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Bangladesh Boe
06-09-2002, 05:22 PM
Is there life form out side of the Earth, on other planets?

Pendragon
06-09-2002, 05:26 PM
There's probably some 'people' a few billion light years away asking the same question. :)

I've never really thought about it. I don't think I'd want to know... :)

Fountain
06-09-2002, 05:36 PM
well, statistically yes there is.

maybe you could write a c++ program to work the odds out!

you may have a few unknowns in there though, but lots of constants hehe.

i guess it would be naive to say we are alone....and i for 1 hope we are NOT alone

Sentaku senshi
06-09-2002, 05:40 PM
There is evidence that there was life on mars. Then using logic if earth is not mars and mars is not earth then there must be life outside of earth.

Pendragon
06-09-2002, 05:45 PM
There is evidence that there was life on mars. Then using logic if earth is not mars and mars is not earth then there must be life outside of earth.

I see the logic in that lol. :)

Fountain
06-09-2002, 05:51 PM
hmmm, not really as there WAS life on mars (perhaps)....so the original question still stands...i guess he meant is there CURRENTLY life outside of earth...heehh


im sure my logic is correct on this one...lets ask the thread starter..

seditee
06-09-2002, 05:52 PM
yes, but they aren't smarter than us. it isn't probable in my opinion. otherwise, if they were...they would have either visited us or destroyed themselves by now. i know there are older galaxies...millions, even billions of years older than ours...but the formula stands...their technology has not surpassed ours.

Bangladesh Boe
06-09-2002, 05:53 PM
"maybe you could write a c++ program to work the odds out! "


first of all i can't write c programs and even if i did know how to..........i think i would have passed;)

Fountain
06-09-2002, 05:58 PM
hehe i was kidding about the program!!

Ok, so your question is like ...is there life out there smarter than us who can kick our backsides?

its true about galaxys millions of years older than ours, and life may have died---but what about the millions of younger galaxies...they are a good bet for life (if the old ones are like us, they would have killed themselves by now !!!)


I believe there is life--what about you?

Dissata
06-09-2002, 06:16 PM
seditee,

or they have a more advanced technology but they are either, A) not advanced enough to come see us, even though they more technilogically advanced. B) they re too far away.

besides they could alays just say the exact same thing to us

lightatdawn
06-09-2002, 06:19 PM
Its highly probable. The rather small chances of the precise conditions necessary for life to occure become increasingly large when multiplied by all the possible instances in which they could.

Sentaku senshi
06-09-2002, 06:20 PM
>yes, but they aren't smarter than us. it isn't probable in my opinion. otherwise, if they were...they would have either visited us or destroyed themselves by now. i know there are older galaxies...millions, even billions of years older than ours...but the formula stands...their technology has not surpassed ours.<

If an alien ship showed up in NYC there would be mass panic, an advnced socity would know this and avoid doing so. There in lies the problem of only visiting those outside of socity. Second perhaps they have discused them selves, or hold the abiltly to cloak them selves. then there is a chance that they are not interested.

lightatdawn
06-09-2002, 06:30 PM
>>an advnced socity would know this and avoid doing so

Would they? Why? How?

>>or hold the abiltly to cloak them selves

The probability is small. Consider this unidentified race we'll call the Foos. They build themselves a shuttle capable of carrying them to distant solar systems. Lets make a huge assumption here that the Foos are a highly carring race, apparently with the same values and society as us Humans. They decide that a space ship showing up would disturb them, thus it will disturb any other race they encounter. The Foos build their shuttle equiped with the most promising technology that blocks all of their detection techniques. Now; Why do they assume that any other race they encounter will use their same exact technologies to detect objects? Why do they assume that any other race is constrained by the same physical/technological limitations as their own?

>>then there is a chance that they are not interested.

A definate possability. We tend to project our own thought patterns onto our imaginary aliens and assume that they think/reason in a simular manner to us. We have only one model of reasoning to work with (our own) and I dont think its likely that we will find that same model replicated in any intelligent life that may be out there.

Bangladesh Boe
06-09-2002, 07:51 PM
even if there were other life forms i think they would be in the same position as us.......they would also be confused about if there are other life forms...........:)
and if there are smarter then us, i think we are in trouble..........

lightatdawn
06-09-2002, 08:05 PM
>>and if there are smarter then us, i think we are in trouble.

Why? Why does everyone have a little nagging fear (escalating into full blown paranoia in some) of this? What possible reasons would a more intelligent race have of wiping us out? It is statistically unlikely that our planet will be have conditions that favour their species. There are also planets far more rich in possibly desired minerals/resources than ours. Of course it is possible that their reasoning is so drastically different from our system of thought, that I could never formulate the logic behind such a decision. And this all hinges on whether said species is even reason-driven at all. Theres no particular reason that a species with inter-solar transportation would have to be 'smarter' than us. Perhaps this species is lives millions of years and is thus able to take said journey at relativly slow speeds. Perhaps they can achieve an incredible state of hibernation. Perhaps they have merely accelerated in the field of space travel and not some others.

We think of technology as a uniform thing across the board but it only seems that way to us. The greater the need, the greater the results. It seems likely that another species would have different needs than what we have experienced throughout or history and thus would have developed radically different technologies to suit. Whos to say said technologies are in the form of mechanical devices and not more organic advancements?

Welcoming more feedback on the theory.

Sentaku senshi
06-09-2002, 08:24 PM
Lightatdawn if you wrote a movie about alieans comming to earth and they came in peace How populer do you think it would be?

Let's try

*Scene White House lawn as an alien ship hovers above

From the ship: Greetings, Hola do you care if we land are ship here? We don't want to damage any property.

Confused Security Guard: Um, sure.

::The ship lands and a door opens::

Alien: Can you please bring out your president, we would like to talk to him:::

:::Security Guard goes inside and comes out with a group of people:::

SG- see now do you belive me?

GOP-start screeming:

Alien- Don't be afraid of us. Here.

::Alien gives everyone a peice of canndy:::

:::President walks out::

Pres- Greetings.

Alien - we would like to present to the earth a gift?

Presi-Thanks, but what is it?

Alien- It's a device that can create food. Now you can end world hunger.

Presi- How does it work? and how much?

Alien- There free and I don't realy understand the technolnly my self.

Presi- No catch?

Alien- Just one, please point those guns away

Presi- guns.

Alien- thanks, here you go

::: World hunger ends and everyoen is happy:::

Bangladesh Boe
06-09-2002, 08:30 PM
Sentaku senshi nice........
i wish i could have answered something like that........
and to lightatdawn.........zero

MethodMan
06-09-2002, 09:04 PM
Well according to religion, we are the only ones. But, its kind of hard to believe we are the only ones here. Maybe they think we are aliens, as we think they are aliens. We will eventually find out, i hope.

sean
06-09-2002, 09:58 PM
You like making these polls don't you?

face_master
06-09-2002, 10:30 PM
There is so much footage of UFO's and factual books about UFO's and UFO conventions that its not possible for aliens not to exist. Somebody didn't just pull the idea of UFO's out of his ass*...

Zeeshan
06-09-2002, 10:57 PM
The universe is infinitesimally large. There CAN be anything in the universe. We can't even think about boundaries of this universe ?

Thus, I believe there must be MANY life-forms, other than ours in this universe. Out of these, some would be as BASIC as simple cells...while others may be as advanced/complex as the Humans may never be able to understand.

lightatdawn
06-09-2002, 11:42 PM
>>and to lightatdawn.........zero

Huh? I dont understand. Please clarify.

>>Lightatdawn if you wrote a movie about alieans comming to earth and they came in peace How populer do you think it would be?

Of course it wouldnt be popular. I didnt think this thread was about movies about aliens though. It appears to me to be about actual alien existance. Are you saying that people have these fears because of Hollywood? I've seen 'em all; Independance Day, Aliens I through Ressurection, etc. But its all just fiction and people know that. I dont understand your point either. Please clarify too. :confused:

>>Well according to religion, we are the only ones.

Except for the part where the bible never says that. This is another one of the interpretive assumptions. I challenge anyone to find a litteral interpretation stating this.

>>There is so much footage of UFO's and factual books about UFO's and UFO conventions

I dont actually personally believe any of these to be factual. I'd still say that the odds are for lifes existance on other planets.

swoopy
06-10-2002, 12:09 AM
Wow, so far 94% say yes.

adrianxw
06-10-2002, 12:14 AM
The probability of intelligent alien life is given by the Drake equation.

http://www.seti-inst.edu/science/drake-bg.html

This refers to intelligent life, non sentient life would, obviously, be more widespread.

seditee
06-10-2002, 03:04 AM
there are many reasons why i don't believe they are "better" than us (technologically or otherwise). if they had a higher technology, some mad-man would have sent messages in bottles that would reach every star in the universe and beyond into other universes...just for something to do. to break a law for example...because they were told not to...etc. & another reason i don't believe they are higher ups is that they...like us have a short lived planet...a grain of sand in the hour glass of time that spans the universe...etc...wiped out by massive planet-killing solar flares, neighboring planet's exploding, planet, asteroid, moon collisions, self-destruction etc...if they made it safely into space...e.g. with a giant ship...the size of America...they might have a chance of living forever as a species...just maybe. the key is in the size of the ship. i would suggest we build a ship with the goal of making the finished product the size of a small galaxy. seriously. which brings up another major factor...this is obviously the only way out...so, why aren't there giant ships out looking for scrap metal? you would think that there would be huge ships the size of jupiter everywhere you look...in search of asteroids made of metals...to add on to their vessel. just a thought.

Commander
06-10-2002, 07:38 AM
I SHOULD KNOW THERE ARE ALIENS on earth (AND THEY ARE STUPIDER THEN US, DAMNIT!)!!!

We have one in our school. and he also has a class with me!!!


*Screams*

Sentaku senshi
06-10-2002, 10:22 AM
>course it wouldnt be popular. I didnt think this thread was about movies about aliens though. It appears to me to be about actual alien existance. Are you saying that people have these fears because of Hollywood? I've seen 'em all; Independance Day, Aliens I through Ressurection, etc. But its all just fiction and people know that. I dont understand your point either. Please clarify too. <

But there is no truth to compare a moive to, and thus what we think will happen is what they say. Alieans atack.

Barjor
06-10-2002, 10:44 AM
We always assume that if the aliens where smarter then us they would contact us. What if they don't care about this planet. What if there are milions of life forms much smarter then us and we are to unciviliced to even bother a visit.

xds4lx
06-10-2002, 10:47 AM
The question of wheterer or not there is life out there is an obvious yes. Go to www.space.com or www.spacedaily.com and read the articles about amino acids and other building blocks of life being found developing in space, carried on asteriods and other celestial objects. The real question to ask is where the intelligent life is and how to contact them? But really would they be wanting to make "contact" with us? Seing as we cant get along with one another, then why would they ever want to do anything with us? Sure they might come check us out from time to time, but I doubth they really want anything to do with us till we all learn to live in peace and not harm our fellow man.

Bangladesh Boe
06-10-2002, 03:31 PM
zero as in like zero.........or um keep your day job.........you want me to clarify more?

frenchfry164
06-10-2002, 03:42 PM
I hate it when people say, if there is intelligent life, wouldn't they contact us by now? What if the other race said the same thing? Nobody would find out if there actually IS intelligent life.

lightatdawn
06-10-2002, 06:32 PM
>>zero as in like zero

Yes, I'm aware of the meaning of zero. What I'm a little lost on is what you're refering to. Zero what?

>>or um keep your day job

I take it that you're disagreeing with one of my statements but you didnt specify which one. All of them? Any of them? One in particular?

>>you want me to clarify more?

Please.

Xterria
06-10-2002, 07:07 PM
I think theres aliens out there that look chinese like in the black and white movies

kermi3
06-10-2002, 10:17 PM
By aliens do you mean intelegent life or just life? because those are VERY diffrent questions.

DISGUISED
06-10-2002, 10:19 PM
I definately think there out there...somewhere. I don't believe they have ever come to Earth though. If they have it must have been thousands of years ago. Who knows, maybe we're the aliens?

I don't think you can really make an intelligent guess about life forms in deep space. Like what they think, how advanced their technology is etc. How could you? It would be amazing to know though.

I think most of us will live to see the first discovery of life on another planet. And it will most likely be something found on Mars in 20 years. Maybe fossils? microscopic bugs? who knows.

AlienZoo.com (http://www.alienzoo.com/)

ihsir
06-10-2002, 10:52 PM
I think there must be both "intelligent life" and "just life" like kermi said, out there. I dont see any reason why there cant be life in any one of the millions of galaxies present.

As far as the state of their technological advancement goes.. who knows it vould be higher than ours or maybe even lesser. It could be even same. They might even look like you and me.

I agree with what DISGUISED said
>>I don't think you can really make an intelligent guess about life forms ..<<



BTW.. I thought we agreed that DA was an alien :D:D, where is he/she/it/they/them anyways.

seditee
06-11-2002, 12:21 AM
they would have either contacted us or they would have been compelled to destroy us by now - as many species as there must be...you cannot convince me that there aren't evil ones.
do you ever think about what our solar system may have been like before earth was hospitable to life? e.g. could jupiter have been a small planet at one time? could it have been the sun? and the sun was a gas giant? and what about earth when life was hospitable during it's early evolution...e.g. there are theories it was tilted differently....if this is true....then the north pole could be hiding civilizations beneath it's ice...and are we sure people didn't think exactly the way we do today? and it's just that they couldn't make it happen? they could come up with the same kinds of ideas we have today...for inventions, innovations etc...they just couldn't apply anything...maybe it was too hot outside...bad air all of the time....and all they could think about for hundreds of thousands of years was surviving...and keeping other hysterical cavemen off your back long enough to reproduce....bad atmospheric conditions could hold a species back.....don't you think?

loopy
06-11-2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by lightatdawn
We think of technology as a uniform thing across the board but it only seems that way to us. The greater the need, the greater the results. It seems likely that another species would have different needs than what we have experienced throughout or history and thus would have developed radically different technologies to suit. Whos to say said technologies are in the form of mechanical devices and not more organic advancements?

Welcoming more feedback on the theory.

Yes the media play's a big role in our preception's on anything unknown specifically the alien's. I think that when we think about life on a planet (the only reason i say planet is i can't imagine life in space itself) we need look only at our own planet. Why is it we have to think that other life is as intelligent as human's? We are the freak's of our planet, we are the one's spending day's on our computer when other animal's are doing more worthwhile activity's such as hunting for food. And on another note (aside from my personal loathing of some of human activity) what we do is quite natural, if we concider ourselve's to be animal's and nothing more, yes that mean's we arn't the god's of our universe.

And i'm not quite sure as to the meaning of organic advancment's, do you mean similar to science, or do you mean evolution? If you can understand me...

Sentaku senshi
06-11-2002, 11:34 AM
>By aliens do you mean intelegent life or just life? because those are VERY diffrent questions.<

Well since there is already proof that life once existed on Mars that debate is really one sided. I'm pretty sure there were talking about inteligent life.

>they would have either contacted us or they would have been compelled to destroy us by now - as many species as there must be...you cannot convince me that there aren't evil ones.<

They might be some that are evil. Perhaps there is some sort of planetry confedieration keeping them in cheak.

lightatdawn
06-11-2002, 12:26 PM
>>i'm not quite sure as to the meaning of organic advancment's, do you mean similar to science, or do you mean evolution?

Both. Either/Or. They could have developed technologies that alter their physical properties, etc. Or whos to say that they do not have the inate abaility to alter their own properties at will and have honed this skill to increased ability?

>>Well since there is already proof that life once existed on Mars

Not that I'm aware of. There are plenty of theories describing the various phenomenom found there but none of them have enough evidence to back them up sufficiently at this point. Its definatly a possibility though.

>>They might be some that are evil.

Evil by whos standards? We can only define evil through our own interpretation of our thought process. Perhaps another species thinks of evil in an entirly different light and would consider our species 'evil'. After all, we kill our own kind dont we? A species defintion of evil, should it even that concept even exist in its social condition, would be entirely dependant on the species itself. Evil is not a universal concept.

Sentaku senshi
06-11-2002, 01:16 PM
>Not that I'm aware of. There are plenty of theories describing the various phenomenom found there but none of them have enough evidence to back them up sufficiently at this point. Its definatly a possibility though.<

I'm refering to the two metors that came from mars that showed signs of life.

loopy
06-11-2002, 02:12 PM
<<Both. Either/Or. They could have developed technologies that alter their physical properties, etc. Or whos to say that they do not have the inate abaility to alter their own properties at will and have honed this skill to increased ability? <<

I think the chance's of life on another planet developing technologies is slim, condition's on our planet make such thing's possible such as electricity, but there's only so much that can be done scientificly without it(stating the obvious). But your thought's on evolution leave much to question. Looking at our own planet such thing's already exsist, the camelion for example has evolved this way, does the camilion have to be mentally aware of this ability for it to be concidered 'increased ability'? Does life on another planet have to be 'smart' to be concidered more evolved than human's, i don't think so.

lightatdawn
06-11-2002, 02:29 PM
>>condition's on our planet make such thing's possible such as electricity

Exactly my point. Conditions influence the direction developments will/can travel. Yet the universe is simply energy unharnessed, so whos to say that another species hasnt found an entirly different way to harness that energy and put it to use? We think of electricity as the only way to power so many devices but thats not true. Its not far fetched to imagine harnessing any number of other possible energy soruces for direct use in powering a device.

>>such thing's already exsist, the camelion for example has evolved this way

As have many other creatures. Humans have developed technologies as a method of survival. Theres no specific reason however that another species could not have developed incredible physical traits that would place them far above any other creature on their planet. Imagine an far more advanced jellyfish. A creature composed of numerous other little creatures. The mutating possibilities of this organism would be great.


>>I'm refering to the two metors that came from mars that showed signs of life.

Yes. There is strong evidence supporting the theory but I dont think theres been enough agreement and subsequent occurances to lend enough credence to it yet.

The only info I could find was all very supportive but nothing concrete:

"may well have survived a plunge into early Earth's atmosphere"

"However, there is still a tendency to interpret results like this as merely showing that organics, rather than life, are being added to the Earth, but the trend is surely moving towards panspermia," - Wickramasinghe"

"A NASA research team of scientists at the Johnson Space Center and at Stanford University has found evidence that strongly suggests primitive life may have existed on Mars more than 3.6 billion years ago."

You get the picture. Its pretty damn interesting though. I lean towards the theory, myself.

Barjor
06-11-2002, 02:55 PM
The day the alians land here on earth or the day we go visit them. Would that be prof that the bible is wrong?;)

loopy
06-11-2002, 04:06 PM
<<Imagine an far more advanced jellyfish. A creature composed of numerous other little creatures. The mutating possibilities of this organism would be great.

I'm glad that the topic has shifted away from intelligent life and a little tword live creature's. It's like the shark that has a little fish following it cleaning it. But again our perception's are a from idea's and discovery's from our own planet. This is soon going to start resembiling the imagination post's, but what if the universe itself is a living being, and human's and other animal's the creature's that are inside it, as we'll as the other life form's that exsist possibly on other planet's.

As we create better and better technoligy and push out into the universe, then that is what will keep the living being going, or it could be anything were doing that were not aware of. This is all very abstract, but if your going to use perception's that are derived from human experience to describe the unknown, then i might as we'll be abstract.

And if you understand me i take my hat of to you.

Dissata
06-11-2002, 04:50 PM
seditee,

I think your missing one big point in all these arguments. Your assumeing that the aliens have the baility to contact, visit or destroy us. They merely may be unable to do so or unaware of our existence

dbaryl
06-11-2002, 08:45 PM
I guess this is related tot he above post:

How amuch more advanced would we have to ge tin order to be able to contact any intellengent civilization that is as advanced as we are at the time? I'm sure it's hard to define this by some factor (say 5x), but we would have to have much better technology/knowledge in order to contact a civilization ANYWHERE out there if one existed.

Now, to switch the tables: this should show that even if another intellegent civilization out there is as advanced as us they would be unable to contact us. It would require much better knowledge for them to do that, so... chances are, even if there's something out there that's as smart as us, we might never hear from them.

I think it's safe to say that if aliens were to actually land out on Earch and come with: "Greetings, earthlings", they would be MORE advanced than us at this time.

Mario
06-12-2002, 09:00 AM
I would suggest anyone interested to buy and read Carl Sagan and I.S. Shklovskii Intelligent Life in the Universe. New York: Random House, 1966.

It addresses all this issues in a manner I couldn't possibly do here. But basically, yes. There should be life outside earth. Intelligence is another matter as is, the technological advancement of said intelligence. These last two can hardly be quantified given the present knowledge we have of the universe... (just remember only recently did we discover the first few planets outside the solar system).

loopy
06-12-2002, 10:40 AM
<<Lightatdawn if you wrote a movie about alieans comming to earth and they came in peace How populer do you think it would be?

<<of course it wouldn't be popular.

Say's who? Isn't this just two people's opinion out a many? There was a movie that came out awhile back called k-pax, the movie was about a peacful alien, i wanted to see it.

<<I think it's safe to say that if aliens were to actually land out on Earch and come with: "Greetings, earthlings", they would be MORE advanced than us at this time.

Not true, if human's where to ever be able to travel far in space and find alien's and i got of the ship and greeted them, does that make me more advanced than the rest of our planet, no. Even the most antiscocial of human's would not respond the same way to an intelligent alien than to his own kind because this antisocial individual know's that they would'nt understand his behavior, thus no result's, which would make it a waste of his/her time. That pose's some interesting thought's on human to intelligent alien interaction's. Mabey intelligent alien's could teach alot about our own behavior...

Magos
06-12-2002, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Fountain
i guess he meant is there CURRENTLY life outside of earth...heehh
The universe is huge (!). There might be a civilication out there who died out a million of years ago, but we won't find out they existed until another million of years have passed due to the delay of their signal transmissions.

Even the light from out own sun takes ~8 minutes to travel to earth. Who knows, the sun might have died 5 minutes ago, but we won't find out until another 3 minutes pass :).