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jinx
03-23-2002, 07:30 PM
views anyone? How do you feel about it?

shtarker
03-23-2002, 08:17 PM
Sometimes you just have to use it.
Like last year, gross incompetence from the teachers at my school meant that I had to use visual basic for my programming assignments. I don't want to spend money on an overpriced and buggy programme that I don't even want.

SilentStrike
03-23-2002, 09:15 PM
Then stay after school to use it.

I think piracy is another form of theft.

shtarker
03-23-2002, 09:35 PM
I couldn't.
The computer rooms are closed and locked as soon as the class ends. There was absloutly no other way I could have possibly done the assignemnts.

taylorguitarman
03-23-2002, 10:00 PM
I always wanted to be a pirate. ARRRR. Walk the plank.

Seriously, I don't condone it but I think most programmers have used pirated material at some point in time. I've gone through my share. Most of the time there are great (if not better) free alternatives so you really shouldn't.
Not everyone has the same morals though.
Do unto others...

tim545666
03-23-2002, 10:21 PM
I download a lot of my software. I don't think I should have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy software that I'm just going to fool around with. If I make money off of it, I will buy it.

jdinger
03-23-2002, 10:33 PM
I try to buy at least one shareware app/game every 3 months or so. Only from smaller developers/studios and it has to be something I can really use/enjoy.

I have used a few cracked apps before but only from MAJOR companies. I know that doesn't make it right, that's just something I'd done in the past.

Since I started programming a few years ago my opinion of pirated software has definitely changed.

ygfperson
03-23-2002, 10:40 PM
Since I started programming a few years ago my opinion of pirated software has definitely changed.
which way?

i've never used pirated software... not from over the internet, anyway. i've abused winzip's shareware: 90 days and counting. one cd of windows is used at all 3 computers at home, not to mention work. half-life is sorta-pirated... it doesn't require the cd to be in the cd slot, so i haven't had to copy it. it's too hard to get stuff like that over the internet.

GodLike
03-24-2002, 10:16 AM
The most of my softwere is piracy

i dont think i need to spend a lot of money
for this

and i can get it free

its not right

but what can i do

i ahve now a lot of software like
WinXP
officeXP
NORTON ANTI VIRUS 20002

and athors free

this programs make my computer better
and it cost thousends of dollars

and i dont have them

klausi
03-24-2002, 01:19 PM
Why should poor students by expensive Microsoft-Software?
If all software were so expensive, how could they learn anythink related to it?
I think that this makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

klausi

GodLike
03-24-2002, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by klausi
Why should poor students by expensive Microsoft-Software?
If all software were so expensive, how could they learn anythink related to it?
I think that this makes the rich richer and the poor poorer.

klausi


True
if the studet dont have anaugh money to all the stuff
he will not get good education

jinx
03-24-2002, 03:10 PM
And......as for me, not to bragg, and thanks to Kazaa, have much of it. Well over 10 thousand $s. Practically all of Macromedia's stuff, Sonic foundry's apps @ 499.95 a pop, and misc stuff like Evidence-elimenator and MS vb & MSVC++. Sooo....Go Pirates? (For those who opsose it, take the last as a cheer for the football team, eh?)........-

nvoigt
03-24-2002, 03:32 PM
When I did not earn money on my own, I had a lot of pirated games, because I couldn't afford it. When I started programming as a job, my view on piracy changed completely. I buy all games I play now. I don't play many, I tend to buy strategy games that last a long time, like Civilization, or play games on the net that are quite cheap like CS or DoD ( free if you have HL and thats 15$).

However, I do copy stuff if I don't have another chance to get it. For example "Band of Brothers". The show was aired in the US in September. I have no clue if it will ever make it to Germany. And if it does, I don't want the cut, badly syncronised, shortened dvd version with additional finnish subtitles. I only want the US tv version. And we won't get it anyway soon, so I copied it. Or my latest favorite song... the video is out on MTV and VIVA ( german music tv ) but the single will come in three weeks. Three weeks. I would gladly pay for it, but I don't want to wait three weeks to get it. I want it now ! ( Lambretta - Bimbo... check it, great stuff )

Obviously it is possible to bring out films simultanously all over the world. If I have to wait 6 months until it comes to Germany, why should I wait if I can get the English version from filesharing tools ? If I need a song on sunday, where should I go when all shops are closed ? When my demand isn't satisfied, and I cannot reach my goal through legal means, I will copy stuff.

However, I don't really understand people who copy it because they don't want to pay money for it. These people are simply thieves in my oppinion. If you can't pay it, it's one side. If you are too greedy to pay it, or shouldn't own it at your age anyway, you are a thief.

dbaryl
03-24-2002, 03:36 PM
I haven't used any of pirated software (yet), but sometimes I wish I did. Just don't know if I will be paying the thousands of dollars for the software that I can "get for free"... it is stealing, but I can normally justify installing the same program over a couple of machines... don't think anyone really buys a separate copy of office for every computer they own.

GodLike
03-24-2002, 03:39 PM
maybe i will buy games and stuff in the future when i will earn money by ny self , and i am not sure

but now i am 16.5
in the 10 class
i can afford the software i have now for free

i know it is not good an in the end u hurt my self
but what can any body do aabout this

Aran
03-24-2002, 04:05 PM
i don't have a single pirated game on my system anymore... i think that games are just a waste of time to DL in massive quantities... the only things i've pirated are tools that there is no way in heaven or hell i'll be able to pay for and still have a livelyhood.

jdinger
03-24-2002, 05:24 PM
Originally posted by ygfperson

which way?


I buy shareware when I can and try to support other developers instead of pirating software, whereas I use to abuse shareware, etc. with no concern for the developers who wrote it.

Fountain
03-24-2002, 05:25 PM
well, I just completed a study on piracy for University and its not all as glorious as you lot say..some people quote they use 1 copy of XP on 3 machines at home-do they use them at same time? If so you are stealing I guess..........I am in UK and the mention of the student ideals is also misguided..I was able to buy (as you do) a student licensed version of software which included Borland 5.5 proffesional...at really cheap prices. Then, if I need to I can use Universities office XP or machines at no cost to myself. Remembering the fact that in certain countries just ONE copy of a software title can keep the whole POPULATION happy, is hard to take in..ie nearly 100% piracy rates...makes you think does it not? Oh and yes I have had pirated software in the past, like EVERYBODY else. If we all want LOWER prices..we know what to do right?

klausi
03-27-2002, 12:06 PM
Use Linux, and you have a lot of software standing under the General Puplic License (GPL) and you wonīt do piracy anymore.

klausi

Sentaku senshi
03-27-2002, 04:58 PM
I try my hardes not to pirate unless I can justify it within my own reason, and it does not include I can't afford it.

1. Office 2000 -came with my dadís computer, nothing prevents me from running upstairs and using there. Microsoft lost nothing on this.

2.Pariton Magic- Iíve only used this program twice, I plan to buy a legal copy after I get a few more things for my computer.

3. Windows 98- well not installed on my computer any more, it was from my dadís computer and it falls under the same category as office.

---------That is it
I own a legal version of Windows XP professional


As for the people who say they can't offer compilers and such there are student versions of both Borlandís, and Microsoftís compilers for reasonable rates. You do need to shop around.

Also itís a school project the introductory editions should be able to work. Yes I realize that they have a stupid pop up, but that should not matter.

Unregistered
03-27-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by Aran
i don't have a single pirated game on my system anymore... i think that games are just a waste of time to DL in massive quantities... the only things i've pirated are tools that there is no way in heaven or hell i'll be able to pay for and still have a livelyhood.

We think like a couple of Siamese twins, Aran. I stopped downloading games long ago and I just recently deleted
my all-time favorite game because I found myself playing
it constantly and not doing other things I should be doing.

So now there's nothing for my to do except what I need to
study and my shareware game of Hearts, which distracts me
only about ten minutes at a time.

I think games are a waste of time unless you play them on a network socially with other human beings.

rick barclay

Cruxus
03-27-2002, 05:52 PM
I oppose software piracy morally. I feel that, if one does not wish to pay for a particular piece of software, one always has the option of free, open-source applications.

If I would like to work with graphics on my computer, but I could not afford or would pay for a copy of Adobe Photoshop, I would look for alternatives: There are many less expensive products, a "light" version of Photoshop, and, of course, the GIMP (the GNU Project). People who hate Microsoft's desktop operating system monopoly are being thiefs and hypocrits when they run illegal copies of Windows on their computers instead of an alternative, such as Linux, BSD UNIX, BeOS, etc.

I would like to mention that, in the past, I have not lived up to these ideals. I had a copy of Neco Mak's WinZip shareware (http://www.winzip.com/), which I never registered, even past the thirty-day evaluation period. Another shareware product I have used without registering is mIRC (http://www.mirc.com/); fortunately, free alternatives do exists (e.g., Chatzilla; http://www.mozilla.org/). Also, a few years ago, I ran emulated versions of NES, SNES, and Game Boy games on my computer. None of these things I do anymore, and I advise against others' doing it.

lightatdawn
03-28-2002, 02:11 PM
I'm dead against it. Someone said that its like stealing... Wrong. It is stealing. Just because its easy doesnt mean its not the same thing. I bought my full version of VC++ 6.0, and all the compilers I've had before it. And its not like i really had the money to just rhow around. I just made it a priority and did it. I wanted a car too, and i got one, but i didnt go out and steal my neighbours.

I'm all for Demos and Shareware because I'm not about to pay money for something that i havent seen. Same as you can test-drive a car before you buy it, likewise you should be able to test out any piece of software first. There are plenty of free alternatives to just about everything you could want... Trust me... I use most of them. :)

vasanth
03-28-2002, 11:21 PM
I am suing the computer from past 6 years.. And i have never paid for any of the softwares i use so far.. All pirated..



WIndows 95
Windows 98
WIndows 98se
Windows ME
windows XP pro

Office 97
Office 2000
Office xp

Winzip
Win rar

Borland Builder
Visual Studio
Dreamweaver
Fireworks
Flash
COfee cup
and miullions more.. I usually download the shareware and use the crack or the serial from the serials 2000 program.. I really cannot afford all these softwares myself as a studemt.. You may tell me that i can use othe free utilities But i need these.. May be some day when i start earning i will buy all legal versions...

jdinger
03-28-2002, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by vasanth
I really cannot afford all these softwares myself as a studemt..

That arguement has already been shot down. Case in point:

MSVC++ 6.0 Enterprise ranges from $799 (OSI) to $1189 (CDW).

www.gradware.com sells it for $189. Major student discount.



Originally posted by vasanth
You may tell me that i can use othe free utilities But i need these.. May be some day when i start earning i will buy all legal versions...

No offense, but I seriously doubt that. I've heard a lot of people use that arguement but never seen anyone come through on it.

Scourfish
03-29-2002, 02:04 AM
if that damn CBDTPA passes, then it's gonna be my goal to encourage wid(er)spread piracy until Micheal Eisner goes broke and has to give me handjobs at $5 a piece in order to afford the rent on some ****stained cardboard box he'll be living in.

Sentaku senshi
03-29-2002, 08:36 AM
>That arguement has already been shot down. Case in point:

MSVC++ 6.0 Enterprise ranges from $799 (OSI) to $1189 (CDW).

www.gradware.com sells it for $189. Major student discount<

Of course students don't need the enerprise edtion in the first place.

jdinger
03-29-2002, 09:33 AM
I agree students don't need Enterprise Edition. That's what my company bought me to use so that's why I used it as a reference point (I know what we paid for it and a student can get it A LOT cheaper).

compjinx
03-29-2002, 09:58 PM
>That arguement has already been shot down. Case in point:

MSVC++ 6.0 Enterprise ranges from $799 (OSI) to $1189 (CDW).

www.gradware.com sells it for $189. Major student discount<

That is still a lot of money, to much money for some of us.

>Of course students don't need the enerprise edtion in the first place.<

I agree, although a lot of software prices follow the same line so the agrument still stands.

jinx
03-30-2002, 05:48 PM
Of course students don't need the enerprise edtion in the first place.


Well, if you're going to go, go all the way, eh?

blight2c
03-31-2002, 12:31 AM
i like to look at piracy in terms of the free market system. if i steal from the likes of b. gates and b. spears, maybe they'll be less inclined to make more of the crap they have been making. if we bring this argument to it's logical conclusion we'll have musicains (programmers, filmmakers, whathaveyou) producing only the stuff they feel is morally/socially/aesthetically sound and just and not crap that white men between 18-34 buy.

but then i can see us decaying into communism, and you know everyone with a computer will be the first up against the wall. . .

so maybe i should support the ms/gates fund for world domination.

Dual-Catfish
03-31-2002, 11:54 AM
I try not to pirate software.. but when I can't get it by any other means; I'm forced to. I don't have a job, i'm a High School student. I'd rather stay home and learn something then work all day for minimum wage flipping burgers... just so I can purchase a copy of overpriced software.

I buy what I can, as nvoigt said... Half-Life, it's well worth the money, I purchased that. I was using Dev-C++, until I purchased a game programming kit; which came with VC++ intro edition. After using that, I couldn't go back... and I had to get rid of the lame pop-ups. Hence, I downloaded the standard version. Shoot me.

Making two cars is double the price it is to make one car. Making two copies of a software title is the same as making one. Sure, it costs money for research and development, but so does a car.

Nothing is going to stop me from learning what I want to learn. If I feel a piece of software has something to offer me; and it's a reasonable price, I'll buy it. If it's overpriced, I get it anyway.

GaPe
03-31-2002, 01:07 PM
Piracy is like terrorism. You can't exterminate it.

Fountain
03-31-2002, 06:10 PM
hmmm. Possibly piracy is like terrorism...hmmm. Anyhows my point is this..to the anti working student that replied to my post.....I am (as you know) University student..I dont flip burgers, but I work (in a superstore) as many hours as I can ,allowing me to complete my studies. It is a hard balance to manage your time(work and assignments), but maybe you are just a lazy sod, who doesnt want to work hard enough to BUY his software. When I qualify and produce my own work, or team work, I would not like you to rip it off. All this bollox about 1 car, 2 cars nonsense.....If you have 1 car, not more than 1 person can drive it at once can they?! So, why let more than 1 person 'drive' your software at any 1 time? Things cost money o high school students, maybe in UK we sort of know that we have to work for what we want.

Fountain
03-31-2002, 06:16 PM
"Making two cars is double the price it is to make one car. Making two copies of a software title is the same as making one. Sure, it costs money for research and development, but so does a car. ".........hmmm Im pretty sure thats a stupid remark...making two cars does not cost twice as much......THE FIRST CAR COST SOME POOR PERSON MILLIONS in R&D etc, then every other car is run off a line.Software is the same..sure it is copied millions of times to distribute-that is the cheap bit...but what about peoples hard work? DONT rip them off.

VirtualAce
03-31-2002, 09:20 PM
The only games that I have 'pirated' copies of are the oldies. I'm a gamer and have been since 1981 when the PCjr came out. Now thanks to certain sites I can enjoy my Castle Wolfenstein 2D again and other games like them. I have owned nearly all of them at one time in my life, save for a couple hundred of em, and it is good to see them coming back into the limelight. Modern games really irritate me because they focus so much on the graphics, that you nearly get zero game with it. In the old days you had to squeeze everything into a small confined area of memory and some of the oldies have more gameplay, more dynamic campaigns, etc., than the new ones. What gives?? For instance, the old Aces of the Pacific had torpedo bombers, Pearl Harbor sequences, dynamic campaigns, etc. Now I love CFS2, but it lacks in all those areas. I mean c'mon, if Dynamix squeezed all of it into 640 K and 2MB of RAM, why can't MS squeeze it into 256MB? So I go back to the old games simply because they keep my attention longer and because most, not all, are just plain better games than today's breed.

As far as programming, I use NASM for assembly which is freeware (I don't know how, but it is - it is great), and DJGPP which is also freeware. I used to have a uny copy of TC++ 1.01, but now Borland has release it as public domain so it is not pirated anymore. I do have VB6, not installed, and loads of other compilers from the internet, all old DOS QB, VB, Pascal, etc. Granted the QB and VB for DOS are not public domain, but gimme a break, no one is losing money on my copy trust me. As far as VB6, I have it for educational reasons only, and like I said, it ain't even installed right now cuz I just don't like it for personal use.

And as far as Windows running on 2 machines in my house. You bet. If I buy an OS, it is not just for me, it is also for my family. I'm not going to buy 5 OS's just so everyone in the family can have their own copy. If the law excludes families as being one entitiy or one user, then there is something wrong with the law. What I buy is for my household and for a company to say otherwise, I think, is a violation of my privacy and of my house. I do not burn CDs for anyone at anytime. The current EULA needs to be revised to allow families that live under the same roof to use the software. One might make the argument for businesses, but to me that seems a totally different area. MS told me that to have MM2 running on my machine and my wife's so we could do multi-player was a violation of the license. I was very polite, but also told her that I have hundreds of games, all bought, and I'm not a pirate - but her suggestion of buying 2 games so we could both enjoy the same one, was ludicrous. It is at that point that I think companies have gone too far with the piracy issue.

Also, the current employees at game companies probably do not even realize how many games their company has the rights to. They don't support them, sell them, or even prob know about them. The only people that care about old games anymore, are gamers like me and people who enjoy browsing the past efforts to see just how far we have progressed today. Personally as a programmer it would be an honor for some gamer to play my old 486 game on his new Athlon or P4 simply because he likes the game so much. Perhaps these companies are sitting on gold mines and could re-release some of the oldies or re-vamp them. Hey if it ain't broke, don't go trying to fix it right?

All in all, piracy irritates me. Lots of people on AOL ask me to hack, pirate, give them CD keys, etc. I tell them to stop making my price go up and go buy the game. Heck if you wait for long enough you can buy the game for $20 and get the patches and expansion packs with it. There is never a just cause to pirate a recent game. Programmers deserve to get their pay. So I agree that if you are copying game, apps, utils, etc. just so you do not have to pay, you are a thief. It's really all about your attitude towards paying or not paying. I'll pay myself - better support, better product, better security, better deal.

vasanth
03-31-2002, 11:12 PM
I am in india.. For every hour of work you get paid juist Rs 50 That is 1 $ per hour.. So imagine buying software with that

Dual-Catfish
03-31-2002, 11:22 PM
Fountain, you completly missed my point. Please, go back and read my post before ranting on a paragraph about 'some poor person' losing millions on R&D.


If you have 1 car, not more than 1 person can drive it at once can they?! So, why let more than 1 person 'drive' your software at any 1 time?

This is an impossibility. More then one person can't 'drive' one copy of my software at once. However, they can after I click the 'copy' button; too bad I cannot say the same for a car.

Dual-Catfish
03-31-2002, 11:27 PM
When you pay for a car, you're paying for the steering wheel, tires, rims, windows etc. + Profit to the manufacturer (- the development costs).

When you're paying for software, you're paying for profit to the manufacturer (- the development costs)

Why the hell is software so expensive?

Sentaku senshi
04-01-2002, 05:32 PM
>Why the hell is software so expensive?

You think that microsoft or any software company gets all its money back they put into the software when there is one sold. No, they don't the cost it took to create the software is spread out over a all of the peices of software.

Fountain
04-02-2002, 03:35 PM
""You think that microsoft or any software company gets all its money back they put into the software when there is one sold. No, they don't the cost it took to create the software is spread out over a all of the peices of software.""....PERFECTLY put, and I think that closes the last few arguments nicely...

Fountain
04-02-2002, 03:38 PM
oh wait last point........"This is an impossibility. More then one person can't 'drive' one copy of my software at once. However, they can after I click the 'copy' button; too bad I cannot say the same for a car."" Absolute rubbish..install it on a few of your mates Pc's and there you go...you have not copied it, but they are all using it at the same time...see the point?