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View Full Version : Ethical Hacking... What is it... ???



jawwadalam
10-05-2002, 01:30 PM
I have learned Something About Ethical Hacking But I could Not get what do this realy mean.. What is "Ethical Hacking"
???????

kermi3
10-05-2002, 01:37 PM
This topic is a great one, but I'm warning up front, please do not post links or other "how to hack" etc things. It's a great topic and I'd hate to have to close or delete it.


One instance of the classical ethical haking i'd guess would be to find then point out security flaws to people, without taking afvantage of them.,

Hillbillie
10-05-2002, 02:27 PM
I think most people here would agree that hacking is not what you are talking about. Hacking is simply experimenting with computers and computer-related stuff, playing with gadgets, etc.

Cracking is the exploration of networks and stuff related to that. Ethical cracking means not doing anything malicious, not stealing important information (credit card numbers, SS#s, etc.), and informing the right person when you find a security flaw or a hole in a system.

Hope that helps.

RoD
10-05-2002, 02:29 PM
Ethical hacking is hacking to gain a positive outcome for anothers benifit. Such as pointing out Secureity holes, helping companies secure, helping people make programs that stop these things.

Basically any form of hacking that is constructive is ethical.

*steps down*

//edit: agreed hill, agreed.

ZerOrDie
10-05-2002, 02:32 PM
someone who participates in the linux project, bsd project or any of the multitude of open source project
someone who investigates computers for security holes and notifies the people at risk before releasing the exploit to the masses

basically someone who tinkers with their computers for positive outcomes

these hackers are know as white hats... and just to clear something up most hackers never refer to themsleves as such other refer to them as hackers...

RoD
10-05-2002, 02:38 PM
Yea i agree, if someone says "i'm a hacker" just smile and say "i'm bill gates : )".

Fountain
10-05-2002, 04:06 PM
are you bill gates?

anyway, if it is illegal to hack/crack, does that make it ethical?

Just because you do no harm, it is still illegal, and how it is ethical is beyond me.

This needs clarification-is it ethical in YOUR mind, or the minds of the people whose networks that have been cracked. Personally I dont think people do it for ethical reasons, just personal gratification.

Mind, does that STILL make it ethical-i dunno

:confused:

icarus
10-05-2002, 04:10 PM
Personally, I'm an ethical breaker and enterer (is that a noun?)

red_baron
10-05-2002, 04:10 PM
i believe some companies pay hackers to try to 'hack' into their comptuers and find faults, would that be ethical hack/cracking?

sopranosomega
10-05-2002, 04:11 PM
I remember a few years ago I saw the rise in news reports on hacking, mainly russians and isralis getting into government computers.

I even reading somewhere that in america they take this very seriously and in some cases involve riot police.

I and a few mates got a little nuts with netbus when it came out.
drove people at collage crazy when we gained control of there mouse or re booted there system :)

guess hacking is only as good or bad as the person doing it.
It's a shame the hacker is protrade as a teenage anti social boy who wants to bring down the whole economy.

face_master
10-05-2002, 07:36 PM
i believe some companies pay hackers to try to 'hack' into their comptuers and find faults, would that be ethical hack/cracking?Its not hacking unless they dont have permission to do it...
hack
v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks
v. tr.
To cut or chop with repeated and irregular blows: hacked down the saplings;
To break up the surface of (soil);

Informal:
To alter (a computer program);
To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization;

Hillbillie
10-05-2002, 08:02 PM
>To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization;<

Wow, some dictionary calls that hacking...what a surprise. Some dictionaries also call weed a very strong narcotic.

SinAmerica
10-05-2002, 10:04 PM
Ethical hacking is "hacking" according to ones (or a groups) own ethics and morals.

Most people believe different things about everything, while no people believe the same thing about nothing.

adrianxw
10-06-2002, 04:10 AM
Here is an example of an ethical crack...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2038756.stm

... there are several related articles about the case, search the site if you are interested.

jawwadalam
10-06-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by red_baron
i believe some companies pay hackers to try to 'hack' into their comptuers and find faults, would that be ethical hack/cracking?
Yes I agreed With You.. I have also read in an Interview of an Indian Hacker Ankit Fadia Who wrote a book about ethical hacking also works for 2 American Companies for Ethical Hacking..
His Home On Web http://www.ankitfadia.com/

Commander
10-06-2002, 09:57 AM
isn't "etical cracker" is a more appropriate term then "etical hacker"? because when u break into a computer(illegely) it's not hacking, it's cracking...just a thought

RoD
10-06-2002, 01:19 PM
i believe some companies pay hackers to try to 'hack' into their comptuers and find faults, would that be ethical hack/cracking?

Of course they do, its in the underground news all the time. The united states goverment recently paid almost 2 million to hackers to try and break into the newest microsoft defense system that they were intending to use.

It was said by microsoft to be the best security software suite ever created, and almost impossible to break through.

It took a 15 year old "hacker" 2 minutes and a well known exploit from windows 3.1 to break into the new system.

Brian
10-06-2002, 01:42 PM
hacker n.

[originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in `a Unix hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker', `network hacker'. The correct term for this sense is cracker.

The term `hacker' also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see the network. For discussion of some of the basics of this culture, see the How To Become A Hacker FAQ. It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic).

It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled bogus). See also geek, wannabee.

This term seems to have been first adopted as a badge in the 1960s by the hacker culture surrounding TMRC and the MIT AI Lab. We have a report that it was used in a sense close to this entry's by teenage radio hams and electronics tinkerers in the mid-1950s.



Source: Jargon File / New Hacker's Dictionary / Whatever it's called nowadays.

drdroid
10-06-2002, 03:04 PM
first of all, why would a hacker go to some large company guy and say; I'm a hacker... pay me to find your flaws. I mean, would he be turned in?

And second ethical and hacker don't really fit together because hacking is.. well hacking... the name ethical hacking doesn't give it justice... it's more like a beta tester of some sort.

-KEN-
10-06-2002, 03:06 PM
Here's the definition I roll by: http://happyhacker.org/define.shtml (if you want to learn about ethical hacking, that's the site you want. Also, you could optionally buy her books - I hear they're great)

-KEN-
10-06-2002, 03:08 PM
Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.

RoD
10-06-2002, 03:44 PM
first of all, why would a hacker go to some large company guy and say; I'm a hacker... pay me to find your flaws. I mean, would he be turned in?

And second ethical and hacker don't really fit together because hacking is.. well hacking... the name ethical hacking doesn't give it justice... it's more like a beta tester of some sort.



1) Hackers don't usually go to the company and request, alot of times the companies find them. Its a symboiosis(sp), as its mutual for both parties. You cannot be turned in for saying you do something, as it is freedom of speech. Should the FBI or someone search your home and seize your pc based on a statement it would be in-admissible in court because u cannot search and/or sieze on the first amendment speech protection.

2) Ethical hacking and hacking are completely different. They fit together based on the actions of the ethical hacker. And as stated before, ethical cracker would be better terms.

Fountain
10-06-2002, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by -KEN-
Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.



But you see, that depends on your definition. Going by the sites you posted maybe not.


It is still illegal to access somebodys network without permission. Check out the laws for this.

Oh man I had the URL for UK examples 'somewhere' .Never mind.

Ethics seems to be a dangerous word. A lot of posters think they can avoid the law because they think it is ethical to hack/crack and not cause damage. They can not.

-KEN-
10-06-2002, 06:05 PM
>>It is still illegal to access somebodys network without permission. Check out the laws for this.

Well, using my definition of ethical/leagl "hacking" you most likely wouldn't be doing this. I guess it also depends on what you mean by accessing somebody's network. If I telnet to a port on your computer at random, it's not even close to illegal.

Fountain
10-06-2002, 06:17 PM
Of course Ken that is true.

I think I shall have to check out some more 'definitions'


Seems to be many grey areas here though.

If you accessed my UNI network, without permission you would be breaking a law (or 2)

Same with a bank, but the law is the same as for accessing the UNI network.

Scanning etc is not illegal as you say.

I am still trying to tie this in with the ethical issue...To me if it is illegal it is UNethical.

Maybe this would be a good project. Got a blank subject coming up that I have to present. Hmmm interesting

jawwadalam
10-06-2002, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Commander
isn't "etical cracker" is a more appropriate term then "etical hacker"? because when u break into a computer(illegely) it's not hacking, it's cracking...just a thought
I must agreed that ethical hacking is not suitable... but ethical cracking is more suitable.. because... I have read the "Hacker is a Person who uses computer network for recreation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
While Cracker is a Person which cracks through Network Security for malacious Purposes...

jawwadalam
10-08-2002, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by -KEN-
Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.
Hacking is not illegal... Because.. what people think... about Hackers They must think that all about the
Cracker ...Because Cracker... Cracks into the Network.. for malacious purposes not a Hacker as you can check on the site of Happy Hacker http://happyhacker.org/define.shtml
....

billholm
10-08-2002, 07:06 AM
Yeah but too bad the name hacker has already been tarnished. I suggest that hackers should wage war on crackers to dignify their image for the non-technical world to see. :D

Govtcheez
10-08-2002, 09:24 AM
> Just because you do no harm, it is still illegal, and how it is ethical is beyond me.

I don't think a law necessarily defines ethics. There's plenty of unethical laws out there, and there's plenty of ethical ones. I think whether something's ethical is inherent to the action; it doesn't matter if there's a law or not.

Guys - we all know the definition and difference between hackers and crackers (technically), but I think it's time to give up this hacker vs cracker crusade, as far as naming goes (if you see a script kiddie in the street, feel free to string him up by his toes, though). Hacker's the common name to everyone who's not directly involved in technology and computers. It's become the correct word just by the excessive use it's gotten.

jawwadalam
10-08-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
> Just because you do no harm, it is still illegal, and how it is ethical is beyond me.

I don't think a law necessarily defines ethics. There's plenty of unethical laws out there, and there's plenty of ethical ones. I think whether something's ethical is inherent to the action; it doesn't matter if there's a law or not.

Guys - we all know the definition and difference between hackers and crackers (technically), but I think it's time to give up this hacker vs cracker crusade, as far as naming goes (if you see a script kiddie in the street, feel free to string him up by his toes, though). Hacker's the common name to everyone who's not directly involved in technology and computers. It's become the correct word just by the excessive use it's gotten.

If Word Hacker's meanings are changed then why the Hacker's Community Insist.. that they are... doing the ethical.. work... Should't they choose any other... word for the Purpose of the Hacking they are Claming...??

damonbrinkley
10-08-2002, 09:43 AM
Hackers have nothing to do with breaking into people's computers....those are crackers. Hackers are people who code to improve software. The media can be blamed for the misconception of the word hacker. People who 'hack' on the linux kernel to make it better are hackers.

jawwadalam
10-08-2002, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by damonbrinkley
Hackers have nothing to do with breaking into people's computers....those are crackers. Hackers are people who code to improve software. The media can be blamed for the misconception of the word hacker. People who 'hack' on the linux kernel to make it better are hackers.

That's All What Do I Want.. Either Should That Media Change the Useage of Word Hacker .. Or.. else.. Hackers Must..Select another.. Word..For Them...

-KEN-
10-08-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by jawwadalam
Hacking is not illegal... Because.. what people think... about Hackers They must think that all about the
Cracker ...Because Cracker... Cracks into the Network.. for malacious purposes not a Hacker as you can check on the site of Happy Hacker http://happyhacker.org/define.shtml
....

Why if it isn't the link I posted myself! See the quotation marks around ethical hacking (they look like this: "") in my post? Gee, I wonder what THAT may signify :rolleyes:

jawwadalam
10-08-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by -KEN-
Why if it isn't the link I posted myself! See the quotation marks around ethical hacking (they look like this: "") in my post? Gee, I wonder what THAT may signify :rolleyes:
Yes I followed Your... Link.. But At this Time I was Insisting.Either The Thinking.. of Media Should Be Changed Or.. Hackers...should change the Way the behave...!

damonbrinkley
10-09-2002, 06:03 AM
Hackers should change the way they behave?? Why should they quit coding and making software better? Just because the media has them confused with people who may use their hacker abilities to break laws?

Govtcheez
10-09-2002, 07:39 AM
> If Word Hacker's meanings are changed then why the Hacker's Community Insist.. that they are... doing the ethical.. work... Should't they choose any other... word for the Purpose of the Hacking they are Claming...??

They could, but to the general public, the word "hacker" has been connected to people writing viruses and illegaly gaining access to systems for quite awhile. It's part of the general public vocabulary now, and that's not going to change. It's just something we have to learn to accept.

Helmut
10-09-2002, 12:22 PM
However, calling criminals "hackers" makes real hackers angry. Eric Raymond, author of “The New Hacker's Dictionary,” argues, “Real hackers call these people ‘crackers’ and want nothing to do with them... being able to break security doesn’t make you a hacker any more than being able to hot wire cars makes you an automotive engineer. Unfortunately, many journalists and writers have been fooled into using the word ‘hacker’ to describe crackers; this irritates real hackers no end...

“The basic difference is, hackers build things; crackers break them.”


from happyhacker.org

btw. I believe is like, hacking without permission is like breaking into your house in the middle of the night, then waking you up and say

"pssst- i found a problem with your house security, its here and there, fix it"

what would you do? Get up and serve dinner to that guy just because he prevented you from a real robbery? or call the cops and turn him/her in for braking into your house?