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DavidP
05-28-2002, 04:04 PM
Well...I saw that my original "A Word of Wisdom from DavidP" from a few months ago had suddenly been bumped up to the top by somebody, and it reminded me about the problem which has just been worsening ever since. Lets see if anybody can help me out with the new dilema:

If you dont have background in the problem, read the original "A Word of Wisdom from DavidP" thread.

I was working in BIOS one day...and I noticed that the Secondary IDE controller was not enabled, so I thought that that might be the problem with my CDROM drive not working.

So I enabled it, but it would be automatically set back to disabled every time I boot up computer.

Well, after several struggles and trying several different methods, I decided to switch the Primary and Secondary IDE controllers one time to see if anything would happen...of course I knew it would probably not work....but I figured I would just switch them back after I did it...

So I did that...and of course...it didnt work...

So I switched them back...but to my dismay...now the computer wont even boot up...

It brings a message up to confirm that I wanted the Primary controller to be set to the hard drive I had put it on...but then the keyboard locked and I could not confirm anything or continue boot up...

every time i boot up it sits in that screen...

I cannot boot to floppy....I cannot get into BIOS using the F10 BIOS disk that I downloaded and was using...I cannot boot to HD.....it just simply stalls during bootup...

what do i do now?

Unregistered
05-28-2002, 04:09 PM
reset the bios... :P a paper clip works just great :P make sure its on when you do it...

Unregistered
05-28-2002, 04:15 PM
Well start with unplugging everything from the mother board. except graphic card, keyboard, memory and proc. If that works add one device at the time. same thing happend to me and after doing this it started to work..not sure why.

novacain
05-28-2002, 11:45 PM
>>reset the bios... :P a paper clip works just great :P make sure its on when you do it...

I would not do this. (jk or not)

Reset the jumper and restart or remove the battery for a few minutes.

Do not stick a paper clip into the MB and turn on. Just as you would not stick a paper clip into a power point and turn it on.

Vicious
05-28-2002, 11:54 PM
heh... if you have a usb "internet keyboard" I found it will not work outside of windows...

Invincible
05-29-2002, 02:33 AM
Have you by any chance tried swapping out the cdrom drive with another? Sounds like hardware failure to me.

Edit:

I recently spent 2 days trying to figure out why the hell I couldn't I couldn't re-install XP only to find out that I had a damaged memory module. RDRAM is not cheap :(

JasonLikesJava
05-29-2002, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Vicious
heh... if you have a usb "internet keyboard" I found it will not work outside of windows...

That was so... um... random

Vicious
05-29-2002, 03:16 PM
Well.. I.. just.. thaught...

:(

sniff.. everyone hates me.. :(

DavidP
05-29-2002, 05:07 PM
>Well start with unplugging everything from the mother board. except graphic card, keyboard, memory and proc. If that works add one device at the time. same thing happend to me and after doing this it started to work..not sure why.


Hey, that got DOS back up and working! So now I'm back to point A....must get CDROM and Windows working again...

Betazep
05-29-2002, 05:16 PM
what bios? F10 is usually a compaq related...

How are your drives situated on the IDE cables. Like

Primary | Master HD + Slave HD

Secondary | Master CD + Slave CDR

Do you have any extra IDE cables?

Is your CMOS battery dead? Can you save other changes?

Can you run a HD off of the secondary?

Do you have two known good hard drives that you can put one as a Primary master and one as a secondary master.

See where I am getting with all of this. It could be many things. You have to do more troubleshooting.

~Betazep

VirtualAce
05-29-2002, 05:23 PM
reset the bios... :P a paper clip works just great :P make sure its on when you do it...



With advice like this its amazing some of you haven't toasted your motherboards or yourself in the process....




....walks out of the room shaking his head....

Betazep
05-29-2002, 05:28 PM
And then take your paperclip... stand barefoot in a puddle of water and insert the end of the paperclip into the small side of any outlet. This will give you special powers to fix all computers by merely touching the case. Not only that, but you will have "turn everything into gold" powers for two days. How many of your friends can say that they have a gold bannana? I bet not even one....

Try it today.

(Warning. Sticking metal objects into 110 VAC outlets may seriously hinder your ability to live. Only try this if your last name contains Laden.)

DavidP
05-29-2002, 05:42 PM
>what bios? F10 is usually a compaq related...

yeah, the Compaq F10 BIOS....see the previous "Word of Wisdom" thread for info on that whole issue...

>How are your drives situated on the IDE cables.

Primary - 1 GB HD
Secondary - 8x CD-ROM

(remember, its old)

>Do you have any extra IDE cables?

yes

>Is your CMOS battery dead?

no

>Can you save other changes?

havent tried

>Can you run a HD off of the secondary?

I tried switching the secondary to HD and the primary to CDROM....thats what made it not bootable....maybe I should try putting an HD on both instead of the CDROM on primary...

>Do you have two known good hard drives that you can put one as a Primary master and one as a secondary master.

yeah, sure...but that wont fix anything...

The main problem is that the CDROM is not being detected. It is on the secondary IDE cable...

I have tried taking the HD to other computers in my house, except for the one I am on, because this is the family one, and installing Windows 9x on the HD from those computers, but there were problems every time I tried installing a diff. version of Windows...

I am going to take it to a friends comp tomorrow and see if we can get Windows on it from his comp....

If I can get Windows on it, it will most likely detect that CDROM...

novacain
05-29-2002, 08:35 PM
>>>Do you have two known good hard drives that you can put one as a Primary master and one as a secondary master.

It would prove that both your IDE controlers and cables are working. Isolating the problem with the CD ROM.

(silly question; You do have the jumpers slave / master set on the CD ROM / HD ? HD should / has to be the master)

Betazep
05-29-2002, 08:43 PM
>>>If I can get Windows on it, it will most likely detect that CDROM...


Nope... if it isn't in your bios... it isn't available on windows. It my not be an autodect cdrom. Can you set the setting as CDROM manually?

If you can do this, then you are golden for the most part (unless your CDROM is broken). You don't need to take your entire computer over to your friends house... just the HD. My friend brought his over, I took out one of mine... placed in his... partitioned, formatted, installed windows and he took it back and dropped it into is machine. Up came windows. We did this because he didn't have a cdrom at all.

Something to consider. Good luck. Can't beleive you are still working on that thing... lol ;)

Betazep
05-29-2002, 08:45 PM
>>>It would prove that both your IDE controlers and cables are working. Isolating the problem with the CD ROM.


oh... and exactly! This is the first thing I would do...

sean
05-29-2002, 08:50 PM
This doesn't really serve any productive purpose right now, but why didn't you just put something in autoexec.bat? Or could it not be done with a really really ridiculously good looking DOS prompt command?

novacain
05-29-2002, 10:15 PM
I would not install Windows on the HD then change machines, as changing the hardware, particularly the MB, will make Windows very unstable. It will also ask for the CD to update the drivers (problem if you do not have a the CD working). If you can, 1Gb may not be enough (for both the CAB's, the swap file and the Windows intall), copy the Windows CAB's to the HD, on your friends machine, put it back in yours, run the set-up.

I always copy the OS CD to the HD and install from there. Is faster from HD than CD, and when Windows wants to update it just looks on the HD, no need for the CD.

hostensteffa
05-29-2002, 10:57 PM
The best way is to just remove the cmos battery for a while and then put it back in.

Barjor
05-30-2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by Betazep

Nope... if it isn't in your bios... it isn't available on windows. It my not be an autodect cdrom. Can you set the setting as CDROM manually?

Well actually thats not always true. On my first Compaq the bios couldn't see the CD rom but windows picked it up without a problem.

Wow you are getting alot of strange advices.

One thing you could try is to pull a different CD-rom and try in your compaq. Other then that just keep on trying. sounds like yo have the trouble shoting technic down pretty well. And be careful about resetting the bios. Doesn't sound like that would help you at all. And you are taking a risk when you are doing that. When I did it on previous mentioned Compaq my MB fried.

DavidP
05-30-2002, 01:12 PM
ever since I got this computer, the hard drive for some reason has been set to slave....I dont know why....but it is. On the label it says that if the hard drive has no jumper on it...it is set to slave...and it has no jumper....so i need to get a jumper for it...but it is not a normal jumper, like normal ones have two pins vertically...this one has 1 pin vertically...so its all weird...so i need to buy a jumper for it and set it to master...but i dont think that that is the problem...

Is there any way I can get a better BIOS for this ghetto comp? I hate this F10 BIOS that I had to download from Compaq's website. I want something like Phoenix BIOS....

I managed to get Windows on the HD at my friends house today...but the CDROM is not being detected....and BIOS still sets it to disabled every time I try and enable it...

Betazep
05-30-2002, 02:39 PM
>>>Well actually thats not always true. On my first Compaq the bios couldn't see the CD rom but windows picked it up without a problem.


[sigh] You have to have your bios set to either autodetect or to state a device is there. If you have an ide controller disabled, I guarantee windows will not pick it up. You must be mistaken... It doesn't have to recognize the device (you are right), but it has to know that a device will be available there (not disabled... anything other than disabled) in one form or another. Many cdroms of that era do not have bootable characteristics and do not supply their information on ACK from the bios. It is little suprise that the cdrom isn't recognized in the bios, even if it is functioning correctly. Many bios have an ide option of "CDROM".

He doesn't need another cdrom to test the controller. He has extra hard drives.... use one of those to test whether or not 1) the bios saves changes to the second IDE and 2) whether or not the cables, the controller, etc are working correctly. (as correctly recognized by novacain) At that point is all about finding out whether or not the cdrom is functioning properly. Using the ultimate startup disk mentioned in his previous post on this matter should prove or disprove proper cdrom operation.

>>>Is there any way I can get a better BIOS for this ghetto comp?

Unfortunately compaq is very proprietary, so I highly doubt it. The cmos application written for your computer mainboard is what you have to work with.

>>>I managed to get Windows on the HD at my friends house today...but the CDROM is not being detected....and BIOS still sets it to disabled every time I try and enable it...

There is no suprise.


If your hd can only operate in slave mode due to a jumper missing, then do that. Set the cdrom as master, and put both on the same IDE cable. See if your cdrom will stay enabled as a Primary master when you save changes in the bios, your HD should come up and save as primary slave....

Betazep
05-30-2002, 02:46 PM
>>>And be careful about resetting the bios. Doesn't sound like that would help you at all.

The bios/cmos on his compaq is stored on the HD (pretty strange huh?)... paperclips, machettes, handgrenades, etc do nothing but damage. You can only remove the bios by erasing the partition holding the bios/cmos.

DavidP
05-30-2002, 05:12 PM
Oh, I forgot to write this in my last post. I have tested two CDROM drives with the IDE cable, and this is the result:

CDROM Drive #1, 8x, set to slave:

computer boots up normally....CDROM not recognized by Windows, DOS, BIOS, etc.

CDROM Drive #2, 2x, has no place to even put a jumper, cannot be set by a jumper to slave, master, or c-sel:

computer cannot find any fixed drives on the computer, computer only able to boot to floppy drive.

Betazep
05-30-2002, 06:19 PM
CDROM Drive #1, 8x, set to slave:

How can you have a slave device without a master?

You have a slave hard drive... you need a master along with it. With two devices, you should have no need to run anything on the Secondary cable.

Simple instructions:

Take CDROM Drive #1, 8x and set it to master. Connect top of ide ribbon cable to CDROM Drive #1, 8x. Connect middle of ide cable to slave hard drive. (or any cdrom that can be set to master)

Boot to bios.

Set Primary Master to "CDROM" or "Auto" or "Auto Select" or anything other than a hard disk or disabled.

Set Primary Slave to your hard drive.

This configuration does not utilize the Secondary controller.

Exit saving changes.

Reboot into windows.

Note: You should not and most often can not run a drive as either a slave or a master if there isn't another device on the cable. A slave hard drive is not supposed to be run by itself just as much as a master hard drive is not supposed to be run by itself. If you run one drive on an ide cable, you have to select 'single' with appropriate jumper settings.

Still... since you disregarded everything I said before. This is the final time I note this: If the proposed configuration does not work and you want to use the secondary IDE controller, in order to properly test your cable and IDE controller on the Secondary IDE position, you have to test it with a known good device that can be set to 'single'. Another hard drive is a good way to test it and you stated you have extra. The problem is, we do not know what is good. You have to start eliminating some of the good using common sense. Your still in a situation (from what you divulged) where the BiOS save feature might be bad, the Secondary IDE controller may be bad on board, any number of your cdroms may be bad or improperly configured, your secondary IDE cable might be bad, and your hd is set to slave and cannot be changed without a special jumper thereby needing a master for everything to run properly.

Checklist

Can BIOS configurations be saved?
Is secondary IDE controller working with a single device (not master or slave)?
Is IDE cable working (swap cables to verify)?
Do you have a device that can operate as a master to slave hd?