PDA

View Full Version : Webmaster - 'c#'



Pages : [1] 2

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 12:56 AM
Please allow us to study this language here on the new board. I know that there will be a large demand for C# and since it is a cousin of C++ it is appropriate to adopt it here. They have a c# board at the dreaded programmersheaven website but that place didn't completely survive Y2K, some dungeon it is. Please set the standard. Please grant this one wish, I beg you...

I also promise to become more pleasant. This will help the children, not me. That is all that I want.

Languages like C/C++ are the basis of procedural and OOP learning, however many corporations are using internet technology and there is at present needs that can not be completely satisfied by C and C++. It is difficult to deny the popularity of Java. What a great benefit it would be to offer a board that took advantage of the newest technology of the computer industry leader Microsoft.

If it is your policy to only facilitate learning of languages supported by ansi.org and an officail standards committe, than I ask that you become generous in spite of this because what is also improtant is that the programming skills we learn apply to the demand for newer, more popular languages. Although it is not your responsibility to help the world although in no small measure you continue to do so. This is something that I think would be well recieved. I think that C# will be exciting, powerful, efficient and more than anything, it will apply to all the latest systems that will be developed. Lets not wait too long on this.

Cprogramming.com is more valuable to students than most people would realize. I can directly see the positive results of the knowledge that I have acquired by comming here. I think that there will be plenty of great programmers come out of this place. How could it possibly hurt to open the gates to new technology that resembles what we have now and can be adopted very naturally, but is functional in ways that C/C++ can not be at this present time.

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 01:26 AM
Dean pushes pro-Microsoft stuff again.

Whats next, "A VB Forum for C programmers?"

Fordy
08-11-2001, 03:26 AM
Well personally I have been dying for a Q-Basic board for quite some time now............

C# - Nah, we sould wait a while.

We've just got a Linux board - and thats fair enough as there are loads of Linux users on this board. As C# is not yet released (Yeah I know about the beta version dean), we should at least wait until a proper compiler is released.

gamegod3001
08-11-2001, 04:37 AM
Witch_Craft/Dean/Sunlight stop pushing C#, I don't want to spend a $billion zillion on visual stdio

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 11:23 AM
Q-Basic doesn't have anything to do with C/C++. On the other hand C# is a very easy transition from C++, infact it is 80% designed from C++.

Also this language is what people in computer industry are going to be using. Lets get a modern powerful language here on this website. I'm certian that it will be very popular. Also, you will be able to afford VS.NET. There will be a free version just as there is a free version of VC++6

Fordy
08-11-2001, 06:01 PM
>>Q-Basic doesn't have anything to do with C/C++.

That was a joke if you had not noticed

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 06:22 PM
>infact it is 80% designed from C++. <

Ummm... okay.... have you even LOOKED at C#. Its closer to Java than it is to C++....... I think Microsoft just put "C" in it, so developers like you would get fooled into thinking its close to C++, and adapt it.

Besides C# so far is not a standard, once it is, and it runs on every platform, then we can have a board about it....

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 06:37 PM
You have your Linux programming board so go post something over there and don't be a prick.

According to the MS team it is heavily influenced by C++. Yes I have looked at it.

Also, my arguement is that you do not have to wait. The board should go up right now.

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 06:43 PM
>You have your Linux programming board so **** off now, go post something.<

Ohhhhh... looks like Witch_King is ........ed off.

>popular. Also, you will be able to afford VS.NET. There will be a free version just as there is a free version of VC++6<

You still havent told me where you heard this. FREE version of VS.NET? You must be really brainwashed.....

And seriously learn C# before you actually make asumptions about it. I've been programming with it for over 6 months now, and its definatly more like Java, than C++. But of course you wouldnt know that, because you barely know either language.

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 06:51 PM
>According to the MS team it is heavily influenced by C++.<

I've heard that a thousand times from them as well... am i stupid enough to actually buy it? No.
Microsoft would never say its based on Java, but everyone knows its sole purpose is to get rid of Java. And if you have actually looked at the language fully, then you would notice how similar the two languages are.

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 06:52 PM
I have heard this news from a Microsoft newsletter. Apparently beta 2 is available free with the purchase of a monthly computer magazine, title(s) appearing in their September issues. Based on this information, it is my conclusion that Microsoft will follow the pattern of VC++6 and it's free compiler editions that are used by publishing companies to promote their books.

As for Linux versions which you should be concerned about if anything, I've heard that they will also be available soon.

I have absolutely no desire to learn Java, when I can invest in C# which is a better language in my opinion. I can compare it to C++ just fine and from what I've seen Microsoft is absolutely correct in their descriptions of it's many similarities to C++.

Repalace Java? I have no idea what this means. We'll see what happens, let the people decide for themselves.

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 06:59 PM
>Apparently beta 2 is available free with the purchase of a monthly computer magazine, title(s) appearing in their September issues. Based on this information, it is my conclusion that Microsoft will follow the pattern of VC++6 and it's free compiler editions that are used by publishing companies to promote their books. <

BETA's are always free.... if thats what you mean then yes, it is free. But of course the FINAL release will never be free. Those "free" compiler editions included in books are severly limited, so whats the point of using it?

While i prefer Linux now, remember, my name IS mfc2themax, i have been programming on Windows for years now (not professionaly anymore though, used too, im now mainly involved in project cordination etc. etc. "Group product manager")

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 07:01 PM
>As for Linux versions which you should be concerned about if anything, I've heard that they will also be available soon.<

No i believe a version of the .NET runtime is being ported to one of those BSD types. Microsoft is trying to limit Linux from growing, giving it .NET support would be a horrible blow to themselves, it makes no sense.

mfc2themax
08-11-2001, 07:04 PM
Another thing .NET will limit most of itself to Windows. Most highlevel services will only be offerd on Windows Platforms.

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 07:06 PM
At this time as most everyone knows, the commercial version is not available.

They are not going to give the commercial version out for free. Microsoft is not open source. They pay their programmers. I'm refering to introductory editions, such as VC++6.0 that have been available for some time now. Books are not too limited. If you buy them, they will most definately produce more of them to sell. For someone serious about programming, it should not be too much to ask them to purchase a book, otherwise if it was offered for free on their website they would get a bunch of non programmers downloading it only for the purpose of downloading anything that they can get their hands on for free. This would tie up other services.

-KEN-
08-11-2001, 08:10 PM
you're really into MS stuff and you buy into whatever they say without a backward glance, dontcha? this from the person who says that if you just follow people your life will amount to nothing, right?

no-one
08-11-2001, 08:11 PM
thats so true...

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 08:50 PM
This is a serious issue here and it will benefit many people. Please do not be so childish on this thread. Keep it clean. I'd be happy to talk trash on another thread.

Nick
08-11-2001, 09:36 PM
The place to get help on c# is at the "Evil Empire's Programming Board" www.codeguru.com

gamegod3001
08-11-2001, 09:50 PM
>p Also, you will be able to afford VS.NET. There will be a free version just as there is a free version of VC++6<
>I'm refering to introductory editions, such as VC++6.0 that have been available for some time now. <

Um, one thing about those introductory editons, the reqire the compiler to work, or a message box pops up telling you it was made in VS.Net

That is not profesinal.

Flarelocke
08-11-2001, 10:34 PM
Java was meant to be a proprietary, cross-platform, object-oriented language.
C# is meant to be a proprietary, cross-platform, object-oriented language.
The difference is that Java was made by Sun and C# is made by Microsoft. That's what is meant by "replacing Java"

It appears that you are the only person who is concerned enough with C# to consider a forum worthwhile. If anyone else is interested, say so.

Unregistered
08-11-2001, 11:20 PM
Here you go. Look at Visual Studio.NET accademic version. Comming out by the end of the year:

http://www.codeguru.com/announcements/VSNETAcademic.html

I would also like to see a C# board here.

Witch_King
08-11-2001, 11:34 PM
There you are, an academic version is on the way. It sounds quite good to me.

Microsoft his preparing for I64 technology. This is a major strategy of .NET. I don't think that Microsoft is all that concerned about Java. They have their own plans. Visual C++ is going to be history because it will be replaced by C#. The elements that make up .NET will become more apparent in the near future. Microsoft is upgrading it's technology, you can not stop that from happening. The .NET framework is built right into the operating system starting with WinXP. If you don't like a C# board than don't use it. Why try to restrict other peoples freedom? .NET is going to be popular, it is exciting new technology and it is totally unrepresented here at cprogramming.com. I think that is an aweful shame.

Also, I am not surprised that Linux adherents do not want to see C# encroach upon Java user territory, mainly because they cheat, however what is done is done. You now have a Linux board. Why don't you concentrate on that?

I'm sure that everyone knows that if a C# board was created than it would attract a lot of attention. This is the time to take advantage of 98% of operating system technology because here we have a new board. I mean, DOS does not even exist in a strict sense any more and there is a board for it. Windows programming will be replaced by C# because VC++ is not the native language of .NET. There is every reason to invest in a C# board and not to wait because literature has been released, the betas are now available to the public.


http://www.softsteel.co.uk/tutorials/cSharp/cIndex.html

Here is an online tutorial. Lets get started:

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 09:03 AM
Um, serious issue? Dean; it's programming. Not even that, but a strange new language that microsoft has invented which isn't even really new, it's just a combo of C++ and JAVA created to further tighten their stranglehold on the computer market. No, I don't really have anything against MS, and I think that Linux is mostly a joke. I could care less about C# or VS.NET. I'll continue my programming with windows in C and bet you that I'll most likely never have to learn C#. I may learn C# and JAVA as more of a curiosity than to get any real programming done.

I think that Dean makes you laugh harder than anyone else here (even if he is trying to be serious...). I mean, you must have a golden idol of Bill Gates on your dresser, dontcha?

zen
08-12-2001, 09:23 AM
Visual C++ is going to be history because it will be replaced by C#.

So not only are Microsoft trying to kill Java, but they're going to abandon there implementation of C++ in an effort to kill C++ aswell. That's news to me, the bastards.

doubleanti
08-12-2001, 12:09 PM
I can directly see the positive results of the knowledge that I have acquired by comming here. I think that there will be plenty of great programmers come out of this place.

i hadn't read the entire thread, but so far as this goes, i couldn't agree more! :) i've learned (and continue to learn) _so_ much. thanks you guys!

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 02:01 PM
This is a good place to learn. That's why it would be nice to be able to stay here. I'm currently spending time on C++ and will do so for the next 8 months, but I'll also be looking at C#. The board selection here is very old. You still have DOS. At one time I figured that I would move onto Windows next but it will also be obsolete. That means that there will not be any place to go here, everything being too far behind technology.

rick barclay
08-12-2001, 06:46 PM
>I also promise to become more pleasant<

>...and don't be a prick.<

And will the real witch_what please stand up!

rick barclay

rick barclay
08-12-2001, 07:06 PM
Witch_King: I have a Visual Studio.NET Forum
set up at flashdaddee.com. You
are certainly welcome (as you are
here) to post there. (More shame-
less advertising.)
What you could do is encourage other
C# advocates you know of to post
there. Who knows, a little spark
might make a big fire, dude.

rick barclay

Witch_King
08-12-2001, 07:10 PM
If you want to do real shameless advertising Rick, than make your website URL part of your signature that will show up underneath every post you make.

I'll keep an eye on your website and make a few visits but for now this place gets a lot more traffic. That's why I want this Webmaster to recognize the need to a .NET board.

-KEN-
08-12-2001, 08:19 PM
There's no _need_ for it. It hasn't even come out commercially yet! for all you know it's going to be a major flop.

nvoigt
08-13-2001, 04:27 AM
It appears that you are the only person who is concerned enough with C# to consider a forum worthwhile.

No. I'd like a C# forum too.

*MarksThisDayByA_HUUUGE_RedCrossOnHisCalendar*

Wow... I'm on the same side as Dean ;-)


Visual C++ is going to be history because it will be replaced by C#.

No... C# aims more to replace VB and Java. It's easy to handle,
Object Oriented, hides much stuff from the user, just as those
languages do.


it's just a combo of C++ and JAVA

Though it looks this way, it is not. It hasn't been finalized yet,
so it could change every moment, but from what I have experienced with
it, assuming it is released for Linux, it's all Java *should* have
been. A Real OOP language that has all the useful language features.

Just one example: Define a constant Object in Java. Try it. :eek: :eek:
( Hint: Get hold of that pack of Kleenex your girlfriend used
last time you watched Titanic, after 20 minutes you will need it )


for all you know it's going to be a major flop.

For all we know, it's a great language. It's marketed by Microsoft.
Thats two points for success. I mean, Microsoft sold ME. :(
They will sell pink elephants if they have to. Successfully.

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 12:21 PM
I read a chapter from some .NET book, I forget the title, but it was a book by Sams publishing, it said that C# will compete with Visual Basic and likely win the battle. Programmers will use VB for certain high level needs but that's it, and on the other end of the spectrum, all low level work will still be done in 'C'. That means the majority of programs will be done in C#.

I've also read that C# will be faster than JAVA. The reason has to do with the fact that JAVA compiles to Byte Code or something of that nature, while C# can be compiled so that it is OS specific or else an intermediate language run time. I don't understand all of this stuff yet but the point is that C# will be a feasable choice for games.

Govtcheez
08-13-2001, 12:22 PM
That'd be great - Microsoft's own products competing against each other...

minime6696
08-13-2001, 12:33 PM
People on this board have created stupid arguments, not as stupid as KEN and I, but very stupid. This is bvy far the stupidest. C# and BASIC and all of that bullcrap was made in C/C++, the 'newest and popular' is not allways the answer. What abot makking Java2 or somethin' oh ........, noone knows C++ anymore, oops no more anything. Let me tell you something, Microsoft is ahead for a few reasons:

1.) Bill gates
2.) Not being idiots
3.) Knowing the best, not 'latest' so they could set what the 'latest' is, as our languages progress, our 'scope' gets smaller and smaller, Java is just a class displayed by a browser, not even an app, and with no control, browser written in C++. C# is pretty the same, these are 'web languages'. In my opinion we dont need anymore hard languages like C++, C/c++/ASM are good enouf, no more needed, the web on the other hand needs billions of ........s being developed all the time, becouse they are just not the same creative thinkers the makers of C++ where, they dont think of the whole scope of what needs to be done, basically, web langs have thier place, on the internet, NOT HERE.

BASIC, Begginers Symbolic Instruction Language (I learned that from DB forum, lolz) that doesnt even fit with 'BASIC', but w/e. BASIC is for kiddies and utter newbies. I think they are for the peeps who

A.) Want to make a program in 1\2 a second
B.) Can't figure cpp

I think that adding those other boards in is just ruining one of the last sierious places for real programmers on the net. If someone makes BASIC in BASIC, then I will be satified its an okay lang, but I KNOW BASIC is made in C++, and its not even that hard in cpp to make langs like BASIC, in BASIC,,,, lolz thats another story! :eek:

So lets keep this a nice place to ask Q's about real dev crap so Microsoft doesnt take over the words cuz they are the only ones that know real stuff, becouse we where all such lazy cows we forgot it all.:confused:

SPH :rolleyes:

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 01:08 PM
I didn't create this thread so that people could give theories or advice, although that was bound to happen. I seriously want a C# board. I hope that the webmaster will respond.

Facts about C# are welcome. Please site sources.

I don't want to criticise peoples comments, but lets take this seriously from now on.

-KEN-
08-13-2001, 03:38 PM
Oh well, I guess if C# even makes a blip on the radar, you have to give in that Ms has done their marketing homework, and it'll just become another language...as much as it pains me to say it....dean's.......rrr....iii...ggg....h.....t.... .AUGH!!!!! I never thought that I'd ever have to admit it. A C# board wouldn't be a bad idea, but let's wait until it actually comes out commercially and all...

Does the ground seem to have gotten colder to anyone else? (IE: hell has frozen over...)

Flarelocke
08-13-2001, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Witch_King
I've also read that C# will be faster than JAVA. The reason has to do with the fact that JAVA compiles to Byte Code or something of that nature, while C# can be compiled so that it is OS specific or else an intermediate language run time. I don't understand all of this stuff yet but the point is that C# will be a feasable choice for games. Bytecode is an intermediate language. The JRE translates that bytecode into OS specific executable code. If C# can be compiled to be OS specific, it's no improvement on C, since if it's written correctly, C code can be compiled the same way. If C# translates to an intermediate language, it's no better than Java, since Java does the same.

Perhaps C# uses a lower level intermediate language(which makes it faster), or perhaps the gimmick is that cross compiling is part of the compiler.

My bet(this is all speculation) is that C# compiles to a language whose format is extremely similar to x86's executable code, but with escaped system calls. That would make C# programs run much faster on Intel/AMD chips, but probably won't be on Motorola or other chips. That would make it fast enough to run games, and would be cross-platform given that a program similar in function to WINE could change the system calls and alter the instructions to fit the particular OS.

If that's true, it would make Microsoft seem more friendly to their best-publicized competitor--Linux--while at the same time reduce the viability of the OS that actually has the greatest number of users(okay, granted, the statistics are debatable)--Mac. Very smart move. Excellent play on Microsoft's part.

And since Linux didn't need C# in the first place--WINE is very similar to a program that would be needed to run it, and it runs normally compiled x86 programs(granted, C# will be able to run on SPARC and ALPHA chips, so that's a plus over WINE, but the speed decrease may eliminate any potential benefit it might have)--Linux will gain nothing from the deal, even though to the uniformed public, it seems like a magnanimous gesture on Microsoft's part.

But this is all speculation. It does give me some interesting ideas though. This definately warrants further consideration.

Nick
08-13-2001, 05:37 PM
I'd like a scheme forum :) What about


objective c that has a big c in it's title too.





Now Microsoft wants to go after the students! The first step in Microsoft's Plan Of Domination is to get the AP test in c#. No, Bill Gates certainly doesn't want java or c++ being tought in our schools.





>> I read a chapter from some .NET book, I forget the title, but it was >> a book by Sams publishing,


Jessy Liberty ?





Dean have you coded Hello World in c# yet?

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 05:44 PM
Nope, I don't have VS.NET quite yet, because it is in the mail. Soon I will have it though. I am concentrating on C++ at the moment.

It is very obvious that C# will appeal to a wide audience, including myself. I think that there will be many programmers wanting to find information about it. To tell you the truth, I went to the bookstore and seen the selection of C# and .NET books available and decided to wait for another month.

In terms of C++, I have written a 'hello world' program in C#. Anyway I'm sick of hearing Microsoft bashing from Linux people. I don't see anything wrong with Microsoft offering a compiler for students.

I'm not about to just leave this board just like that. I will work with C++ for some time, about 6-8 months, but I am 100% positive that I'm going to migrate naturally to C#.

SilentStrike
08-13-2001, 05:55 PM
This is cprogramming.com. Look at the name. It's not a general programming site like programmersheaven.com.

This website is dedicated to C/C++... I don't see why that should change.

Your only arguement for C# is simply that is is similair to C++. If that argument was sufficient for having a dedicated board, Java should have a board here as well.

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 06:02 PM
.NET framework is embedded into WinXP and all subsequent operating systems. It is also an API, not just a language like JAVA.

SilentStrike
08-13-2001, 06:21 PM
Java has an accompanied API, with a huge featureset. It has incorporated classes that do things as practical as compressing/decompression zip files.

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 09:01 PM
What you're talking about is quite a bit different but I don't see why there can't be a JAVA board. Get rid of the DOS board which is completely useless, and put up JAVA and a C# boards, and make everyone happy.


C Board (C99)
C++ Board (ISO/IEC 14882)
Business Apps (Java & .NET)
Game Board (C,C++,Java,C#)
Linux Board
General Discussions Board

gamegod3001
08-13-2001, 09:13 PM
Witch_King you forgot the Game Programming Board

this is how the boards should be done

General C++
General C
Game Programming
Windows
General Discusions

and this

General Programming
-this board is for none windows oses and other programming languages.

One thing I like to point out ( My computer will most lickly not run windows xp)

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 09:20 PM
You should take your computer and throw the whole thing in the garbage.

gamegod3001
08-13-2001, 09:30 PM
You should take your computer and throw the whole thing in the garbage.

Great Idea Send me about 2,000 dollors us to replace it:)

Witch_King
08-13-2001, 10:32 PM
Yeah, that would be a great idea. Maybe we can all send $20 or something.

Better yet, lets all send the Webmaster $20 so that it can buy a new computer that will run WinXP and use .NET. Hey lets use .NET technology to build the next version of this discussion board. We can even sell t-shirts and coffie mugs, what do you think?

SilentStrike
08-14-2001, 12:02 AM
Hi, my name is clue? Have we met? Didn't think so ;).

nvoigt
08-14-2001, 04:33 AM
Java is just a class displayed by a browser, not even an app,
and with no control, browser written in C++. C# is pretty
the same, these are 'web languages'.

uhm... excuse me ? Have you even tried to write an app in Java or C# ???
You are talking about applets in Java. A small part of the language,
a feature if you want. It's not even possible to run a C# app in a browser.
You can write 'codebehind' classes for aspx in C# just as in VB or Javascript.
But even then, if you had read about it you would know that C# is even in
this case a server side language. Not client side ( browser ).

Almost every app that can be written in C++ can be written in C#.
C++ will be faster at runtime, while C# will be faster in development.
Same as C++ vs VB... just with a nicer language.



Dean have you coded Hello World in c# yet?

*I* have. And I encourage all of you to do so, too.
Don't talk about something you don't know anything about.



This is cprogramming.com. Look at the name. It's not a general programming site...

hm. Okay, that's the first real contra argument.
You are right. C# has nothing to do with C/C++.
I'd like to see a board like that anyway ;)


>My computer will most lickly not run windows xp

Does it run 2000 ? If it does, it will run .NET.
( Though naturally, each app can have different requirements... )
If it doesn't... donate it to charity, 2K is
running on my P133 48MB RAM... ( though for
development, you should have some more power than
that :) )