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Jet_Master
06-05-2002, 07:44 AM
Who do you think deserves the land of Kashmir?
Who do you think should/will win if the war gets to that point...?

stevey
06-05-2002, 07:57 AM
where did the last poll disapear to i wonder ?? someone not liking the result or something ?

i say, referendum, let the Kashmir people decide.
there should have been a referendum in 1947.
have a UN monitored ballot and that will be the end of it.
Indian people on here seem to think Kasmmiri's want to be Indian, Pakistani's on here think they want to be Pakistani.
I read in the newspapers they probably would choose independance.
It would be interesting to know the truth.

Who would win a war?
Conventional war - India, probably quite easily.
Nuclear war - nobody wins, both sides lose. also neighbouring countries suffer, depending on the prevailing winds at the time.
the biggest humanitarian disaster since the second world war will ensue. madness.

vasanth
06-05-2002, 08:11 AM
well where has the other poll gone.. Well it was astarted by him.. Pakistani and it got deleted because many votes supported India there.. So what does this show.. Pakistanis will respect voting only if it is to their favour or else they just make it disappear...

Zeeshan
06-05-2002, 10:07 AM
I exactly favour what Stevey said. Let's face it, India is a big country with a huge population. Hence, we also have more indians on the board then Pakistanis.

The rightful path is that of referendum. Let the people of Kashmir decide what they want. Who are we to decide their fate.

Shiro
06-05-2002, 11:10 AM
>Let the people of Kashmir decide what they want.

I totally agree with that.

adrianxw
06-05-2002, 11:54 AM
I'll try and state exactly what I said in the deleted thread, (not deleted by the moderators by the way).

India will never accept Pakistani rule. Pakistan will never accept Indian rule, and an independent Kashmir is not viable.

This conflict is draining valuable resources from two really rather poor countries. I wish the governments/NGO's/parasites would all realise this and sort it out. It makes me sick.

Clyde
06-05-2002, 12:11 PM
"and an independent Kashmir is not viable. "

And you know this...... how?

DrakkenKorin
06-05-2002, 12:13 PM
I'm still wondering why there is no "Give The Land To The Kashmiris"

?

adrianxw
06-05-2002, 12:24 PM
DrakkenKorin:

>>> no "Give The Land To The Kashmiris"

There was on yesterdays poll.

Clyde:

>>> And you know this...... how?

Of course I don't know. That is my opinion. Consider, a state with few natural resources, a semi hostile state on every border, everybody, rightly on wrongly, assuming that all the "local" terrorism stems from there, and most of the outside world not giving a damn?

Believe me, I would love things to be fair, but tell me how an independent Kashmir could possibly survive without being another drain on "peacekeeping" resources, "development" grants and every other kind of corruption?

RedRum
06-05-2002, 01:44 PM
>>tell me how an independent Kashmir could possibly survive without being another drain on "peacekeeping" resources, "development" grants and every other kind of corruption?

Thats what the united nations is there for ,its there job to offer protection to the not so powerful states(at least in theory) And so i don't see why it should be a drain on their resources.

Also i believe there is a UN resolution (am not 100% sure about this)that states that the fate of kashmir should be desided by the kasmiris themselves.
I think its about time that the people that are most suffering from this should have their voices heard.I agree with stevey that it looks both pakistanis and indians want a piece of kashmir without even considering the kashmir's views.

Clyde
06-05-2002, 03:26 PM
Well, if India agreed to a referendum and they voted for independace, India wouldn't suddenly invade, and since Pakistan is backing independance i don't see them invading either.

Whether or nothey are economically viable..... i'm not even sure what that actually means, so heh I can't really form a conclusion :).

However there are certain resources within Kashmir, I believe (could be wrong, it might be part of Pakistan)there is a large hydro-electric dam there.

fyodor
06-05-2002, 04:49 PM
There should be another poll option: "Kashmir? Isn't that a song by Led Zeppelin?"

sean
06-05-2002, 04:55 PM
Shouldn't there be a spot for Kasmir being declared an independant state?

Fountain
06-05-2002, 05:40 PM
Havent we all had this before? and , at least this vote has a ' Who cares option' as this is getting tedious...as i have said before...who owns gibraltar? We at least will give the people of gibraltar the choice, but in Kashmir it will never work..Whoever wins the referendum, the other side will be unhappy and BOOM...

Game Over


its a sad state of affairs for this century, but who is gonna stop it.

seditee
06-05-2002, 05:50 PM
& the creator said unto this module - thou shalt be re-usable.

tim545666
06-05-2002, 10:26 PM
Kashmir would be screwed as an independant nation, it would lead to more problems. It could not defend itself against its three beligerent, unstable neighbors China, India, and Pakistan. A country like the stupid US would but in and there we go, its just like the whole Palestine/Israel thing. People in that area will hate the US more than ever, and we get more terrorist attacks on our soil. BAD IDEA!

I think that either the kashmir shold be split up in between Pakistan and China, or it should go to Pakistan. When East and West Pakistan were created for the muslim homelands out of India, the Kashmir leagally belonged to West Pakistan, which is now Pakistan. China, though, also has a legitamate claim to the Kashmir, and the last thing we want to do is ........ off China right as our relations are improving with them. (Yes, thats an American point of view. Maybe others will disagree). China just happens to be out of this dispute, but it is usually in the disputes of the Kashmir.

India has no claim to this land. It is the source of Pakistan's water supply and the last thing the world needs is a larger dispute between these two nuclear powers. India agreed with the seperation of West and East Pakistan from India, and the Kashmir wsa given away. The Indians are wrong, they should just sit the hell down.

Clyde
06-06-2002, 04:07 AM
"Kashmir would be screwed as an independant nation, it would lead to more problems. It could not defend itself against its three beligerent, unstable neighbors China, India, and Pakistan"

You think they would invade Kashmir after they agreed to have a referendum!? It's ALREADY split up. A referendum is the solution, let the people decide what to do.

India is gearing up for war: The prediction is they will attack the camps in Pakistan controlled Kashmir within 2 weeks :(

mike_k
06-06-2002, 02:28 PM
"A referendum is the solution, let the people decide what to do. "

We had a referendum over granting a province in my country sovereignty and it resulted in lots of rioting and violence when they voted no.

Clyde
06-06-2002, 03:31 PM
Yea because obviously a referendum in Kashmir would cause MORE violence...

Zeeshan
06-07-2002, 12:33 AM
>> India is gearing up for war: The prediction is they will attack the camps in Pakistan controlled Kashmir within 2 week

How do you know, if there are any "camps"? Musharraf is openly asking for UN observers to see the situation and tell the world about it. He is even asking for UN observers to patrol the LoC (Line of control) to see if their is any infiltration into India from this side.

Clyde
06-07-2002, 04:33 AM
I don't really know, but thats what it said on the headlines of the British press.

vasanth
06-07-2002, 04:43 AM
There are terrorists camp on pakistan side.. The world knows this...

GaPe
06-07-2002, 12:15 PM
The rightful path is that of referendum. Let the people of Kashmir decide what they want. Who are we to decide their fate.

I agree with that!

tim545666
06-07-2002, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by vasanth
There are terrorists camp on pakistan side.. The world knows this... There are terrorists in India too. There are terrorists in every country. But that has nothing to do with who has the rightfull claim to the land. Read my earlier post.

quote:
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The rightful path is that of referendum. Let the people of Kashmir decide what they want. Who are we to decide their fate.
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I agree with that!I think we established that a referendum is a horrible idea. Do you know your history? This seems eerily similar to the whole Israel issue if someoen decides to let that happen. Besides, Pakistan and India will still fight over it even if it is a free state.

Clyde
06-07-2002, 07:12 PM
"I think we established that a referendum is a horrible idea"

I think you need to stop smoking whatever it is your smoking, before you talk about international affairs.

"This seems eerily similar to the whole Israel issue if someoen decides to let that happen"

..... its nothing like Israel.

"Besides, Pakistan and India will still fight over it even if it is a free state"

Not if THEY agree to hold a referendum they won't, Pakistan already backs a referendum.

salvelinus
06-07-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by Clyde
"This seems eerily similar to the whole Israel issue if someoen decides to let that happen"

..... its nothing like Israel.

I'd disagree there. Is it the same as Israel/Palestine? No. Similar? Yes, in that India can only continue to rule Kashmir through repressive measures, and that breeds (not justifies) terrorism. Israel seems unable to learn that continuing repression of the Palestinians doesn't make them more docile or amenable to Israeli dictates, but in fact creates more terrorists and more importantly, support for them.
The similar situation will/would/has occured in Kashmir. Religious/political/yada yada fanatics only gain support when oppressed. But if that's what the people want...they'll get it.
You can't beat people into agreeing with your side. You usualy can't argue with them. Show them by example. This is one reason capitalism has won out over communism. Not that capitalism is perfect, or can't be improved, but that people in capitalist countries in general have a better life than those in communist countries.

Bangladesh Boe
06-07-2002, 08:35 PM
There is no way that this settlement is going to stop until the stinking US puts it's stinking nose in this stinking situation. US is probably going to divide the land in 2 and give it to the 2 countries, but still i would like both countries to try to solve this matter with out the US................
As long as there is no war, i am happy..............:D

tim545666
06-07-2002, 10:02 PM
What I meant by similar to Israel is the situation the new state would be in. It is surrounded by 3 unstable countries that would love to get their greedy little hands on the land. Remember when Israel was created? 6 countries declared war on it in the first 12 hours. Your arguement was if they agreed they wouldn't fight it. True, but you are assuming they will sign that. They will split the Kashmir before making it a free state.

There is no way that this settlement is going to stop until the stinking US puts it's stinking nose in this stinking situation.This is exactly why we are hated in the middle east. That's just what we need, more motive for terrorist attacks on this country. The US has no right to be there as far as most middle eastern countries are concerned. Referendum would worsen the situation.

"I think we established that a referendum is a horrible idea"

I think you need to stop smoking whatever it is your smoking, before you talk about international affairs. I was refering to the previous posts dumbass.

BOTTOM LINE- India has no right to this land. It's their fault this whole mess was started. When West Pakistan (now Pakistan) was formed, INDIA AGREED TO GIVE THE KASHMIR TO WEST PAKISTAN!!! Why are we even having the arguement who deserves the land? It's a blatently obvious answer. Stupid India.

GaPe
06-08-2002, 12:12 AM
There are terrorists in every country.
That is not true. As far as I know that in Slovenia, Austria, Croatia, Hungary, Netherlands, ................. there are no terrorists.

ihsir
06-08-2002, 12:20 PM
BOTTOM LINE- India has no right to this land.


Yeah, we have no right over Kashmir which has been under Indian governance for more than 50 years.




It's their fault this whole mess was started.


OK just for the sake of argument lets say ''its India's fault''. So guess what does the Pakistan military and ISI [their intelligence agency] does... gives arms, aids, land, logistics etc support to misleaded Kashmiri youth and call foreign and Pakistani militants to train and start terrorist acts in the name of "jihad" and thus kill innocent people.




INDIA AGREED TO GIVE THE KASHMIR TO WEST PAKISTAN!!!


Wha ?? When ?? Hey why didn't anybody tell us about this.

You must be smoking somthing strange?


Another thing... China is in the picture only because it supports Pakistan and if the Pakistani want to give their land to China its up them. I dont think that the Chinese have claimed Kashmir as their land.

stevey
06-08-2002, 01:50 PM
there was actually a small part of kashmir that was claimed by china, and pakistan gave it to them to appease them. i think this was in the 70's.

anyone with a genuine interest in this dispute could do worse than look at these links, one pro-pakistani, the second pro-Indian.

http://www.pak.gov.pk/public/kashmir/facts-kashmir.htm
http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/basicfacts/basics.html

its hard to find anything impartial, but if you see both then you can make your own mind up.