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stevey
03-25-2002, 11:09 AM
hi
I have passed a course with Computeach and have a cert. in Advanced C programming with Unix.
I have self taught myself C++, and am currently learning Visual C++.
I'm pretty reasonable with Unix.

But I cannot get a job in C/C++ Programming !!!!!!!!!
I have my name and CV with a vast number of agencies and am posted jobs via E mail for programming jobs near to me, at least one per day.
But I can't get these jobs, try as I might , because all employers want min. 2 years experience, and I have none !
I can't find a beginners job at all !!!
ive even told agencies i'll work for virtually nothing, or even nothing to get the experience, but still no offers !!

How on earth do I get out of the Catch 22 situation I am in !!!

yours despondantly
steve green

Govtcheez
03-25-2002, 11:11 AM
Try to get a job as something other than a programmer, and do it at a programming company - maybe you can get moved into programming that way.

stevey
03-25-2002, 11:28 AM
well, mebe i was naive, but i was constantly hearing about the skills shortage in programming !! really, so why can't i find a job ???
why don't IT companies want to train people ????
they seem to just want fully trained, 2+ years experience type people ???
mebe the companies are too small for taking on beginners ???
spec. enquiries to larger companies may be a good idea ??

Govtcheez
03-25-2002, 11:32 AM
> why don't IT companies want to train people ????

Because it takes time and costs money. If you're a company, do you want to pay someone to learn a language, or do you want to pay them to do the work?

Prelude
03-25-2002, 11:34 AM
>so why can't i find a job ???
At the moment jobs in the IT field are scarce.

>why don't IT companies want to train people ????
Because they're hypocrites. They want talented people, yet they're not willing to work for it. And then they ask us to work hard for them :rolleyes:

-Prelude

stevey
03-25-2002, 11:41 AM
well, ive paid for my course, i didn't expect to be trained in a language, ive trained myself.
but where are the jobs for junior programmers (might be different in the US) ?????
can't get the experience is my problem !!!!!!
can't find anyone wanting a newbie with no experience !!!!
so how do i get the experience !!!!!

anyone out there, please help before i'm forced to walk around with a placard "WILL WORK FOR FOOD", "WIFE AND 2 KIDS TO SUPPORT "

Prelude
03-25-2002, 11:47 AM
Be aggressive, go out to companies and give them your resume, even if they're not hiring they still might hold on to your name. You may be one of the first that they call when jobs do open up. If you just sit there hoping for someone to call and hire you then you'll have little luck. Get out there and fight for what jobs there are, even if you have no experience, that kind of attitude will impress employers.

-Prelude

taylorguitarman
03-25-2002, 11:58 AM
I just got a BS in Computer Science and I'm in the same situation. Seems to be plenty of high experience jobs available though. I'm going to be looking for a normal job and if I don't find a programming job in the next year I'm going to grad school and hope the market will be friendlier when I get out.
My advice to the younger programmers is get an internship as soon as you can. I wish somebody would've advised me to do that, maybe I wouldn't be in this situation now. I've got plenty of time ahead though and there will be jobs again so I'm not too worried.

Shiro
03-25-2002, 12:04 PM
I recognize this problem. Two friends, ex-classmates at university, of mine have finished their study and are still looking for a job. Since they have no experience, it is very, very hard to find something.

Software engineering is more than knowing all the ins and outs of a language. A software engineer must also know about software development processes, tooling, projectteam working, know about design and analysis methods etc. An experienced software engineer has practical experience with these things and can be put on a project quite quickly. Someone who is new to the field must learn too much in little time, that's why companies prefer experienced engineers. At least, at this moment.

Some financial experts say that after july/august the market will get better. We'll see.

There still are jobs, mostly at small companies. And they are hard to find.

Deckard
03-25-2002, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by stevey
i was constantly hearing about the skills shortage in programming !! really, so why can't i find a job ???There is a shortage of skill. There does not seem to be a shortage of programmers. A disturbing number of people have degrees or other credentials that indicate they can program, yet they lack the skills to be useful in the workplace. I am not suggesting you fall into this category.


Originally posted by stevey
they seem to just want fully trained, 2+ years experience type people ???
mebe the companies are too small for taking on beginners ???I work for a large corporation and, the last time I spoke to one of our HR guys (about four months ago), we are only hiring people with five or more years experience.

Consider becoming involved in an open source project (SourceForge (http://sourceforge.net/)). Choose something that has relevance to the business world (stay away from helping with video games). This may not look as good as private sector experience, but it counts and you can put it on your resume.

stevey
03-25-2002, 01:17 PM
thanx
all comments taken on board.

i am still depressed though!!!

Aran
03-25-2002, 03:04 PM
I'm afraid only a psychologist can help with that.

Sorensen
03-25-2002, 03:07 PM
>I'm afraid only a psychologist can help with that.

Rubbish. There's always electric shock treatment.

stevey
03-25-2002, 03:20 PM
ive got the back off my pc now !!
think i'll just put my hand in and touch a live wire !!

sigma
03-28-2002, 06:57 PM
I got my programming job with a BS in mathematics. My company was having trouble getting programmers, so they hired mathematicians and converted us. I found out about this from my advisor, the manager that hired me lived across the street from my advisor. I had a job offer in less than a week.

Now www.computerjobs.com has 8300 job listing. My company was just sold to L-3 communications. The old owners had its job listings at www.rayjobs.com.

Now if any of you would want to relocate to Texas, send me your resume. You will need to be a US citizen and must be able to get a security clearance. Now I have no idea how the other groups at work are doing with manning, but in my group, we have contracts already awarded to keep us busy for the next six years. Now if any of you would be interested in System Engineering positions, our System Engineering is only staffed at 80%.

Now if you read this now, and are interested, watch the History Channel in 5 minutes, the items shown from the Air Force are what gets developed out here.

Stevey: My old company, Raytheon, has a contract with the RAF called Astor. After initial development is done in the US, the remainder of the work suppose to be done in the UK. I do not know if it is Raytheon in the UK or a UK company that is doing the work in the UK. If you check the financial web sites, you should be able to find the news releases that list the partners in the program. (We hired 70 engineer just for this project.)

SilentStrike
03-28-2002, 08:39 PM
Seems like my hopes to getting some interneship with only one year of college is simply naive then?

sigma
03-28-2002, 09:18 PM
Seems like my hopes to getting some interneship with only one year of college is simply naive then?
Actually no, but it depends on the company. An intern in my group started last January and he is a Freshman in college.

stevey
03-29-2002, 10:16 AM
thanx Sigma

looks like there are better job prospects in the US, than where i am, but also i didn't say but i'm 33 and have retrained in programming after many different jobs in engineering/steel-making. i think they look at my resume and think i'm an "old git" and chuck it away !! especially since there are younger people available with more experience.

sigma
03-29-2002, 11:58 AM
I spent nine years in the military before I went to college. I started programming when I was 32. Entering the workforce with a little bit a age gives you maturity that many companies are looking for.

stevey
03-29-2002, 12:45 PM
well i certainly dont think we're on the scrap heap at 30 !!!!!!!
i hope somebody out there appreciates my age and wisdom,
when i get a few years experience there are loads of jobs near me, i wouldn't even have to relocate. gotta get a year or 2 under my belt but it seems to be tricky......