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mithrandir
09-15-2001, 06:45 AM
I will.

rick barclay
09-15-2001, 07:08 AM
Love you, stealth. God be with you.

Just out of high school in 1963, I signed up for the navy.
They wouldn't have me, though--I didn't know it at the
time but I'm hard of hearing. I'm 1-y, emergency call-up
only.

rick barclay

mithrandir
09-15-2001, 07:10 AM
Thanks rick, I appreciate that.

Hillbillie
09-15-2001, 10:40 AM
I will NOT sign up to fight. Albeit, I'm only 16, but if I was old enough, I'd vie for jail time. I don't beleive in fighting. Call me a communist or whatever but I just don't beleive killing other people will solve ANYTHING. It'll just make things worse.

Plus, like Rick, I'm hard hearing. I'm legally deaf in one ear, so....

RobS
09-15-2001, 11:49 AM
As I sit here looking at my computer screen, I pause and take off my glasses and can no longer bring the screen into focus to read the words, This ocupled with a complete lack of any skill in aiming, (eben at computer keys in would seem) and my general lack of fitness means that its probably for the best all round that I didn't see front line service. If\when it comes to it I will have nothing but the highest respect and admiration for those who do.

Not knowing a lot about military organisation, what kind of non-combatant roles exist? What can those who would like to help do if combat isn't an option for them?

Further tests show that I need to have the monitor 8 inches away from eyes in order to be able to read the screen without my glasses on.

Hillbillie
09-15-2001, 11:58 AM
Rob, I'm almost positive there are lots of non-fighting military roles you can play. I've seen those goarmy comericials and they show this one guy that fixes/maintains computers. That's all he does.


>Further tests show that I need to have the monitor 8 inches away from eyes in order to be able to read the screen without my glasses on.<

Hehe, my friend (he's blind in one eye) has to have paper or the monitor or basically anything 8 inches away with his glasses on to see. His vision is terrible.

CollegeGirl
09-15-2001, 12:50 PM
hello? do you guys really want war??? or you think you'll be safe wherever you are??? just incase you didn't know that Afghanistan got nuclear weapons so if you started war that will cause more innocent people to die in both Afghanistan & the U.S actually all over the world! get real people! :mad:

mix0matt
09-15-2001, 01:07 PM
just incase you didn't know that Afghanistan got nuclear weapons
We're did you hear this? Afghanistan is barely a nation state. There's hardly any government there at all. They have no nuclear capability at all. Are you thinking of Pakistan?




if you started war that will cause more innocent people to die in both Afghanistan & the U.S actually all over the world! get real people! If war is necessary to defend our way of life and our country then SO BE IT!! What to you suggest we do? Sit down and dicuss. Work things out. These people are blinded by a deep hatred of the United States. They want no comprimise. They have declared a holy war against us. More people are going to die regardless of what we're going to do...Can't you see that? They're already at war with us. You don't think the free world should do everything in it's power to stop them?

I'm truely worried about this so called "resolve" i've been hearing so much about. Our goal of a world free from terrorism surely will cost lives. That's what's called a sacrifice. Our grandfathers and fathers made sacrifices in World War II. They understood they're duty. It seems many Americans these days aren't willing to sacrifice too much for they hold dear. They take it for granted. I think American life is something to fight for. If necessary i will die for it. Militant islam is prepared to die for their cause. If we are not, tragedy will haunt us forever.

mxr

CollegeGirl
09-15-2001, 01:16 PM
i'm not saying do nothing but what i'm trying to say is war aint good just find the people that did that & punish them not the entire world

compjinx
09-15-2001, 02:40 PM
I am only 14
I would if I could, but I can't so I won't

rick barclay
09-15-2001, 02:41 PM
For all you folks who choose not to sign up to fight---that's no
problem. As a child of the sixties, many hippies (and others, I
might add) ran off to Canada and other safe havens as a matter
of principle to avoid fighting in a war that was clearly unjust and
unAmerican.

Today, we're faced with a different kind of war that will be fought
no matter what we people here decide to do. If you are an
American you can contribute to the struggle in other ways
besides going off to fight. All I would ask is that you stick
around, if possible, and contribute something to help. If you
cannot, whatever your reasons are, then you can't. I for one
won't hold it against you. I really can't imagine this thing playing
out as a conventional war. There's nothing conventional about
the tactics of our enemy. Like Vietnam, there will be much
posturing by the enemy complaining about how America dosen't
play fair but massacres little children and their mothers and
old defenseless men. So, we'll certainly start by using our
air power and where we go from there is anybody's guess.
Surgical strikes. Short occupations of certain cities or remote
mountain areas. Can we team up with the Russians? Highly
unlikely, even though it's more in Russia's interest what we're
doing than our own. China? Out of the question. They'll sell
us their crappy excuses for merchandise and make a bundle
and damn us to hell while we look the other way. Japanese
will thank the Sun God their Constitution forbids their participation in
foreign wars. India? India's an interesting case. They are
Pakistan's sworn enemy. They have many, many, many assets
and people working in this country and Canada. We need the
Indians on our side. I see no reason why they shouldn't be
willing to help us strategically fight this war. Pakistan? I have no
idea. One thing I've learned as a human being is to respect and
cherish my friends and ignore those who show no liking for me.
We should do the same as a nation. Until they prove otherwise,
all muslim nations should at least secretly be considered enemy--
this includes Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, all of Africa.
When the war is over maybe we can be friends. Europe? Has
already invoked Article 5 of the NATO Treaty, so I would assume
they're on our side for the duration, which was definitely not
the case during Vietnam. Canada?:) --they dislike Americans,
some to the point of hate, but they'll join us, because our
memory is as good or better than theirs. Same goes for
Mexico. Central and South America? They'll cooperate--and step
up cocaine production. It is critical at this time, in my humble,
uninformed opinion, for us to close our borders with Mexico
and Canada until we know it is safe to allow foreign traffic to
flow into this country again. I also think we should actively pursue
illegal aliens in this country and ship them back where they came from.
All Middle Easterners should be monitered as closely as possible,
as closely as the Germans and Japanese were during WWII. If we
are serious about winning this war, we should treat all potential
enemies as probationary citizens until it is safe to ignore them.
This is something we don't want to do and find reprehensible to
our principles, but it is in everyone's interest, theirs included,
to make sure a repeat of this week's horror is never again.
When the war is over and we have won, we might even show
some special recognition to our eastern Americans for their
understanding, cooperation, and special sacrifice. But we must
as a nation tighten up our home defenses, because that is
where we have been most vulnerable and hit most often. We
look like fools right now. Imagine training the terrorists right
here in America to fly the planes that destroyed so many lives!
Hijacking the planes with knives and boxcutters! These aren't
the Germans of 1939 we're fighting here, these are street urchins
who took advantage of us!--hustlers! We were hustled by these
miserable lice. But we have to be more careful.

rick barclay

Hillbillie
09-15-2001, 02:48 PM
Thanks Rick. I'm glad you respect my decision. A lot of people would call me un-patriotic. That's not it. I just don't beleive in killing _any_one. Although, I guess I wouldn't mind helping in other ways like maintaining computers like I mentioned earlier...

Zach L.
09-15-2001, 03:22 PM
Nice article Rick. I especially agree about closing our borders for the time being. Those are by far our weakest points. The Canadian border is espeically weak (no offense to anyone Canadian) simply because we trust the Canadians and therefore have an unguarded border.

If I did end up in the armed forces, I would much rather be there for technical support instead of front-line action.

mithrandir
09-15-2001, 05:57 PM
Well its good to see that people would be willing to help, if not necessarily in combat.

Anyone who thinks there won't be a war is kidding themselves (no offence). I don't want it to happen, but it looks as though it will anyway.

mithrandir
09-15-2001, 06:15 PM
If war is necessary to defend our way of life and our country then SO BE IT!! What to you suggest we do? Sit down and dicuss. Work things out. These people are blinded by a deep hatred of the United States. They want no comprimise. They have declared a holy war against us. More people are going to die regardless of what we're going to do...Can't you see that? They're already at war with us. You don't think the free world should do everything in it's power to stop them?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson

gamegod3001
09-15-2001, 06:32 PM
I'd would sign up but I don't know what I would do.

I mostly would not fight do to medical reasons and by the time I turned 18 I think computers would be unused. I just don't want to collect food.

DavidP
09-15-2001, 08:30 PM
I would not sign up voluntarily, but if I was drafted, I would definitely go. Even if I did not believe in the cause that we were going to war for, I would still go if I were drafted because it is simply my duty to go as a citizen when drafted. And I would do my best while out there.

Dissata
09-15-2001, 09:47 PM
I would

not old enough yet, but I would

I can't believe half of you!

what! too scared to fight against someone who has wronged you?

damnit! you have had your freedom handed to you all your life and when you a threatened in those freedoms you make excuses!

think about,
take one good long moment and think about it!:mad:

you don't have to fight, just be willing!

the other half, well
that is what I like to here!:)

doubleanti
09-15-2001, 10:23 PM
i don't know how to react to all this. for some reason my patriotism is relatively high, probably from what the general mood has been around school and on the television. in principle i wouldn't want to fight, but part of me says to do it if a draft ever got reinstated. this is interesting. in the end, i will not have voted on this poll...

[i should make a new disclaimer about my involvement in future war: lack thereof opinion...]

Scourfish
09-15-2001, 10:38 PM
If I was drafted, I'd go, and I'd take no prisoners. I don't care if it is man, woman, or child, those afghans were celebrating our attack, and shall be reprimanded for it. I point everybody to go read the Aesop fable about the Drummer in the Army.

rick barclay
09-15-2001, 11:11 PM
It's simple, d.a.. Thanks to Osama, we're climbing out from
under our post Vietnam funk back into the sunlight of a
positive attitude about our country. We just have to be careful
and make sure this isn't an hallucination. We are still the
Microsoft of the world and the object of much condemnation
from both within and out of the country. To give you a painful
example: my favorite internet radio station--bluesboy.com
which is located in Maine is giving regular weather reports
for Kabul! I may be reading it wrong; I may be reading it right;
but something stinks very foul in my mind about that.

But out of Tuesdays nightmare has come a weird feeling good
about ourselves attitude brought on partly from worldwide
sympathy over what has happened. It's a brief respite from
our self-perception that we are the world's whipping boy, a
feeling of low self esteem brought on by feeling responsible
for all the world's ills. Don't be fooled by the good feeling. It won't
last. There's an extremely tough road ahead of us. We need
to stay angry for as long as we possibly can. That will keep us
vigilant. Too proud and patriotic and we'll lose sight of our
true objectives. We'll become complacent once again and
revert to our pre-war attitude. That's no good. It'll lead us
into another Vietnam-like era, which is what the enemy is
counting on happening. There is nothing glorious in all this
back-thumping and breast-beating. We have to show the
world and ourselves as well that we mean to carry this
through to the end, which may be a long, long way off. It's
nigh time to hunker down and track down our prey and
slay him. Then we celebrate and feel good; not before. Make
sure you know who your friends are.

rick barclay

doubleanti
09-15-2001, 11:21 PM
It's simple funk
I may be reading it wrong; I may be reading it right
the good feeling
to stay angry for as long as we possibly can
you know who...

hmmm... seems to me like i've never heard the idea like that so well expressed without five others jumping on the chance to complain...

mithrandir
09-15-2001, 11:30 PM
I think people will be angry for quite a while yet. Everytime I hear about it, my blood boils.

ps to da - sorry about before - just that someone the other day said something about their account being hacked or something. no harm, no foul right?

doubleanti
09-15-2001, 11:34 PM
no harm nor foul... really? when was this? can you give me a link? that is a major concern... wow... report to the webmaster at once!

sigma
09-16-2001, 12:17 AM
As to the quwstion of signing up to fight, I would not have a choice since I am still in a reserve unit (Mechanized Infantry, so I would be on the front line). I have been involved in the invasion of Panama and the Gulf War. From my experiences, I can tell you that combat is not as glamorous as is portrayed in movies. Soldiers want peace more than anyone else, because we know that when peace can not be obtained, it will be us that will need to sacrifice.

This occasion though is very different. So many civilians have been sacrificed that it is no longer the soldiers who are trained for combat that are being killed. In this war we have no defined front line. This puts everyone on the front line. Oh, for those of you who would go but would rather do some support role, for every soldier in the US Army on the front line, there are 17 soldiers in a support role, so figure the odds of where you would be. As for CollegeGirls comment about nuclear weapons, I have additional training in protection against nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. If I had to choose which one I would rather be used on me, I would choose nuclear, it is easier to survive than chemical or biological weapons. But for the enemy that we will be facing, biological weapons are the easiest for them to obtain, and the hardest to protect against.

Most likely, my brother will be activated in about three months, I expect to be actvated within a year. My 13 year old son has already told me that he wants to join when he is old enough. I just pray that this is over before he is old enough to join. I will fight to get this over with so that my son does not have to carry on this fight, and that all five of my children will be able to live in a world with out fear.

doubleanti
09-16-2001, 12:21 AM
>Soldiers want peace more than anyone else, because we know that when peace can not be obtained, it will be us that will need to sacrifice.

i agree completely... and i suppose that's supposed to be an irony since i don't have your experience, but nonetheless...

oh, and that was a great first post, you probably have a clean record on the thoughtfulness on your posting so far. i know mine wouldn't be for sure... raise my decaying average if you can eh? :p

kermi3
09-16-2001, 12:22 AM
Good Luck and God Bless you sigma, your family, and all of our troops.

doubleanti
09-16-2001, 12:27 AM
>able to live in a world with out fear.

patriotism rises... [insert kermi3s emphasis here...]

ehsiq
09-16-2001, 03:42 AM
hey rick...i think that we should have more politicians like you...
you know....closer to world peace...
my god man! and you are 60 years old?
i feel sorry for the fanatics.

doubleanti
09-16-2001, 10:07 AM
he [he being rick] is 54... unless his birthday passed without him telling us... and i agree, more people whose positive qualities echo those of ricks would be welcomed by me... go rick yeah!

rick barclay
09-16-2001, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by kermi3
Good Luck and God Bless you sigma, your family, and all of our troops.

I second that.
I have a high school freshman boy at home
who I'm thinking about the same way sigma does about
his son.
It's a little sad to say, but my two boys who are or will be
military elegible are complete mysteries to me as far as what
they see for themselves in the future. I guess its time for me
to do a little prying and try to find out where their heads are
at re all this.

rick barclay

rick barclay
09-16-2001, 10:27 AM
I'm 58 ehsiq an d.a., but I was once the same age as just
about everyone else who comes to this board. :)

rick barclay

ehsiq
09-16-2001, 12:51 PM
yes i know rick...still i believe that as old as you get, you get to be
more wise...not happenig to you though.

and doubleanti...of course you understand that i was ironic to
rick...about the politic...
if rick was the president of the U.S.A. he would have started
nuclear war.

Hillbillie
09-16-2001, 01:48 PM
>I can't believe half of you!

what! too scared to fight against someone who has wronged you?<

Scared? LOL, hardly. I'm not scared of getting killed, bro'. I just don't want to kill anyone.

And another thing, no one wronged me personally on Tuesday. They wronged the nation and the people directly affected, but they didn't wrong me. Without the media, I would have never heard what was going on.

Nick
09-16-2001, 01:52 PM
yes i know rick...still i believe that as old as you get, you get to be
more wise...not happenig to you though.

hmm I was wondering why Asimov quit Mensa and
then later rejoined.

ehsiq
09-16-2001, 03:03 PM
what? isaac asimov was MENSA member?

rick barclay
09-16-2001, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by ehsiq
yes i know rick...still i believe that as old as you get, you get to be
more wise...not happenig to you though.

and doubleanti...of course you understand that i was ironic to
rick...about the politic...
if rick was the president of the U.S.A. he would have started
nuclear war.

Why you old buggerer, you. And I mistook your sarcasm for
a compliment :confused:. Mercy on me!

Me--start a nuclear war? What utter nonsense. Do you always
post when you're drunk?

Hey!!! The joiners are gaining on the non-joiners! Pretty soon
we'll have enough to form a cprogramming platoon! Anybody
here know how to program a nuke?

rick barclay

Dissata
09-16-2001, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by Hillbillie
>I can't believe half of you!

what! too scared to fight against someone who has wronged you?<

Scared? LOL, hardly. I'm not scared of getting killed, bro'. I just don't want to kill anyone.

And another thing, no one wronged me personally on Tuesday. They wronged the nation and the people directly affected, but they didn't wrong me. Without the media, I would have never heard what was going on.

if I'n not mistaken you are part of this country, whatever has been done to the country will always indirectly done to you and therefore affect you either directly or indirectly!

mithrandir
09-16-2001, 06:10 PM
From my experiences, I can tell you that combat is not as glamorous as is portrayed in movies.

Yeah that's for sure. My dad is a Vietnam Veteran, and he has told be some awful stuff about his experiences as an infantry soldier. I would still fight though, as I couldn't just sit back and let the world go to **** while I am at home doing nothing. I don't think I could live with myself.

MechanicX
09-16-2001, 07:29 PM
Hey Rick, were you being sarcastic when you wrote the little article on the first page of this thread?

If you were serious, :(



Wise words from a man of peace, Ghandi:
An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind

DavidP
09-16-2001, 07:42 PM
Hey!!! The joiners are gaining on the
non-joiners! Pretty soon
we'll have enough to form a cprogramming
platoon! Anybody
here know how to program a nuke?


Yea! Our own platoon! Maybe we could convince the military to put us all in the same platoon if we all get drafted...

About programming the nuke, I could write int main (void) to get us started...any tracking devices would have to be someone elses responsibility.

Garfield
09-16-2001, 08:10 PM
I would sign up to fight. And I would request to be on the front line.

cozman
09-16-2001, 08:23 PM
if america was a democracy we'd be in a state of rebellion, unfortunately under our current system of government we are powerless, therefore whatever the brass decides to do is what will be done.

But in this situation I support america as of now, but if it comes down to something drastic (nuclear attack) there is no way i can still support us, our nuclear weapons are not the puny things we held in hiroshima, the effect of one of todays nukes would definately permanently destroy a portion (or the entire) world, and if we use a nuclear device then china, pakistan, india, cuba, and every other nation with nuclear power who isn't a big fan of uncle sam will be wanting to use one of theirs, and if even one of those countries uses one (it doesn't even have to be against us) another country will arise and use a nuclear or biochemical weapon. Bottom Line: The world will be destroyed if we use nuclear weapons, so yes i'll fight .but only to make sure that it doesn't happen

mithrandir
09-16-2001, 09:24 PM
I doubt the US will use NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) unless the enemy do first. Even then, I don't think they would such weapons unless there was absolutley no way else (as in WW2).

novacain
09-16-2001, 11:12 PM
The Koran says "An eye for an eye."

The bible says "Turn the other cheek."

What are we as Christian (yeah well) nations going to do?

Bomb the crap out of the Afganistan wilderness?
Send in ground forces? They beat the Russians. (with CIA help) I would not be suprised to find ex USSR nukes in the hands of someone who can organise and _afford_ something like this.

Send in the CIA to train counter terrorists?
Oh, thats how we got into this mess in the first place.

I know someone in our Special Forces, SAS. He has disappeared and says this is it, WW3.

Time to stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!

rick barclay
09-16-2001, 11:40 PM
>Time to stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye!<

Don't forget to flush.

rick barclay

rick barclay
09-16-2001, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by MechanicX
Hey Rick, were you being sarcastic when you wrote the little article on the first page of this thread?

If you were serious, :(



Wise words from a man of peace, Ghandi:
An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind

Does it sound sarcastic? Nobody else thought it was.

:( I guess you don't like it. OK, I'll bite. Why not?

rick barclay

mfc2themax
09-17-2001, 07:29 AM
If we ever do go to war, then yes, I'll sign up.

BARJOR
09-17-2001, 11:27 AM
There is no confirmed reports that Afganistan have nuces. But both Pakistan and India do.
~Barjor

cozman
09-17-2001, 01:35 PM
and christianity and islam are the two largest religions that say that if someone isn't of your religion they will goto hell, so how can i agree with either side.