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DavidP
10-28-2002, 09:30 PM
Is it sad when an engineer doesnt know what order of operations is?

Prelude
10-28-2002, 09:38 PM
>Is it sad when an engineer doesnt know what order of operations is?
Actually, I think it's worse that those silly engineers can't even agree on an order. ;)

-Prelude

Waldo2k2
10-28-2002, 10:22 PM
PEMDAS right?
Parenthesis Exponent Multiply Divide Add Subtract

lol
if it were only as easy as algebra
I think that engineers can run into this problem in any field, such as mechanical or electrical in my situation.
lol

Shadow
10-29-2002, 12:26 AM
Ah, I knew that elementary concept back in, well, almost elementary. :D We're going over it alot in IT Math at Tech School right now. We're creating programming formulas that will work with whatever numbers you throw at them. We _are_ coding them in the old Qbasic, but the programming language that's being used is irrelevant, this is simply a teaching of concepts and knowing how to creat an effecient formula for whatever calculation task you may come along.

Just sit down and think about it, IT Math is a very helpful course in my opinion if you plan on doing some intermediate, or even large scale programming. God knows I've referred to calculators enough already. :)

adrianxw
10-29-2002, 02:16 AM
I'm an engineer and I didn't know what...

>>> order of operations

... is. The term seemed ambiguous to me, what operations? Hmmm, put water in kettle, put lid on kettle, plug kettle into socket, turn kettle on...

Then I saw...

>>> Parenthesis Exponent Multiply Divide Add Subtract

... and thought, ah, he means operator precedence.

The problem with statements such as that you gave is that the terminology is not standard.

moi
10-29-2002, 09:07 AM
are you referring to mathematical operator precedence or operator precedence in various programming languages?

Cruxus
10-29-2002, 01:03 PM
"The order of operations" is what most elementary and high school algebra teachers call "operator precedence" in the simplification of algebraic constructs and is so standard terminology in that regard.

Sad, in my opinion, is when a high school sophomore or junior (15-17 years old) does not know the order of operations. It's an abhorrance when an engineer, mathematician, or scientist does not know the order of operations (algebraic operator precedence).

RoD
10-29-2002, 01:08 PM
Sad, in my opinion, is when a high school sophomore or junior (15-17 years old) does not know the order of operations. It's an abhorrance when an engineer, mathematician, or scientist does not know the order of operations (algebraic operator precedence).


I'm a 18 year old senior and i...well i didn't know it till it was posted and it reminded me. I thought it was some programming thing not the math thing, o well.

adrianxw
10-29-2002, 01:40 PM
>>>
"The order of operations" is what most elementary and high school algebra teachers call "operator precedence"
<<<

... maybe where you are...

Betazep
10-29-2002, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by adrianxw
>>>
"The order of operations" is what most elementary and high school algebra teachers call "operator precedence"
<<<

... maybe where you are...


Ditto...

The foot bone's connected to the leg bone. "operations" is too vague. Operators are not operations... in programming... or in mathematics. Operator precedence is a better term, IMO.

But tit for tat.... who freakin cares. Are you concerned that these engineers do not know phrasology or that they do not understand precedence in equations?

The latter would be sad indeed.... but if it is the former... you are being petty... and naive to think the world revolves around your understanding of the communication process.

salvelinus
10-29-2002, 04:07 PM
English can be confusing or imprecise compared to the precision of math. What's worse is when someone who knows one system but not the other attempts to translate one into the other.
Case in point: question on a VB test today asked which event occurred for a standard form as opposed to an MDI form. Answers A - C were events, D was none of the above, my answer. Got it wrong, correct answer was B, QueryUnload. That is wrong! QueryUnload occurs for standard as well as MDI forms. As opposed to means the opposite.
Maybe that's a digression, but I see that sort of thing all the time. A tech at work once asked "what environment" I was working in. What does that mean? Northern Michigan? Temperate climate? Air conditioned building? Windows 2000? Software Engineering? What? Turns out she meant the primary UNC mapped drive I used. She couldn't communicate that, though, so we went around for half an hour, each thinking the other an idiot.

DavidP
10-29-2002, 05:27 PM
I have never heard it called operator precedence in my entire life until now. The only term I had ever heard was order of operations and PEMDAS. I expected it was the same way for at least all the Americans on the board.

TechWins
10-29-2002, 05:51 PM
I'm with you David

Shadow12345
10-29-2002, 06:40 PM
Honestly it doesnt seem possible that an engineer wouldn't know the order of operations. Don't engineers have to be like math demigods or something (I don't know what a demigod is either).

On the other hand my cousin is an electrical engineer and he is stupid and i don't see how he gets by in life.

MethodMan
10-29-2002, 07:49 PM
Ive always learned it as BEDMAS
Brackets Exponents Division Mult. Addit. Sub

- although I think the correct term for () is not in fact brakcets but paranthesis

Sentaku senshi
10-29-2002, 11:11 PM
> although I think the correct term for () is not in fact brakcets but paranthesis

your right in the fact that () are paranthesis. [] are brakets

as for the order of operation's technigly it should be GEDMAS in witch the G stands for group/groupign symbols. In witch there are 4 main types

()
[]
{}

and

------

adrianxw
10-29-2002, 11:58 PM
>>> I expected it was the same way for at least all the Americans

Well, it obviously isn't.

>>> never heard it called operator precedence

Many books would call it that. I had never heard it called order of operations.

Agreeing with others, the concept is important, and I would expect engineers to get that right, the naming is something I would expect engineers to debate - <fx>looks around</fx> - oh look whats happening here.

dbaryl
10-31-2002, 05:07 PM
I guess I'm simply repeating what has already been said, but as long as the engineer knows the process the naming is almost irrelevant (in this case).

BMJ
10-31-2002, 08:51 PM
BEMDASBEMDASPEMDASEMDAS <- LOL :)

Braces
Exponenets
Multiplications
Divisions
Additions
Subtractions

Brackets
Exponenets
Multiplications
Divisions
Additions
Subtractions

Paranthesis
Exponenets
Multiplications
Divisions
Additions
Subtractions

Exponenets
Multiplications
Divisions
Additions
Subtractions

Braces are supposed to come before brackets, which are supposed to come before paranthesis, but some teachers do it bass-ackwards.

2{[2(x-2)][x(2x^2])}*4