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face_master
10-08-2002, 12:17 AM
I hate having bad teachers that dont know a thing; its so annoying. I swear, at my school (i'm in year 9 at high school) I could teach all of the computer classes and programming classes and I could replace the d***head guy who is payed to manage the school's LAN and the rest of the computer maintainance(sp?), but all he does all day, is delete random student's accounts so they have to come to his office all the time to restore them so they dont realise that there's nothing for him to do there! His office floor is lined with Microsoft Press books regarding win2kpro so everytime he needs to do something, he needs to refer to a book. He's so dumb aswell; hes like 20 yrs old and in the computer rooms there are roughly 35 computers per room and the rooms have 2 power outlets each! Once a fire started becuase of them and they still havn't fixed the problem.

Another thing that annoys me is that to do cs, you need to be in yr 11 and the most advanced thing taught is crappy VB (they start from psuedo code and move upwards)! I asked one of the students why they hadn't moved onto C++ and he said the teacher doesn't even know VB, he just makes them learn it staright from the text book!

And to top it off, i'm the only person in the school (including teachers) who knows C++ or anything beyond VB.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Kupo
10-08-2002, 12:27 AM
it's not normal to know c++ in year 9 ;)

and chill out, dude, those who are going anywhere in the field of computing won't learn anything from school.

well, maybe some obscure MS Excel feature, but hey, that's not important :)

face_master
10-08-2002, 12:29 AM
>> it's not normal to know c++ in year 9
I started C++ at the start of year 8

>> well, maybe some obscure MS Excel feature, but hey, that's not important
wha?

biosninja
10-08-2002, 12:44 AM
I felt just like you do now when I was still in school. the only thing we learned was some crappy excel stuff ans pascal.

Just like mentioned, : "those who are going anywhere in the field of computing won't learn anything from school." - that's true.

black
10-08-2002, 01:02 AM
you are too lucky man, my school even taught us win3.1 and foxbase which are almost rubbish in that year. :(

face_master
10-08-2002, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by vVv
So often pupils clain they knew more than their teachers, especially in CS. C'mon face_master, what are you trying to prove? If they were elite coders, they wouldn't teach you but instead make big money producing real software. I'm not saying that they are elite coders -- i'm saying exactly the opposite! To teach CS, dont you think they should at least know what is in the course? They just say "uh, check the text book" when you ask a question about anything in computers. THEY HAVE ZERO KNOWLEDGE.

Fountain
10-08-2002, 02:04 AM
Maybe they like being teachers?

Kind of a dedicated job you know!

Have to put up with god awful kids all day-I know I couldnt do it.

face_master
10-08-2002, 02:12 AM
>> Have to put up with god awful kids all day-I know I couldnt do it.

Yeah, we do give them alot of s**** all the time :D

adrianxw
10-08-2002, 03:32 AM
A factor which influences the content of hi tech courses, (and leads to them intevitably being out of date), is the ridiculous amount of lead time it takes to prepare a course, and then submit it for approval at various levels. If it is to be a course aimed at a recognised qualification, it can take two years to get it approved by the examination authority. Assuming that there are no major amendments to be made, then the course materials have to be produced and then we are ready for the first syudents to begin, what could easily now be a 3 years out of date course.

I'm not trying to mitigate poor teachers, but the system stinks when it comes to these fast moving subjects.

vasanth
10-08-2002, 06:49 AM
well my teacher has asked my team to do an RSA and DES cryptography implementation on a Linux system using gpp... I was wondering why.. and why we couldnt choose our own project.. Then we later came to know that she is doing her m.Tech and she needs to submit this project by for her SWS Project class.... WHAT CRAP... Hope she dosen come to this forum and read this..... :)

Shadow
10-08-2002, 10:00 AM
> If they were elite coders, they wouldn't teach you but instead make big money producing real software.
good point

> those who are going anywhere in the field of computing won't learn anything from school.
VERY good point

In VB class right now we're making excessive flow charts and program layouts for simple 10-15 line commission/tax/purchase style programs.

30 steps, for 5 lines of code. :rolleyes:

heh, we just told her how to end a switch/case in VB format.

They have to have a job though.
I just wish there was some rule that said normal everyday people can't teach something as technical as, electronics, cars, computers, ETC. If you don't live it, or know every possible damn thing about it, don't teach it.

FillYourBrain
10-08-2002, 10:07 AM
flowcharting and other visual documentation methods are something I wish they taught MORE actually. There should be class hierarchy, program flow, and general architecture documentation in more places than there are. Too often people get out there into the work world and stare at code with nothing to work with because there isn't any documentation.

As far as "those who are going anywhere in the field of computing won't learn anything from school" goes, that's probably not worded exactly right. You will learn plenty in math courses that will apply. The problem is in the computer science courses.

Fredd
10-08-2002, 10:16 AM
I fully agree.. teachers does not seem to know much about anything... our "computer science" teacher (ex. secretary or something) is utterly convinced that hackers are evil beings and that Bill Gates will free the world from these evil doers... the most advanced thing we have done in that class is writing a letter in Word 2000 (!) its kinda annoying learning feauteres that you will never use in programs you hardly ever use. i thank the allmighty computer God for PuTTy and cprogramming.com or else i would have been bored out of my mind :)

Prelude
10-08-2002, 10:27 AM
Most programming teachers do seem to have a lack of technical knowledge which shocks and dissappoints me. I feel that while you don't need to know every aspect of a language to use it, if you want to call yourself a teacher then you should at least be book smart about the language and understand how to use it correctly.

-Prelude

salvelinus
10-08-2002, 11:32 AM
Well, as has been said, good programmers are probably out coding, not teaching, at least HS. Probably some exceptions. But take an experienced programmer who decides to teach. She's probably been working with a language version a release or two earlier than this year's model, so there goes the most current version. Maybe he started out in C but mostly did SOAP or Com applications the last couple years.
Then they have to get certified as teachers, at least in most US states, not all. Then they have to get a job. The school or state has to approve the curriculum. The school has to buy the equipment, software and licenses. This is likely a several year process.
Then they have to teach 50 - 80 kids a day (3-4 classes of 15 - 20 kids). Some of these kids are whizzes. Some are delinquents. Some are thinking about their boyfriend/girlfriend, or the party on Friday, or the zit on their chin. Some just don't learn it as well.
That's no excuse for incompetence, but it's not so easy teaching virtual functions and base class pointers to high school and grade school kids either.

RoD
10-08-2002, 11:47 AM
haha my cs teahcer does dumb **** all the time, for today example, she often mixes up languages as she teaches several bfore our c++ class:

She is talking today and refering to j++ instead of c++ (java), and writes this on the board.

#include <iostream.h>

int main ();

dim intcounter as integer;

for ; (intcounter < 10;;

cin <<"Enter a number";;

cout >>input


Gee can you find all the errors here??? haha i corrected her and she got a little mad. I decided to bring up my game, as many know i had probs with virtual keys, and tried to see if she knew why i had problems. Well i know why but she had no experience with VK's!!!!

Gtk+
10-08-2002, 11:55 AM
They teach UML in school, but most of the students don't take it seriously because they don't have enough experience with OOP. For some reason OOP is a difficult subject, it almost seems that no teacher can teach it.

-KEN-
10-08-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Ride -or- Die
haha my cs teahcer does dumb **** all the time, for today example, she often mixes up languages as she teaches several bfore our c++ class:

She is talking today and refering to j++ instead of c++ (java), and writes this on the board.

#include <iostream.h>

int main ();

dim intcounter as integer;

for ; (intcounter < 10;;

cin <<"Enter a number";;

cout >>input


Gee can you find all the errors here??? haha i corrected her and she got a little mad. I decided to bring up my game, as many know i had probs with virtual keys, and tried to see if she knew why i had problems. Well i know why but she had no experience with VK's!!!!

::senses slight amount of embellishment::

Nobody's that stupid. Maybe if she were typing it up quick on a projector I could see it, but up on a board? No way.


Eh, my teacher isn't too bad, but at least he recognizes that I know more C++ than him. He could whoop my ass in Delphi any day (he keeps referring to it like it's the greatest thing ever), but he's not too great at C++.

RoD
10-08-2002, 02:02 PM
of course i made her look worse then it was :P

for the most part its accurate i added the extra ; on the lines, thats it.

Fountain
10-08-2002, 03:37 PM
I dunno about teachers these days, but at UNI the lecturers are spot on.

They can and do teach you C++ in the correct manner.

Not many students surpass the knowledge of the lecturers-I mean this in the broad term, not like a final year project.(which could be in a diff area of study).

But most teachers hold a degree dont they? Cant remember any being that dumb!

RoD
10-08-2002, 03:39 PM
But most teachers hold a degree dont they? Cant remember any being that dumb!

Degree doens't make u competent.

XSquared
10-08-2002, 04:09 PM
I'm in gr11, and at my school, they teach VB in gr11 and I'm taking Java now in gr12. In both courses, if someone's program wasn't working, my teacher would call me over. He's competent, but lazy.

Cshot
10-08-2002, 04:11 PM
I've never had any incompetent programming professors back when I was in school. They all seem to know their stuff. Maybe I'm just lucky.

skipper
10-08-2002, 06:59 PM
Had a professor, now a friend, that used to mix up languages during lectures. Perhaps because he was teaching so many that they all ran together after a while.

He wasn't arrogant about it in the least. In fact, he encouraged us to correct his errors. Not a bad teaching lesson.

There are lousy teachers just as there are lousy programmers. Welcome to the real world.

"Those who can't do, teach". Right? Bullsh**!

My apologies, but this one is totally unfair to a vast number of professionals who work very hard to impart knowledge to a broad range of students, some of whom are aren't as "sharp" as those running their mouths on this Board. (A little humility might be in order here.)

Next time you find your teacher in error, why not try acting somewhat mature and point out the error, discreetly. You may just find that he/she has more to offer to you than the "boxed" version of the course.

-Skipper

face_master
10-08-2002, 07:23 PM
Next time you find your teacher in error, why not try acting somewhat mature and point out the error, discreetly. You may just find that he/she has more to offer to you than the "boxed" version of the course.Excuse me, but how do I find an error in a teacher's teachings (:D) when they dont even teach us; they just give us the text book and say "Uh...just read the book" and if you ask them a question, their answer os always "uh i dunno" or "probably..."

red_baron
10-08-2002, 08:16 PM
reminds me of my last year computer science teacher, he really tried learning c but he wasn't any good at it, usually for lessons he photocopied a package from a book and told us to take notes on it and do a couple of the questions which where making small programs and stuff. it wasn't half bad if u showed some initative, my teacher actually tried to help as much as he could, though this year he isn't teaching cs anymore. my grade 12 comp sci teacher (presently) refers to me and 3 others as teh elite bunch hehe, we know more than him and he doesn't try to deny it, he actually tries to make us work harder to learn even more thats what i like about him, beginning of the year we had to make a proposal on what we where gonna do this year and what we are planning to learn, i'm actually having lots of fun our projects include learning sockets and making a 'warm up' card game (online) but then... ahh i'm getting way off track.. anyway overall my computer science teachers try to teach us as best as they can but you have to understand that in programming their is always someone younger than you who knows much more than you too.

Shadow
10-08-2002, 09:14 PM
Well, my CS course, isn't pointless for me.
I AM taking something away from it.
Interpersonal Communication
IT Math
Business

As for the computer stuff, I'm going to school to get certified - not learn.

I do get use out of it, as listed above: areas that trouble me/I need brushing up on, and the ceritifaction.
Also, when an instructore needs to be realized of an error, or doesn't quite know how to do something, I point them in the right direction how. This has led me to become a lab rat for one class, but eh, I don't care.

My personal opinion here:
I've stopped being so disappointed at instructors, because there's nothing you can do really. I mean, I'm not going to blame an instructor for not being able to catch onto a new OS in 2 days, because they don't sit in front of the pc 24/7 like some people.
I'm not going to blame them for blundering, or take a little bit longer with a bit of code simply because they do not practice, or toy around in their free time - partially because they have none.

I just gave up on the whole matter, and I'm out of this conversation too! :D

Brian
10-09-2002, 06:04 AM
I started C++ at the start of year 8


I wrote a calculator program in Borland Turbo C in year 5. It sucked big time.

But I thought it was da ****.

Due to my short concentration span and lack of dedication to anything, I'm still an awful C programmer and if someone says "malloc" I freeze, at which point they can hit me with a heavy object, causing me to shatter. Like on demolition man.

Brian
10-09-2002, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by face_master
Excuse me, but how do I find an error in a teacher's teachings (:D) when they dont even teach us; they just give us the text book and say "Uh...just read the book" and if you ask them a question, their answer os always "uh i dunno" or "probably..."

I'm in year 11 now. They let you have VB on your username if you ask, I asked in year 9. It was taken away from my username when I wrote a program to remove the restrictions and allow access to the dos prompt, c drive, run box, right click etc. For some stupid retarded reason, right click is disabled. Annoying.

Faschists

novacain
10-14-2002, 01:52 AM
Lets see I could get Au$40,000 teaching in a HS (if I spent another year getting my Dip Ed) after I spent one to two years outback (before I got posted to a city school).

Then I get to work with a bunch of kids, who think they know everything or have no desire to be there or learn, on PC's I would throw away (with no resources to maintain them).

After all that I get to teach the same stuff over and over, year after year.........


Or I can get twice to five times that as a comercial software engineer and the company will throw the latest technology at me (as I try to invent some new uses for the stuff).




Which would you choose?

Which contributes more to our society?

vasanth
10-14-2002, 01:59 AM
well contributing to society i would say teaching.. since these kids may develop 100 new technology in the future where as you will develop only what one man can do ..

Waldo2k2
10-14-2002, 11:47 AM
flowcharting and other visual documentation methods are something I wish they taught MORE actually.

true, but, it should be taught differently, not ,how was mentioned earlier, on five line programs. That's just repetitive and useless, soon the kids won't want to ahve anything to do with it, what should be done is this: give the students this program:


#include <iostream>
using namespace std;
char SomeVariable[20];

int main()
{
std::cout<<"Enter some text"<<endl;
std::cin>>SomeVariable;
std::cout<<"Enter more text"<<endl;
std::cin>>SomeVariable;
return 0;
}

when they compile there won't be any errors, but, when they run it they'll be prompted to enter the variable once, but the secnod time, the enter more text will flash and the program will exit. That's because of the hanging '\n' sitting in the input buffer, this is where the flow chart comes in handy, that's how you teach somebody how the code really works, that it's not perfect even if it compiles. Then they'll see the real need for the flowchart and really grasp the concepts.
I'm actually being hypocritical here, considering i never actually draw out a chart like i should, but i get the idea, and i go through it in my head, which is fine, the concept of following information aroudn your program is the key. This is what teachers need to mention when teaching flowcharts.