun.

maybe the months and months of hard work isnt, but the payoff is, and if its good enogh you get paid obsene amounts of money!!

nvoigt
02-07-2003, 01:53 AM
What's more is, you can learn to program and even develop proffessional quality games on your own for very little money. There are free compilers, many professional APIs are free to use, and there's plenty of documentation on the web. It's all about how much time you want to spend.


Time is money. You can probably programm a year on a game with free tools and free docs and free tutorials. But who will pay your rent and food and medicare for 365 days ? Time is no resource that comes free of charge.

Polymorphic OOP
02-07-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by nvoigt
Time is money. You can probably programm a year on a game with free tools and free docs and free tutorials. But who will pay your rent and food and medicare for 365 days ? Time is no resource that comes free of charge.

I was implying that it doesn't cost any $$$ directly unlike many other things which often take both time AND money. You can program in your spare time, or during high school while you leech off of your parents money, etc. :p

face_master
02-07-2003, 03:31 AM
Software programming. Game programming sounds fun, but ive found it to be frustating as hell! The satifaction you get from completeting a program which has a pupose and fufils its purpose properly is amazing.

Necrodeemer
02-07-2003, 04:52 AM
Plus with game programming you can't really learn much. But when you are working with expensive hardware, creating software that can interact with different computers over the net, sort through users. Plus with back doors. These are the programs that'll teach you the most about programming, not just focusing on a few different pieces of hardware.

NickESP
02-07-2003, 08:14 AM
I think I have the "drive" to continue with my personal learning of computers and software, but really, is anyone going to employ someone without a piece of paper, no matter how good they SAY they are?

adrianxw
02-07-2003, 08:43 AM
>>> is anyone going to employ someone without a piece of paper

Yes, but it is not as common as it used to be, and certainly with the industry in the state it is in today, there are plenty of unemployed people that do have the paper.

deathstryke
02-07-2003, 09:03 AM
I would program games, but all people seem to want anymore is graphics and I never was one to be impressed with graphics so they end up being a last ditch effort to have something on the screen after everything else is done. That is why I usually stick to utilities of various forms. I also can't seem to figure out how to do direct input from the keyboard for the life of me, which severely limits the usefulness of controls in a game.

Carlos
02-07-2003, 10:24 AM
Cheating, as I'm already working ;)

Planned to work somewhere where my Assembly knowledge would be appreciated, unfortunately didn't find such job.

Now I'm working on a medical software, quite exciting.

Games? It'd be fun, but it's hard to create something new. Those who have great ideas do not have enough financial resources, big company's usually kill one's personality -password: teamwork.

Besides, newbies will start with "else if" and "switch... case", correct silly errors, later on can get eventually higher in the hierarchy and do some design work, and, after many years, become a creative director :)

Of course, things might evolve other way, but usually this is how it works :(

ammar
02-07-2003, 12:00 PM
Game Programming.
But I'm not sure if it's fun or not, because I think it's more difficult that software programming...
But now, I just hope to graduate( I have five semesters, including this one to go)... Then I just hope to have a career in programming, and I won't care if it's in games or software, but if was able to choose I would go for Game Programming.

ober
02-07-2003, 12:41 PM
Software. I've been programming software and I like it. When I can get a fully functional program to do something useful that people can benefit from, it's the best feeling in the world. I don't think I'd get that same satisfaction from game programming, although I think it'd be fun to try for a little.

Silvercord
02-07-2003, 02:59 PM
To be fair both are very similar. You need a very analytical mind and the drive to fix something and the ability to keep cool when you're programs aren't working. This seems to be true for programming and applications programming.




Games? It'd be fun, but it's hard to create something new. Those who have great ideas do not have enough financial resources, big company's usually kill one's personality -password: teamwork.

I don't think having 'good ideas' for games counts for as much as people think it does. A lot of the things that have made games great and/or made people famous was actually being able to implement previously known ideas. For example BSP was not first introduced by John Carmack, it was actually conceived around 1980 by 3 people named Fuchs, Kedem, and Naylor in two papers called "Predeterming Visibility Priority in 3-D Scenes" and "On Visible Surface Generation by A Priori Tree Structures". Likewise the idea of using volumes to generate shadows was first conceived in 1977 by Frank Crow and first implemented on IrixGL, but John Carmack has went ahead with his engineering capability and is the first to offer these things that can run in real time. Bump mapping is another example of this (I think the bump mapping has more of an effect than the shadow volumes do, the extra detail is extremely impressive).

-KEN-
02-07-2003, 03:41 PM
applications/software programming for me. I seem to see a lot of new programmers who just got into it for game programming. Then they find out it's hard and math-intensive and decide to say "Screw it.".

I've always thought applications programming was cooler and more useful. There was a time when I got into game/graphics programming, but now it's more of a "meh, who cares?" to me. I've always been impressed by those who can do it, but I'm just not math-minded enough to get into it, I guess. I dunno.

Silvercord
02-07-2003, 03:57 PM
I'm really really glad that there are a lot of people who want to do applications programming, because I was afraid people ONLY wanted to do game programming (like I said it's difficult enough to weed out those who arent' motivated enough for it). Honestly though, I don't really like competition in the sense that I'm happiest when I can solely concentrate on reading and programming, it's blissful really. You guys know what I mean? I think a lot of people on these boards are extremely bright but maybe the idea of elitism is unsettling (it is for me anyways).
EDIT:


I've always been impressed by those who can do it, but I'm just not math-minded enough to get into it, I guess. I dunno.


Yeah right Ken, I'd be willing to bet you could do any amount of math (IF you really wanted to use it for something). I find a lot of people are intimidated by math, I am, but I also find that if you just take a breath and kinda lay back and try to really figure out 'what's really going on' you can do it (im not saying it's easy).

-KEN-
02-07-2003, 04:08 PM
True, I'm too lazy to do a lot of math. You've got me spot-on there...it's how I almost failed algerbra 2 :) Math is just so borrriiinnngggg...

>>breath and kinda lay back and try to really figure out 'what's really going on' you can do it (im not saying it's easy).<<

True dat.

beege31337
02-07-2003, 06:24 PM
I hate math, and i'm not great at it; but i'm graduating with a computer science degree in may anyway.

Even if you don't like math, but you're smart and hard working you can get through the math classes ( even the crappy ones like Calc 3 and higher ).

and the other thing is is that some higher math is very different then the math you might be used to. Like right now i'm taking a course in Theory of Computation ( it has to do with determining was is mathematically possible and whats not, as well as complexity and automata theory ) and it doesn't resemble anything you would be learning in highschool.

So my point is, don't decide against going into CS just because you don't really enjoy math.

Fountain
02-07-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Carlos
Cheating, as I'm already working ;)



Games? It'd be fun, but it's hard to create something new. Those who have great ideas do not have enough financial resources, big company's usually kill one's personality -password: teamwork.




At last-sense.

Teamwork is the key. Work on these skills as much as your prog skills. It takes big teams YEARS to fully develop and implement a 'top' game.

I hope now nobody believes you go to work on your own and say 'hey boss I made a new doom'.

:)


And are you sure you want to make games? No, I mean really? Just 'cos you like playing them!

Silvercord
02-07-2003, 07:00 PM
I hope now nobody believes you go to work on your own and say 'hey boss I made a new doom'.


I think carmack wrote the software renderers for doom pretty much alone, didn't he?



And are you sure you want to make games? No, I mean really? Just 'cos you like playing them!


As gametuts says, there are people that play games, and there are people that make games

EDIT:



and the other thing is is that some higher math is very different then the math you might be used to. Like right now i'm taking a course in Theory of Computation ( it has to do with determining was is mathematically possible and whats not, as well as complexity and automata theory ) and it doesn't resemble anything you would be learning in highschool.

So my point is, don't decide against going into CS just because you don't really enjoy math.


I like hearing what people who are actually in college have to say about their experience. I'm afraid of having a lot of programming going into it and thinking I'll have not too hard of a time with anything and end up feeling like a, how do I put this, dumb ass

Travis Dane
02-07-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Fountain
And are you sure you want to make games? No, I mean really? Just 'cos you like playing them!

I completely agree on this one, This aggitates me actually,
Everybody says he likes to make a game just because they
like playing one, They don't realize it's just sitting behind a
screen typing all day, Not exactly 7331 is it?

Polymorphic OOP
02-07-2003, 07:56 PM
Hence the dropout rate being so high at DigiPen.

"What, you mean we're not going to be playing games and sitting on our asses all day?"

It amazes me that people can actually enter with a view like that.

Silvercord
02-07-2003, 08:09 PM
That actually makes me feel better that you said that Poly. My problem now isn't knowing what it takes, because I have a very good idea of what it takes (I'm trying to do the 3 plane intersection thing for worldcraft's .map files, and then possibly write some kind of a partitioner, but numbers scare me :() my problem now is wondering how I'm going to fund for all of the keyboards I'm going to break when doing complicated stuff. Did I tell you guys I'm going to silicon valley in san jose california? I got nominated to go to this camp thing over the sumer, I'm very excited (I was going to do digipen's summer course, but no offense project fun looks like it totally blows)

dP munky
02-07-2003, 08:10 PM
>>project fun looks like it totally blows
speaking from first hand experience it does!!!

Polymorphic OOP
02-07-2003, 08:26 PM
Yeah, project FUN is a horrible excuse for a program. If that's what they expose you to over the summer, don't do it. It's that bad.

Comair uses 1st year students as beta testers for it. It's extremely buggy, unbelievably poorly designed, and should have never been released to the public. I was thinking about quitting 1st semester because of it. You go looking for a great education and they throw you a joke of an application like project FUN at you. It's bull####.

This semester, I'm refusing to do any assignments that require project FUN. If they wanna give me a 0 on them I don't really care. There are a many people here that feel very strongly against project FUN, but Comair is a stubborn bastard, so I don't think it'll change.

It's only used 1st year, so if you can go through it grinding your teeth it gets better 2nd year. But I'll say this -- No matter how bad you think project FUN is, it's ten times worse. I could make a better project FUN with my arms tied behind my back and a 6-inch dildo with balls shoved up my ass.

Don't go to the summer project FUN workshop unless you want to get a distorted view of what DigiPen is actually like.

FillYourBrain
02-07-2003, 08:27 PM
it's funny, after 3 years of software development (2 of which are 3d graphics work) I am seriously considering getting out of the field. Not because I don't like programming anymore. But because I want to enjoy it more. When it's work, it takes a little of the joy out of it. I want to come home and write code as a hobby. It's simply not that way now. Sure I take a little bit of time out but not much.

who am I kidding

Polymorphic OOP
02-07-2003, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
it's funny, after 3 years of software development (2 of which are 3d graphics work) I am seriously considering getting out of the field. Not because I don't like programming anymore. But because I want to enjoy it more. When it's work, it takes a little of the joy out of it. I want to come home and write code as a hobby. It's simply not that way now. Sure I take a little bit of time out but not much.

who am I kidding

Yeah, I find that happens with me on a lot of things (i hope not with programming, cuz that would suck). As soon as something becomes work, you don't want to do it as much. Kinda funny how that works. The same project done in spare time is more fun than one that you have to do.

zahid
02-07-2003, 11:13 PM
Definitely Software, Actually I don't like playing games using personal computer, computer is for the betterment of human, to work for human. So many teenagers in Bangladesh use personal computer to play games only.

Silvercord
02-08-2003, 05:13 PM
it's funny, after 3 years of software development (2 of which are 3d graphics work) I am seriously considering getting out of the field. Not because I don't like programming anymore. But because I want to enjoy it more. When it's work, it takes a little of the joy out of it. I want to come home and write code as a hobby. It's simply not that way now. Sure I take a little bit of time out but not much.

who am I kidding


That makes sense, actually. I felt kinda depressed after reading that :( I hope you find a way to make things work for you

EvBladeRunnervE
02-12-2003, 11:11 PM
I personally feel I will go into the game programming field. I know all of the heavy math inclusions, but dont really care as I love math. I am only worried I might someday hate programming(praying that day will never come, but some things happen).