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DavidP
08-16-2001, 08:58 PM
Its amazing! Just yesterday in US History class, my teacher told me that George Washington never really cut down the cheery tree! What the heck! Since when was I supposed to be told this? All of our lives they have been telling us that he cut down his dads cherry tree and then apologized to his dad because he was an honest kid! And now it never happened?!?!?! Conspiracy, I tell you...They should tell us these things!!

And I found out that Columbus was a greedy, murderous man! All of our lives they have told us that he came to America, did some nice exploring and used a couple indians as GUIDES. Now I read this new history book and it says that he pretty much comitted and act of genocide against the Indians and killed several million of them....When were they going to tell us this?!?!?! Dang teachers....hiding the truth...

Next thing you know they will be telling us Abe Lincoln will never have written the Emancipation Proclomation, and it was really written by some slave owner in Texas...

Dang conspiracies...

doubleanti
08-16-2001, 09:05 PM
speaking of which... well it's not really a conspiracy... but did you know that the vietnam war was not technically declared formally? therefore it was not, technically, a war... [resists urge to write 'useless fact of the day'... std disclaimer...] bye!

slacker
08-16-2001, 09:10 PM
seriously...

in history courses covering WWII you always here about bad things hitler has done. What about Japan! Yeah sure we know they bombed pearl harbor but what about their invasion in China (i.e. raping of nanking); they've raped, murdered, totured TONS of chinese people (not to mention things they've done to korea as well). Yeah i also heard about things Colombus has done (i never was taught in class). I'm sure there are reasons for not teaching some of this stuff though..

doubleanti
08-16-2001, 09:15 PM
hey slacker why don'tcha register? wreak the benefits...

oh, and that's odd, i watched a 20/20 i think it was and they were talking about how some japanese woman had complained to their officials about a new history book which didn't mention her raping and event... i think that's sad, and the telecaster was giving examples of how our history books could have excluded some things, like abe's assassanation... when in fact the US books do exclude quite a bit of information... what the deale yo?!? :)

Nick
08-16-2001, 09:23 PM
yeah i'm gonna register once i get off from work here. looks like a lot of info to fill out and looks like there's a new FAQ? so i'll go ahead and check out that stuff when i get home. Hopefully no one will still my screen name by then; j/k.

gamegod3001
08-16-2001, 09:24 PM
in history courses covering WWII you always here about bad things hitler has done. What about Japan! Yeah sure we know they bombed pearl harbor but what about their invasion in China (i.e. raping of nanking); they've raped, murdered, totured TONS of chinese people (not to mention things they've done to korea as well).

You also can't forget what we americans did to the Japaness, durring and after the war. :( We treated them like ........, forced them to live together, ect.

slacker
08-16-2001, 09:29 PM
ok, that was wierd.. That last reply from "Nick" was really from me. So probably a bug in the board; still under-workings right? In fact, when i first tried to reply to this message it logged me in as "lmov"; i had to logout to be just a anonymous unregistered user. Don't worry "lmov" and "Nick" didn't mess with your profile or anything (but you might want to change your passwords?).

slacker
08-16-2001, 09:56 PM
gamegod3001 that is true; but Japan was our enemy during the war and it's only natural for american citizens to treat them like .......... even after the war (even though that is totally ..........ed up because most of the Japanese in america at that time WERE AMERICAN; ni-sei <2nd generation by then>). But did you know that America at least dropped thousands and thousands of messages notifying hiroshima and nagasaki that they were dropping the bomb on 'em? I also heard that japanese officials were trying to hold citizens in those cities too (not letting them leave even though they were notified they would be disintegrates in about a week). Can someone verify this cause i heard this from various sources.

Cheeze-It
08-16-2001, 10:38 PM
Don't forget the aliens...

Theologian
08-16-2001, 10:53 PM
The problem that we run into with history is that noone wants to teach the FACTS.

They want to 'explain' history and they do so by judging other's actions in the past by today's standards.

Was Columbus a horrible person? The people he killed were probably not too fond of him. But as for the rest of his contemporaries- they probably wouldn't have a problem with his actions.

Were atrocities committed in WWII? How could they not have been by all sides? The question (in regards to the Nazis I believe) is one of degree.

In the U.S. right now- there is an overwhelming preoccupation with interpreting history in a way that sends indoctrinates students with the political agendas of the day.

Unfortunately it gets in the way of teaching the facts about what has happened.

Thomas Jefferson owned slaves?!? Of course he did. Anyone who was anyone at that time in America did. Is slavery good? Well I don't think so- but that is history.

When I get frustrated about slavery is when I think about how it is going on now. That is what should get us fired up.

Well-- I could go on and on. (kind of already have)

My advice to anyone who reads this far--

Read good books. If it is about history that is not too far in the past- try to read things that give the accounts of those who were there. Seek out and investigate and never forget that everyone has an agenda whether they know it or not.

Govtcheez
08-17-2001, 06:24 AM
Theologian is right - history doesn't tell us everything, of course.

Stuff like:

Stalin killed more than Hitler dreamed of

Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh weren't teh great American heroes everyone made them out to be; at the end of their lives, both were extremely anti-Semitic. Ford even printed anti-Semitic stuff in his company's newletter.

Washington never cut down the cherry tree OR threw a silver dollar across the Potomac (actually, some sources would say he was assassinated by the Illuminati and never actually was a president)

Vietnam wasn't declared, neither was Korea


In the U.S. right now- there is an overwhelming preoccupation with interpreting history in a way that sends indoctrinates students with the political agendas of the day. Exactly...

rick barclay
08-17-2001, 06:35 AM
>but did you know that the vietnam war was not technically declared formally? therefore it was not, technically, a war... <

Korea, too.

rick barclay

Govtcheez
08-17-2001, 06:39 AM
Alright! I beat Rick to a history fact!

Hey, since you seem to be our resident history genius, what else have we been spoonfed?

RobS
08-17-2001, 06:46 AM
I thought Colombus never set foot on the mainlain, only the W. Indies and the like and died refusing to beleive he'd discovered a new country.

All quite irrelevent since the Vikings got there centuries before anyway.

That and all the people already living there.

The Allies did some pretty horrendous carpet bombing of German Cities, notably Dresden. Stalin was a truely horrible person by all accounts.
Sides in WWII doesn't really work, everyone goes Axis and Allies, but from what I can remember from my meagre GCSE history and what I've seen documentary wise it was Axis, Allies ans Russia. It's just that the Allies and Russia had convergent aims.

Govtcheez
08-17-2001, 06:48 AM
it was Axis, Allies ans Russia. It's just that the Allies and Russia had convergent aims.
That makes sense (and helps to explain our relations with them after the war)

RobS
08-17-2001, 06:54 AM
Pretty much does, when never got on with russia before the war really, it's just that neither countries wanted to overrun by a diminutive Austrian with some serious psycological problems.

After the war we could get back to not trusting their strange communist ways and building enough nuclear weapons to end life as we know it.

At the start of the war, Hitler apparantly thought that Britain would side with Germany due to a more common history and genetic background than with the slavic races.