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Aran
10-17-2001, 06:59 PM
DO you think that there is other intelligent life out there in the universe? why? what do you think it will look like? How do you think we'll deal with them?

Garfield
10-17-2001, 07:05 PM
No, I don't believe in extraterrestrial life. It is not in my religion as a Christian.

Troll_King
10-17-2001, 07:15 PM
If you go by statistics taking into consideration the number of planets in our own solar system times the number of other solar systems, it is likely that there are hundreds of millions of other planets. Is there a another planet just like earth? Hard to say, until we acquire some means to check them out.

It's nearly impossible to predict what other life forms might look like because there is a great deal of diversity even on our own planet. However many years ago were the dinosaurs, then humans, and acquatic life and life in between.

I think that this would be a really interesting subject but since we don't have the technology to do any serious inquiry we will have to wait. I wouldn't mind just getting off earth, nevermind other life forms.

gamegod3001
10-17-2001, 07:16 PM
Makes perfect sence for the to be other intelligent life out there. Maybe even for some of them to have to vistited us. I don't know how they would look that would depend on there envorment around them. I think we would as a general population except them if they came in piece. If they atacked then guess what, to bad for them.

Troll_King
10-17-2001, 07:20 PM
... If they atacked then guess what, to bad for them.


Yeah right. I'm sure that they would kick our ass if they have the technology to travel through space and visit us.

EvenFlow
10-17-2001, 07:20 PM
Look into Einstein's works, or Hawkings. I believe in other universes, but I also believe in a universal God.

>>It is not in my religion as a Christian.

I am a Catholic. I can't recall there being anywhere in the bible where it says there is no life beyond earth. What are you basing this comment on?

Troll_King
10-17-2001, 07:21 PM
What are you basing this comment on?


Likely some religious bull**** written somewhere.

EvenFlow
10-17-2001, 07:24 PM
As I said, I can't recall there being any message from God or Jesus, or any Christian church which says there are no other forms of life beyond earth.

gamegod3001
10-17-2001, 07:29 PM
>Yeah right. I'm sure that they would kick our ass if they have the technology to travel through space and visit us.<

Never dought, the power of the humman spirt.

Garfield
10-17-2001, 07:33 PM
> I am a Catholic. I can't recall there being anywhere in the bible where it says there is no life beyond earth. What are you basing this comment on?

I guess I don't really have direct proof of this, but I have thought of this before, of course, and I go back to the creation stories. God created all on earth and humans are the master of them all. Well, the point is "on earth". He didn't create any life forms on other planets. But that is just my interpretation.

Stoned_Coder
10-17-2001, 07:40 PM
The universe is massive beyond all comprehension and it contains billions of stars and galaxies. Our sun is only a star and that provides us with heat and light so it would seem quite reasonable to think that there must be other planets in other solar systems that have the capability of supporting life. So all in all I think it is unlikely that we are alone!

Procyon
10-17-2001, 07:45 PM
I'm rather agnostic about it. The vastness of space says yes, the lack of any evidence of extraterrestrials in our solar system says no. Considering how little we know, we can't even speculate fairly. I suppose the most reasonable thing to say is that there is likely extraterrestial intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, but it's extremely rare; no more than a few per galaxy.

It also depends on what we mean by the universe: everything which we'll potentially come into contact with in the foreseeable future (our Galaxy), the presently observable universe, the entire universe, or the multiverse in either its conceptions as a higher-dimensional structure connected (or not) to our 3/4/11 dimensional universe or as proposed by the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.


As for what they look like, almost certainly nothing like us. In fact, any civilization which we would actually come in contact with would probably be so advanced it would have transformed itself to look nothing like it did originally, simply because supporting creatures that evolved on planets in hostile environments requires far too much effort, and because there are limitations on the creative and calculative power of an organically evolved intelligence. I think a highly advanced civilization would grow so dependent on machines that they would eventually completely supplant the original species. After a point there'd be nothing left for the original species to do; their continued existence would be purposeless.


I think the Christian problem with extraterresials is the whole Jesus-saving-everyone-through-death thing. It would seem to require Jesus being incarnated on each planet individually, and then dying to save each planet individually. Total nonsense. (But then again, so is most of the rest of religion. And in regards to "saving", I'm not even sure that this has been adequatly compromised with evolution, which by identifying Genesis as a myth renders the concept of a fall nonexistent, and therefore making "saving" and Jesus seemingly pointless.)

EvenFlow
10-17-2001, 07:53 PM
>>I think the Christian problem with extraterresials is the whole Jesus-saving-everyone-through-death thing. It would seem to require Jesus being incarnated on each planet individually, and then dying to save each planet individually. Total nonsense.<<

Sigh. Why do people who profess no belief in Jesus or God take the bible so literally?

Procyon
10-17-2001, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by EvenFlow Sigh. Why do people who profess no belief in Jesus or God take the bible so literally?

Well, moderates aren't exactly well known for violently promulgating their point of view, so it's the extremist interpretations that leave lasting impressions. I don't want to throw this thread off-topic, but do you have an alternative explanation? Do most Christians believe that Jesus did not die to "save" humanity? (If not, why do they call themselves Christians; as isn't that what Christ means?)

doubleanti
10-17-2001, 11:37 PM
hmmm... i always thought that we didn't really know... so we couldn't really say... and i think that now...

speaking of dimension... that's another thing... [i'd have to say that seeing time as the fourth dimension was/is a very interesting proposition...] but just as we can conceptualize a quadruple subscripted array in what is essentially a one-dimentional ram-space... other levels of dimension aren't that hard to see organized... [on an hd... :)]

mfc2themax
10-18-2001, 01:52 AM
im pretty confident there is other intelligent life out there......

RobS
10-18-2001, 01:52 AM
If any alien race do get here and want to wipe us out they will have no problem, since they will just be able to drop\launch asteroids on us from far, far away and we'll be able to do very little about it, contrary to Battlefield Earth and Inepencance Day I can't see it being viable to strip mine our Planet, for useful materials, I'd just kill us all so we couldn't expand off our own planet and squander the resources of other planets, that's what I'd do anyway, so says Rob, Ravager of Worlds, Conqueror of Space...

In terms of is something out there, infinite possibilites in infinite combinations, or however it goes. They're probably as planet bound as we are though...

biterman
10-18-2001, 02:22 AM
Indeed.

I don't think this is taking the Bible too literally...


I think the Christian problem with extraterresials is the whole Jesus-saving-everyone-through-death thing. It would seem to require Jesus being incarnated on each planet individually, and then dying to save each planet individually. Total nonsense.

Since, if i remember correctly, Jesus as a man did exist -we know from some roman texts-, what we can't prove is if he really did all those miracles and if he really did resurrect after n days, which is the basis of Christianity.

Generally, the believe in a Superior Being is mainly to explain the unexplainable, atleast that's how i see it. And that is what every believer i have ever spoken to has proven, since they always come back to the same statement: "If God didn't create you -or the universe-, where did you -it- come from?".

Now to me that's just not a good enough argument to believe in anything. Just because i can't explain something doesn't mean i must make up a story with absolutely no empirical basis to explain it for me, and then put all my faith upon it.

Where did the universe come from? I don't know, but that certainly doesn't mean God created it.

As for other living beings, be them intelligent or not, i think that it is possible, maybe even probable but not necessarily true. Because we, and the Earth, might just be a freak occurence; but then again we might not.

adios,
biterman.

adrianxw
10-18-2001, 02:23 AM
The number of communicative civilisations in our galaxy, N is given by the Drake equation...

N = R* fp ne fl fi fc L

http://www.seti-inst.edu/science/drake-bg.html

You can help look for alien civilisations here...

http://www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

Cheeze-It
10-18-2001, 02:57 AM
I saw a UFO once.

Garfield
10-18-2001, 04:35 AM
> Do most Christians believe that Jesus did not die to "save" humanity? (If not, why do they call themselves Christians; as isn't that what Christ means?)

I, as a Christian, believe that Jesus did die to save humanity. Jesus is the Christ and Messiah.

> I saw a UFO once.
Really???

biterman
10-18-2001, 04:52 AM
...and i respect that, but i don't share it.

I also believe that wether it is true or not, it should have no bearing on the possibility of life outside of Earth, because nowhere in the Bible is it written otherwise.

It is widely recognized that the Genesis is simply an elaborate metaphore, certainly not to be taken literally. Therefore, God, if he did/does exist, could only have caused -for instance- the "Bing Bang" and then let things run their course, instead of actually giving the "breath of life" to a pile of dust.

It is my opinion that, looking at things from a truly christian point of view, this is perfectly plausible.

adios,
biterman.

Cheeze-It
10-18-2001, 05:10 AM
>> I saw a UFO once.
>Really???

Yep. August, 1996; The Saturday before I started
9th Grade. It was about 10:00pm and I was laying
out in the middle of the street, looking up at
the stars. I saw a round, brownish, disk-type-
thing flying high up in the air. It was moving
in a straight line, but appeared to be wobbling.
You know, like when you throw a frisbee not-so-
perfect?

Anyway, there was a little light-dot following it.
It looked liked a star, but it obviously wasn't.
I don't now what the light-dot was. A satellite
(sp)? Wierd...

Oh, John Lennon saw a UFO once, too.

adrianxw
10-18-2001, 05:34 AM
>>>
about 10:00pm and I was laying out in the middle of the street,
<<<

If you want to live long and prosper, may I suggest an alternate venue for this activity.

gamegod3001
10-18-2001, 06:20 AM
>I saw a UFO once.
That explains alot :p

Generator
10-18-2001, 07:25 AM
I think there is life on other planets, but I think we are searching for the wrong reasons. We are screwing up our atmosphere and think that if we found some aliens, they will clean it up for us or give us new vaccines. I think we shouldn't waste time trying to contact them until as a planet we accept eachother's diversity and beleifs. Whats the point of making contact with a new lifeform if we can't even get along?

We are reaching a critical point in our evolution and I feel that if we want to succeed, we as a planet should share our technological and biological information and work to save our planet and develop new technologies that will help in our exploration of the universe.

gordy
10-18-2001, 03:35 PM
if we found aliens that could get to us likely they wouldn't want to since either:

1)It would be technologically possible but not really worth the effort, by which i mean we could maybe use ion drives to get to a neighbouring solar systems but the resources required could not be justified.

2)If they could get here without to much effort they wouldn't want to because they would be so far advanced of us we would look like an anthill compared to a capital city.

I also think its unlikely that they would want to kill us for similar reasons. After all earth is relatively small and we already have used many of its resources hence to a low tech (100/200 yrs beyond our level) society the cost of wiping us out is more than its worth to them. A high tech society of course could, but likely wouldn't want to becuase we could never pose a threat. On top of that you likely wouldn't get a high tech society that was too hell bent on war since they would likely burn themselves out before their science reached a high level. Personally i like to think there is a whole whitehall farce going on at our doorsteps (well, across the milky way at least) between various advanced civilisations and we are just totally blind to it. Thats just me though.

And yes, i doubt anyone would want to clean up our atmosphere for us too.

Cheeze-It
10-18-2001, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by adrianxw
>>>
about 10:00pm and I was laying out in the middle of the street,
<<<

If you want to live long and prosper, may I suggest an alternate venue for this activity.

It's a quiet street. And cars are usually
nice enough to drive around me... *Usually*

Aran
10-18-2001, 04:37 PM
may i suggets a good surgeon?

oskilian
10-18-2001, 04:38 PM
I think it's very likely that something's out there, but I also think it's most likely we will never get to meet with them, think about it, how long did it take us to develop?, if there is something out there, it's very probable that they have the same technology as us (well, or an equivalent)

Our universe is a young one.

Oskilian

Aran
10-18-2001, 04:47 PM
our sun is a third generation star, that means that another civilization had approximately 15 billion years minimum to develop to our point. We have been on the earth for, what, not even a million years?

There is a great probability that there are more advanced peoples wandering about space. Who knows what they look like or act like. For all we know, there are little men inside of protons and neutrons and electrons that are actually aliens from a distant galaxy who can travel on photons.

Thantos
10-18-2001, 04:57 PM
Anyone remember the movie "Contact"? I think they said it best (sorry can't remember exact quote)
If we are alone its a big waste of space.

Oh put a tick next to the catholic who thinks there could be life out there.

Aran
10-18-2001, 06:14 PM
If you don't think that there is life out there, then you must be a boneless mass of psychological waste. Seriously, it is a mathematical impossiblity that there isn't any other life out there in the entire universe.

Garfield
10-18-2001, 06:45 PM
> Seriously, it is a mathematical impossiblity that there isn't any other life out there in the entire universe.

How?? There is no "mathematical" way of testing this. It is just a theory many believe.

EvenFlow
10-18-2001, 08:01 PM
>>our sun is a third generation star, that means that another civilization had approximately 15 billion years minimum to develop to our point. We have been on the earth for, what, not even a million years?
There is a great probability that there are more advanced peoples wandering about space. Who knows what they look like or act like. For all we know, there are little men inside of protons and neutrons and electrons that are actually aliens from a distant galaxy who can travel on photons.<<

Well said AE.

Breach23
10-18-2001, 08:20 PM
Hmm...I'd have to agree with Garfield. This is just my belief though. I'm a Christian, and as one, I believe that Jesus Christ would have had to die in front of every civilization in the universe, or they would have to have come and observe Jesus die on Earth. This is just what I believe though.

Natase
10-18-2001, 08:35 PM
Sorry if this has already been said...

The best single piece of evidence proving the existence of other life-forms in this universe is that none of them have ever tried to visit us...

Imagine you're a spectator with the ability to visit earth... would you? Personally I think I'd be worried about the safety of my planet... technology aside, we're a pretty subversive species.

Procyon
10-18-2001, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by Natase The best single piece of evidence proving the existence of other life-forms in this universe is that none of them have ever tried to visit us...

This is a pretty bizarre statement. It is either meaningless (as either the appearance or failure to appear of extraterrestials is evidence for their existence and is nondisprovable), or it suggests that if extraterrestialls did visit us it would disprove the existence of extraterrestrials.

No, if the universe were teeming with intelligent life, we'd see it.

adrianxw
10-19-2001, 02:38 AM
>>> This is a pretty bizarre statement.

Yes! I read that 2-3 times and gave up!

>>> No, if the universe were teeming with intelligent life, we'd see it.

I'm not sure that is true. We might well see it if we were looking in the right places with the right instruments at the right time. At present we look at a few radio frequencies at a few places - I hardly think that is a comprehensive search.

RobS
10-19-2001, 02:52 AM
Any other civilisations out there won't have had a 15 billion year head start on us. They'd also need to wait for a whole generation of stars to form and supernovae in order to provide enough variety of heavy atoms to allow complex life, I doubt that you can get very far along the life\evolutuionary paths with just Hydrogen, Helium and Lithium.

They also have to survive any mass extinction events which may arise over the course of their development.

Most other civilsations will be stuck like us.

Destroying us from space wouldn't be prohibitely costly, it would take one big rock, carefully steered to hit our planet, if they were good enough the moon could be used, although that does require them to get rather close, best to pick one of the huge slow ones in the asteroid belt, attach some engines, write your c code to provide the control mechanism to make it hit us, no more people.

I thought the Sun was a Population I member and hence a 2nd generation star, not 3rd...

Carlos
10-19-2001, 03:17 AM
Well, there is a proof for extraterestrial lifeforms : here I am! :D

Btw, if alliens ever visited us, we probably haven't noticed them (except they want us to...).

And why would they attack us? Just for fun (predator theme)?
We infested / poisoned our planet so much, it wouldn't be of interest for any species (except the Zerg, ev. the Borg ;)).

So, keep poluting!
As long Earth is so trashy, nobody will try to take it from us ;).

We're *really* safe from any extraterestrial threat, check it
here (http://www.palmtalk.com) :(

Procyon
10-19-2001, 11:57 AM
Originally posted by RobS
Any other civilisations out there won't have had a 15 billion year head start on us. They'd also need to wait for a whole generation of stars to form and supernovae in order to provide enough variety of heavy atoms to allow complex life, I doubt that you can get very far along the life\evolutuionary paths with just Hydrogen, Helium and Lithium.There would still be enough of these elements to form planetary systems after only a few billion years. In principle, the first intelligent life could probably have developed within 5-10 billion years of the Big Bang. In any event, a billion plus year headstart is a billion plus year headstart: the advances that existing for almost the order of a million times longer than our civlization must provide would be mind-boggling.

Destroying us from space wouldn't be prohibitely costly, it would take one big rock, carefully steered to hit our planet, if they were good enough the moon could be used, although that does require them to get rather close, best to pick one of the huge slow ones in the asteroid belt, attach some engines, write your c code to provide the control mechanism to make it hit us, no more people.A miniature black hole would accomplish the job in much more spectacular fashion.

I thought the Sun was a Population I member and hence a 2nd generation star, not 3rd...The Sun is Population I, but it's third-generation at least. The first generation was produced within a billion years of the Big Bang, and the stars that produce heavy elements only live for a few billion years at most. The oldest stars in the galactic disk you could probably call second-generation and those in globular clusters first-generation, but all of today's brightest stars would be third-plus-generation.