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View Full Version : Anti-Copy Bill Slams Coders



Mbrio
03-25-2002, 07:19 AM
Read and weap people:

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51274,00.html

I'm still shaking in terror. Please give your comments.

Esparno
03-25-2002, 11:59 AM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*crawls into the corner, curls up into a fetal position, starts crying softly and under his breath keeps muttering, "its all over, its all over, its all over..."*

Unregistered
03-25-2002, 02:25 PM
"But the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act (CBDTPA) would also wreak havoc on programmers and software companies -- both those distributing code for free and those selling it. "

does that mean that "Open Source" Will become *illegal*?!NOOOOOO!

ygfperson
03-25-2002, 03:01 PM
here's another article about it:
http://news.dmusic.com/article/4630

i liked this quote:
Sources in DC tell me the bill doesn''t have a snowballs chance in hell, but then again we thought the same thing about the DMCA didn't we? Now is the time to let your Senators know that this bill must not and can not pass.
how many of you will mail a letter or e-mail to your senators? (of course i'm talking to americans only)

//edit: i've just e-mailed my senators

Unregistered
03-25-2002, 03:08 PM
but i live in canada, so it wont effect me...:D

salvelinus
03-25-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Unregistered
but i live in canada, so it wont effect me...:D
Well, you might have to stay in Canada. Remember that Russian programmer who came to a convention here and was arrested because the Russian company he worked for made a legal in Russia program to copy Adobe files.

Mbrio
03-25-2002, 03:23 PM
For those who don't live in the US (including me) it might have implications aswell. Especially Europe has a lot of treaties with America thru wich the US could enforce these laws beyond its boundaries.

Besides that it will also slowdown the rate of development inside the US wich will also effect people from abroad.

incognito
03-25-2002, 04:19 PM
Ok I was blowing some steam there, well I don't like it and I think is unfair, it kinda makes you want to move to another country

VBprogrammer
03-25-2002, 04:24 PM
In the words of many a glasgow ned "Ha.. Check ye!"

There having a laught right. The whole point in open source is you dont care who copies it. By god you americans are weird.
(no offence intended). If they think everyone who makes a "hello world" program and sends it to their friend will write a whole copy protection routine, they got another thing coming. I've no doupt there will be segnificant changes to this before it becomes law (as in the case of a bill in america which, the way it was worded, would have ment every vintage military aircraft would have to be destroyed). I wouldn't panic if i where you!

biosx
03-25-2002, 04:47 PM
I read this earlier and didn't think twice about it. It's very dumb and doesn't seem like it would work. Two of the scenarios on this thread show why it wont:

First (by Unregistered): The idea of Open Source. If this bill goes through, either Open Source will be considered illegal (in US) or there will be a wave of people supporting Open Source.

Second (by VBprogrammer): A person writes a small program (whether it's a Hello World or a simple program that does something useful). That person posts it online or sends it to his/her buddies. Very innocent, but still considered illegal.

I don't think we have anything to worry about, but just in case start sending out emails. ;)

DavidP
03-25-2002, 05:06 PM
Stupid government...

This bill, like others have said, would pretty much end open source in America.

Just think about it...no more programming books, unless they had that proper copyright thingymajigger, could be sold, because they all have open source in them. Linux would be illegal to download. In schools, students couldn't share code they are working on and "new" discoveries they have just found with their friends.

In a sense it would even be illegal to write code on a chalk board, but I doubt the government would get that anal about it.

But how can they define code? Everything on a computer is just an arrangment of bits, and can be interpreted in different ways. The programs we have interpret those bits in certain ways, but what if a new OS came out that used the exact same format of an MP3 file, but for a totally different purpose, like a text document. It's all just arrangment of bits. So how can you determine what is code? You can always easily change the format of files. You could easily create a new programming language that is so complex it resembles pure English. Would English be considered code then? Of most of that would never happen...but still...the realm of computers is undefined...

Stupid government...

Aran
03-25-2002, 05:26 PM
THis anti-open source movement is such a load of bullcrap.

Why is open source bad? give me one reason (not breaking the liscence agreements). I think it betters us all as programmers to have it legal and working. THe government doesn't know what the hell it's doing and it should keep its hand in its own pants. sheesh.

Syneris
03-25-2002, 07:03 PM
what about html? almost every browser has the ability to view html source code. does this mean the web will become illegal!?!

copyright protection is given to all original works, published or unpublished! I believe that this law would directly violate my personal rights.
http://www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ1.html#wci


Section 106 of the 1976 Copyright Act generally gives the owner of copyright the exclusive right to do and to authorize others...To distribute copies...To display the copyrighted work publicly...
it says EXCLUSIVE!

Govtcheez
03-25-2002, 07:06 PM
> what about html? almost every browser has the ability to view html source code. does this mean the web will become illegal!?!

No - a web page isn't a program.

ygfperson
03-25-2002, 07:52 PM
a snowball's chance in hell pretty much sums it up

Hillbillie
03-25-2002, 08:21 PM
>copyright protection is given to all original works, published or unpublished! I believe that this law would directly violate my personal rights.<

You're right. I just hope this is brought to Congress's attention...

Aran
03-25-2002, 10:11 PM
haven't you people ever heard of Itellectual Property laws?

by law, if you THINK of something before someone else, the idea belongs to you! what the hell is that?

(you also can't take a shower naked in florida legally or play the fiddle in boston legally, go figure)

novacain
03-26-2002, 01:11 AM
>>the Motion Picture Association of America and the Recording Industry Association of America hailed the CBDTPA as the only way to prevent the continuing Napsterization of their businesses.

The big corporations want it. Be careful they don't, as is usual, get it.
Remember, they don't want open source, they want you to pay for all data and want to be able to sell video and music directly on the net.

Will apply to all DIGITAL data, including programs, music, and images.
Think of the additional costs of compliance. Who will be able to afford it and who wont? Who pays to put your politicians in the white house? Who will get what they want?

>>copyright protection is given to all original works, published or unpublished!

Ha ha ha. Only if a you can prove the loss of income, no loss no copyright infringement is enforceable, let alone the cost of the lawyers.
Regardless you will not be able to distribute your work without the data protection. Just as you can not copyright an illegal / malicious program (ie a trojan), you will not be able to copyright your work without a compilance with the new CBDTPA.

Remember, it has just become law in the US, that if I send someone in another country a virus and it passes thru a US server on the way, I am liable for prosecution in the US.

Govtcheez
03-26-2002, 08:49 AM
> how many of you will mail a letter or e-mail to your senators? (of course i'm talking to americans only)

Did last night.

If you're under 18 - lie. They're not gonna care if you can't vote.

zeckensack
03-26-2002, 08:53 AM
Another point of view:
http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2002/03/020325_CBDTPA/020325_CBDTPA.htm

no-one
03-26-2002, 12:50 PM
this sounds just like the SSSCA which in fact was mostly authored by whom????DISNEY!!!!!!!!!! who if you had payed attention you would already know was evil.

but the SSSCA died in the US House of Representatives' Judiciary Committee and it did virtually the same thing so i doubt this will get through either.

>but i live in canada, so it wont effect me...

you'd like to think that, but try and release software without copy protrction here and see what happens, another thing you may not realize is a lot of other contries will follow suit unfortunatly.

> No - a web page isn't a program.

some people might beg to differ.

untill they see the extremes this can be taken to(like the DMCA for example) they will not realize the ramifications.

ok this bill is a contridiction in itself when it comes to opensource and in the end open source will lose and vanish, and another thing you might want to know, theirs talk of a bill that will make companies(eg also lone programmers) liable for faulty or insecure software, so in theory if you copy protection does not work then you may be held responsible for the actions of all its users and therefore SCREWED FOR LIFE!

btw: it this **** passes i may just quit.

actually thats not a bad idea! do you realize what would happened it programmers went on strike!

Govtcheez
03-26-2002, 12:54 PM
>some people might beg to differ.

I write:
<marquee>Word up, G-money</marquee>

and it's a program? It's no different than highlighting crap in word and changing the font. Unless the page uses JSP or something like that, it's not a program.

> actually thats not a bad idea! do you realize what would happened it programmers went on strike!

That's actually a sweetass idea.... Is there such thing as a programmers union?

Mbrio
03-26-2002, 04:40 PM
I beleive the bill actually covers code, not just programs. So that would include html too. But I wonder wether there is such a thing as copy protection for html... I don't think so.

<off topic> That would mean, that html would have to be changed, resulting in a new kind of browser that everybody would have to upgrade to. Wich in turn would probably solve all our incompatibilty problems with html, so that wouldn't be a bad thing... :) </off topic>

About the strike, :)...

BTW. the article speaks of a "million angry geek march on the capitol", wich would also make a pretty scene... Maybe we could add a little lan party in the senate while we're at it.:eek:

incognito
03-26-2002, 04:50 PM
Would it be possible for one of you or something to make some kind of database and put it online where everyone who's against this could go and put their names and email and then we all send them all this with a letter ofcourse to a congressman or something?

-KEN-
03-26-2002, 06:45 PM
> actually thats not a bad idea! do you realize what would happened it programmers went on strike!

That's actually a sweetass idea.... Is there such thing as a programmers union?

You suck, I've mentioned that about 3 times here already and noone ever noticed it. Pay attention to meeee!! Look at meee!! Love meee!!!! Bah! I'm going over to flashdaddee to lock lips with hillbillie ::grumble::

Scourfish
03-26-2002, 07:26 PM
Well, if this did pass, than your average police officer wouldn't care if somebody was passing around some freeware program they made, but companies such as Adobe might; think of what they could do if they were able to shut down the GIMP.

novacain
03-26-2002, 08:46 PM
Theres talk of a IT / programmers union in Aust.

Driven by contractors who are sick of the recruiters taking up to 50% of our wages as a fee.

If we strike it will mean that they just outsource to say India (as our government threatened).

Also, if you need this compliance to sell software in the US, making it cheaper to write elsewhere (and more expensive to export US software). What will that do to the US IT industry?

Will you all just be adding in the secutity to code produced else where?

>>than your average police officer wouldn't care if somebody was passing around some freeware program
Point being you could not. Hardware would not run software without the correct protection (until cracked and then everybody would care).