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CompiledMonkey
08-02-2002, 09:12 AM
I'm talking about as a job. Not as a hobby or for school, but your job title is programmer/developer.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 09:19 AM
yup. 2 years C++ Win32 API. A year of ASP before that.

CompiledMonkey
08-02-2002, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
yup. 2 years C++ Win32 API. A year of ASP before that.

:)

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 09:21 AM
glad to make you happy

CompiledMonkey
08-02-2002, 09:25 AM
I'm just curious. It seems like most people here are younger. I was wondering how many of us actually work in the industry.

Me personally...

Java: 1 year
JSP/Servlets/Struts: 6 months
Oracle/MySQL/SQL Server: 6 months
XML: 6 months
HTML: 2 years
CSS: 6 months
Web Services (in C#): 3 months
C#: 3 months
ASP.NET: a few weeks ;)

I'm debating learning some of the basics to C++. :dunno:

Govtcheez
08-02-2002, 09:26 AM
I am...

Hi chris...

CompiledMonkey
08-02-2002, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Govtcheez
I am...

Hi chris...

:wavey:

How have you been?

Troll_King
08-02-2002, 09:32 AM
I don't understand how you could call yourself a developer if you use the Monopoly OS. It's more like your a Macdonalds hamburger assembly line worker.

CompiledMonkey
08-02-2002, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Troll_King
I don't understand how you could call yourself a developer if you use the Monopoly OS. It's more like your a Macdonalds hamburger assembly line worker.

I don't develop for anything but Solaris/Linux while at work. I'm a Java Developer. C# is a hobby so far.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 09:34 AM
you win. I tinker with toys. 2 years tinkering with C++ toys and a year of tinkering with ASP toys.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 09:40 AM
[mental note] ignore troll_king [/mental note]

Troll_King
08-02-2002, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
you win. I tinker with toys. 2 years tinkering with C++ toys and a year of tinkering with ASP toys.

How exactly have you been going about writing in C++ when VC++6 does not even meet the C++ standard.

I can only see Microsoft developing solutions for their OS, not anyone else. They are the only company with access to the implementation of the OS, and the ability to change it. What you say is true, you are building toys that are heavily advertised and widely disseminated. The new toy they make for you, .net, is what you need to be learning about. Ofcourse you don't learn too much about the implementation of .net, just that it is easier and faster to build new toys.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 09:53 AM
:rolleyes:

golfinguy4
08-02-2002, 09:59 AM
Dean, get a freaking life.

Troll_King
08-02-2002, 10:01 AM
I have an education. I am seeing what will finally become apparent to you in about ten years from now. Maybe a few might catch on earlier than that.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 11:23 AM
what? is linux going to take over? that's fine, I'll work on that system when the time comes. For now, I like being able to work and since there are jobs available for the evil monopoly OS I am happy to work on it.

I like Windows. I have no problem with the way it works. I honestly believe it was good software and not just evil corporate greed that got them where they are. Believe what you want. Again, if linux, mac, solaris etc. can take over I'll be more than happy to jump ship. but then I'm not as one dimensional as at least one person here is.

SilentStrike
08-02-2002, 12:07 PM
You could write standard compliant code in MSVC. Sure, you miss out on some features, no partial template specialization, no template template parameters, screwed up for loop scoping, etc. Still, I've got a fairly simple 7K LOC project warningless in both GCC 3.1 (fairly compliant) and MSVC6, less.

Shadow12345
08-02-2002, 01:22 PM
I am going to take over the world writing programs that control giant robots that destroy everyone that gets in my way...Bill Gates will be my janitor!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Shadow12345
08-02-2002, 01:28 PM
Hey FillYourBrain, where do you work, and like what do you do? What are your hours like? Do you get paid a lot? You said you have been working as a developer for two years now correct? Developers are cool.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Shadow12345
Hey FillYourBrain, where do you work, and like what do you do? What are your hours like? Do you get paid a lot? You said you have been working as a developer for two years now correct? Developers are cool.
if I tell you I might get a visit from one of your giant robots! We can't have that now can we?


I work at a small software company called KamelSoftware. Do I get paid a lot? uh... Sure, No Way, Maybe. I don't know how cool other developers are but I am definitely :cool:

endo
08-02-2002, 01:43 PM
not yet got a job, but desparate to soon before I have to return to a previous profession (chemistry - urgghhh!!!)

Anyone got some good advice for getting jobs in the UK?

Shadow12345
08-02-2002, 01:56 PM
My robots don't currently have any functionality, so don't worry.

What type of software does KamelSoftware create? Games? Webpages? Address books? WHAT? About how much you make, well I know that was a personal question but I always see job offers online that are really high, like 100K, but I haven't actually ever 'met' someone that makes that much. Its like they post those just to make people believe software developers can make a lot, but in reality they don't get paid a lot.

FillYourBrain
08-02-2002, 02:02 PM
well I'm not going to post my salary but lets just say that its not 100,000. Don't expect to make that out of the box. I've only been at this for two years and if you'll notice, those jobs are asking for lots of years of experience.

The company I work for deals with Autocad files. There is a viewing and markup need in the architectural and engineering businesses and that's what we get to do. We view autocad and lots of other files formats. WooHoo! right?

In any case, the whole industry has slowed down a lot a programmers aren't quite as hot a commodity as they used to be. It couldn't last forever right?

zMan
08-02-2002, 03:03 PM
I am a developer. 1 year working with MFC. I think programming with Microsoft Visual Studio is fun. Programming is programming....By the way no I don't get paid "a lot". It is enough to pay the bills though and most of all I have fun doing it.

endo
08-02-2002, 03:10 PM
I don't care whether I'm gonna make millions or 'just enough' but I'd love to have a job doing something I really enjoy.

Klinerr1
08-02-2002, 08:52 PM
I hope linux takes over its the best!

d00b
08-02-2002, 10:37 PM
I think that over the years, the computer using world has personified the issues/faults with Windows architecture to the point that we have an odd select who feel the Windows OS is total ............. well, faulty it may be but it is still quite sophisticated and useful (Linux is quite as well), I like Windows, I also like Linux... and although I have not become a Xen Master of Windows (yet :)) or of Linux (perhaps), I feel a little insulted that you say that Windows developers are hamburger assembly workers Some great computer developments have happened with and through Windows... and I respect it; all in all, I do not feel that Linux will be taking over just yet, personally I think that someone like Symantec should go on a lone mission to develop the base for the theoretical "perfect OS" which will become possible when the age of the "quantum computer" is upon us... I believe that it is only then that any new OS will have the chance take the dominating position in the World-Wide OS industry... oh yea, I've not even finished my first C++ project yet, I have my personal theories about where the software industry is going, hopefully this will help me when I get out of school


Did you know that the city of Chicago just set an all-time Chicago power-consumption record again? yay! that's 3 days in a row!

nvoigt
08-03-2002, 05:35 AM
Yep, developer here.

C/C++, VB, Java, PL/SQL, and recently C# ( a year or so ).

Dean, does your education pay your bills ? When is the time you go totally nuts over another MS product ? Make up your mind, the world isn't black and white or MS and Linux. You need to understand both.

Oh, and Kliner, with your style of writing I guess you won't even get a heavily commandline oriented system like *nix to start up :p

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 12:03 AM
I'm working on in house solutions rather than assembly line solutions. I'm acquiring an education in order to be able to interpret the business environment. I'm not very easily lead by sales gimicks, nor cohersed into supporting monopolies. I have a job and I pay my bills.

FillYourBrain
08-05-2002, 11:50 AM
I remember back in high school where it was a TREND to try to be different than the majority. hmmmm... there's some funny irony in that. That is today's *nix crowd. Not to mention mac people. TK/dean whoever you are, grow up.

geophyzzer
08-05-2002, 02:15 PM
Not a developer title-wise, but its basically what I spend a lot of my time doing. Programming time at work is basically 50% MATLAB, 30% Perl, 20% C++ with occasional Java or *nix-shell thrown in.

My $0.02 on Win-vs-NIX: I don't think Windows is going away anytime soon, and you can do some really, really cool things with the Windows API. Regardless of your feelings about the Microsoft business strategy, they make some very impressive and very widely-used tools. It pretty much all boils down to your target market: if you're writing for yourself or for a very specific group of users, use whatever OS your hardened, prejudicial soul desires. ;) Larger audiences require greater coding flexibility, nicht?

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
I remember back in high school where it was a TREND to try to be different than the majority. hmmmm... there's some funny irony in that. That is today's *nix crowd. Not to mention mac people. TK/dean whoever you are, grow up.

The reason why I use Linux is because I want to have access to the implimentation of the software architectures that I will be building upon. I don't want to program blindly from an interface.

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:01 PM
In addition from an academic standpoint, open source makes the most sense. There is no greater oportunity to learn than to study the actual source code. In this way an individual will not be lead by vendor sales campaigns, but instead be able to put the technology into a context and interpret it for its real worth. I have mentioned before that the solutions are generic.

FillYourBrain
08-05-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by Troll_King
The reason why I use Linux is because I want to have access to the implimentation of the software architectures that I will be building upon. I don't want to program blindly from an interface.What YOU want to do has very little to do with the relevance of an OS that you don't like. And it certainly doesn't add substance to your statement that windows programmers are not developers.

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:09 PM
I find that MS developers are similar to end users. They are 100% dependent on the vendors architectural solutions, or plumbing. Instead of working with architectures you are always working with an interface, in a tightly controlled environment. In other words, about three quarters of the application is already decided for you. I don't think that MS developers know what they are doing.

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:13 PM
You can't learn anything that way. You are letting the MS employees/developers do all of the research, make all of the decisions, and do all of the real programming. There is no room for original development.

Waldo2k2
08-05-2002, 03:15 PM
I'm currently still in high school, but being the only one that's computer savvy in my school (very small town, only 300 peole in the high school) i've been priveleged with creating programs for the school. Our principal was formerly the vice principal of a larger district...and has agreed to help me shoot the same idea to his old school (of course i'd have to be paid for that job ;)) I'm a electrician by summer job at a company that does automation solutions in northern illinois. I've gotten paid the last three weeks however to create a program, plus some overtime to debug the company's newly released website.

Languages known:
HTML:1 1/2 years
CSS: 1 year
JavaScript:1 year
DHTML(makes me sound more intelligent, just really a mix of the three previous): 8 months
Perl: 10 months
Java: briefly a few months ago
C: 6 months
C++: 6 months
Flash: 1 year
Visual Basic: 8 months
PHP: 8 months
ASM: 1 month
Basic: needed it for a week on some old computer @ work
RSView: 8 months
RS Ladder Logic: 2 years (haven't used it for about a year though)
XML (including Schema and the like): 7 months
MySQL: 8 months

FillYourBrain
08-05-2002, 03:15 PM
That makes as much sense as the following:

"I find that artists are overly dependant on the paint that is provided by some company as a solution. They are provided the pigments without the ability to modify the chemical makeup." - Troll_King's *******twin

"I find that carpenters are not real carpenters unless they've built their own hammer. Those that use hammers from evil Craftsman are slaves to a tightly controlled environment provided by a vendor" - Troll_King's *******twin

oh and the most rediculous

"Troll King has a brain"

SilentStrike
08-05-2002, 03:18 PM
He is a troll. Two weeks from now he will be calling Linux users communists.

FillYourBrain
08-05-2002, 03:18 PM
out of curiosity TK, did you wire your own processor? I hope you aren't a slave to the inner workings of an intel processor!

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
That makes as much sense as the following:

"I find that artists are overly dependant on the paint that is provided by some company as a solution. They are provided the pigments without the ability to modify the chemical makeup." - Troll_King's *******twin

"I find that carpenters are not real carpenters unless they've built their own hammer. Those that use hammers from evil Craftsman are slaves to a tightly controlled environment provided by a vendor" - Troll_King's *******twin

oh and the most rediculous

"Troll King has a brain"

MS's decisions are regulated by profit. They want to create as much hype as possible for their products and if you can not interpret what they are selling you than you might as well empty their wallet, because you have no choice. The actual solutions have been around for a long time. MS has not done very much original work, sure, there are some original features, however most of them are natural extensitions of designs that were established years ago. They also build ontop of previous technology using generic solutions, for example a proxy that allows distrubuted .net objects to communicate with COM objects. In time, I want to emphasise the solutions that are being used instead of the marketing hype. Learn how to program, and don't just follow technology solutions blindly. You need to understand what is happening underneath.

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by FillYourBrain
out of curiosity TK, did you wire your own processor? I hope you aren't a slave to the inner workings of an intel processor!

I don't deal with hardware architectures because I do not have the knowledge or the financing to do that kind of work, I wish I could though.

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 03:29 PM
It works like this, here is the layering:


Solutions
Software Architecture
Hardware Architecture


(The constraints are vertical)

Inquirer
08-05-2002, 04:17 PM
TK, have you ever stopped to think about the following:

Many of the programs that can be programmed on windows can also be EASILY ported to linux?

Or, that some of us do not have the permission to turn our computers over to linux?


And another thing... Just because i am developing for my windows comp and my mac comp doesn't mean i don't want to have linux. I would love to have it. But it is people like you that make it look like linux is a "windows-hater" OS. it also makes linux users look like a joke. And worse, it makes linux look like a joke. So shove your opinions until someone asks you or you can present them civilly(look it up in a dictionary, or copy/paste it to dictionary.com).

Inquirer
08-05-2002, 04:31 PM
I'm working on in house solutions rather than assembly line solutions. I'm acquiring an education in order to be able to interpret the business environment. I'm not very easily lead by sales gimicks, nor cohersed into supporting monopolies. I have a job and I pay my bills.

Like has been said, you need to be more open minded. Even sympathy would be a change. No where have you shown a concern for anyone but you. If you have, show me, but i won't expect it soon.

And, if you want people to sympathize for YOU, you probably better get working on that in-house solution everyone needs, a subliminal messaging virus.

Uraldor
08-05-2002, 04:50 PM
Yup, I am.

FillYourBrain
08-05-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by Troll_King
MS's decisions are regulated by profit. They want to create as much hype as possible for their products and if you can not interpret what they are selling you than you might as well empty their wallet, because you have no choice. The actual solutions have been around for a long time. MS has not done very much original work, sure, there are some original features, however most of them are natural extensitions of designs that were established years ago. They also build ontop of previous technology using generic solutions, for example a proxy that allows distrubuted .net objects to communicate with COM objects. In time, I want to emphasise the solutions that are being used instead of the marketing hype. Learn how to program, and don't just follow technology solutions blindly. You need to understand what is happening underneath. wow, I've seen this before. You posted this EXACT same paragraph elsewhere. are you just copying and pasting from some common troll source?

golfinguy4
08-05-2002, 09:13 PM
U, are you a teacher, or app programmer, or both?

Troll_King
08-05-2002, 11:57 PM
The only source that I pasted from is the source of truth, knowledge, justice, and the LORD God!

Personally I don't care what you use. I have my views and I expressed them and than I responded to attacks. You can feel whatever you want. I live in a free country, and I'm a freedom fighter. If you don't like it than that's too bad.

endo
08-06-2002, 04:08 AM
55 % are programmers, didnt think it'd be that many....