PDA

View Full Version : why!?!? why, java, why!?



Aran
06-02-2002, 10:12 AM
why is java so crappy? everyone says that java is slow, clumsy, poor, and not worth the operating system it's compiled on.

I like java. It can't be that bad.

tell me that what i've heard is wrong, please!

Commander
06-02-2002, 11:03 AM
I tried java once...but then i saw that u have to write that public static void main and all the other crap with the right filename, I fuguerd that java was XXXXXXXX and there was no point of learning it when i can use that time to learn c.....
[THE ABOVE WAS ONLY my OPINION]

Zeeshan
06-02-2002, 12:05 PM
Hi,


An interpreted Java program would typically run at only one tenth the speed of an equivalent program using native machine instructions.
--- Beginning Java 2 (Ivor Horton, Wrox Publications) Pg. 11

On the other hand C/C++ are the fastest programming languages (apart from machine-level/assembly-level languages) available. You are visiting a C/C++ extremist website... So everyone is bound to be cursing Java, specially for it's speed :D

Personally, I think that the speed of Java is slow enough to stop a programmer from using it to develop an application, whenever he/she can.

Java should only be used for requirements where an application is to run on several different platforms (e.g. Windows, Unix, Mac etc) e.g. on website....

In my opinion this is the only plus point of programming in java (it multiplatformability):)

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 12:16 PM
So everyone is bound to be cursing Java, specially for it's speed

The general speed isn't too bad. It's claimed that its way of handling heap memory is quicker than most of the C/C++ runtime implementations (but I suppose it'd need to be). It's just that all the GUI stuff feels like wading through syrup sometimes which removes some of it's possibilities. Plus some people have a hard time with some of the OOP stuff.

lightatdawn
06-02-2002, 02:10 PM
Personally, I have a deep rooted loathing of all things scripting. This stems from traumatic childhood experiences with QBasic. Once bitten, twice shy. ;)

Java's fine for web development. However, real developers should stick to real languages. *ducks and covers*

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 02:20 PM
Real developers should stick to the construction industry.

ygfperson
06-02-2002, 03:20 PM
say what you want about java...
javascript will beat out all languages!

Fordy
06-02-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by lightatdawn
Personally, I have a deep rooted loathing of all things scripting. This stems from traumatic childhood experiences with QBasic. Once bitten, twice shy. ;)


I quite like some scripting........whether its JavaScript Wars with Ken @ Flashdaddee....or just messing with ASP or Windows Scripting....

Its limited, but sometimes you can do something quite cute witn not much effort....ala...



OPTION EXPLICIT
DIM oShell,oNet,oLink,compname,username,DesktopPath

SET oShell=CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
SET oNet=CreateObject("WScript.Network")

compname=oNet.ComputerName
username=oNet.UserName
MsgBox "You are logged on as " & username & " on a computer called " _
& compname

DesktopPath = oShell.SpecialFolders("Desktop")
SET oLink=oShell.CreateShortcut(DesktopPath & "\CProgramming.com!.url")
oLink.TargetPath = "http://www.cprogramming.com"
oLink.Save

MsgBox "I have created a helpful link on your desktop!" _
& vbCrLf &"Have a nice day!!"

Save that as WhoAmI.vbs and run it.....there will be a small present on your desktop!

taylorguitarman
06-02-2002, 04:30 PM
We'll one of the jobs I'm trying to get right now would be as a Java developer. I like the language a lot. Not only is it good for web applications, but GUIs too. I'm not going to stop programming in C or C++ but I think Java is a respectable langauge, unlike COBOL or Visual Basic. Ironically, I'm trying to get a job as a VB programmer too.

If it's speed you're worried about, there are native code Java compilers that allow Java programs to run just about as fast as a similar C/C++ one.

Like it or not, Java's going to be around a while so it's best to get used to it. :)

Note to newbie programmers: Java != JavaScript

taylorguitarman
06-02-2002, 04:32 PM
If you're going to be scripting anything, PERL beats everything else out hands down.

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 04:49 PM
Or you can be a genuine script kiddie. Create a text file with -


Do
MsgBox "Hello, World"

Loop

as the contents. Save it as a vbs file, put it in some unsuspecting victims startup folder (that doesn't know how to use task manager) and watch them howl in pain.

btw, does anybody code in PERL anymore?

Fordy
06-02-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by Sorensen

btw, does anybody code in PERL anymore?


Ugh....yeah....taylorguitarman obviously........:p

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 05:16 PM
>Ugh....yeah....taylorguitarman obviously........

Yes, I'm blind.

>but GUIs too.<

Have they updated swing in the last 6 months?

Dual-Catfish
06-02-2002, 05:25 PM
btw, does anybody code in PERL anymore?
I hope you're joking :) I know many people who still code in PERL, me included.

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 05:28 PM
Well done.

Fordy
06-02-2002, 05:35 PM
Most people quit PERL when they realised that it caused excess wear & tear on their keyboard's '$' key.................:)

SilentStrike
06-02-2002, 05:36 PM
Java isn't a scripting langauge.

Sure, it's slower than C and C++, but it's generally a factor of 3-4 times slower than C and C++, not a factor of 100, like scripting langauges.

http://www.sosnoski.com/Java/Compare.html#File

I think the langauge is a lot more elegant than C or C++ as well.

If I am developing something for myself, it's gonna be in C++ (See BomberLAN :) ), but I still find programming in Java to be enjoyable. It's nice to have extremely well documented APIs, and an exception system that usually makes problems visible at their origin, not some point later in a program, and garbage collection.

golfinguy4
06-02-2002, 05:44 PM
Personally, I don't like Java. True object orientation (i.e. putting main in a class) is something that I do not enjoy. But, since the world seems to love it and it covers many platforms, I am gonna learn it.

lightatdawn
06-02-2002, 06:45 PM
>>putting main in a class

This offends me as a human being. I just find the whole concept offensive. This is mainly because, doing what I do, I find speed to be the ultimate variable. And that anal-retentive geek part of me resents the fact that Java does the aformentioned garbage collection. ........ off! I'll do it myself! personally I prefer it when things dont work right if I dont code it right.

Sorensen
06-02-2002, 06:57 PM
So you code everything in handcrafted asm?

MethodMan
06-02-2002, 07:01 PM
I learned java as my first programming language, and its not that bad. It makes you aware of the restrictions, since it wont let you do stuff C would normally allow you to do.

Unregistered
06-02-2002, 07:37 PM
>>Sure, it's slower than C and C++, but it's generally a factor of 3-4 times slower than C and C++, not a factor of 100, like scripting langauges.<<

i agree with you for the most part SIlent Strike, but there is one scripting language that is close to my heart. Python. if i needed to code a basic everyday desktop GUI application for windows, Linux, Mac...whatever...i would choose python over java anyday. While java is faster than python, python's GUI packages are written in native code. In fact you can write any extention to the language in C++. Swing is written in java and is noticeably slow on a "fast" machine. Swing was a mistake...

lightatdawn
06-02-2002, 08:12 PM
>>So you code everything in handcrafted asm?

Of course. Doesnt everybody?:cool:

I just meant that I chose the tools that best suit my needs. I'm not putting java down as a useless language, far from it. I just said that its useless for what I do.