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View Full Version : Economy crises, Job loss etc etc



ssharish2005
01-26-2009, 07:39 AM
Hello all,

I thought of like asking you all about what the hell is going on out there in other countries. This is just getting worst day by day. The amount of job loss is just increasing. This really scares me :( Since I have been recently been employed and donít want to be job less.

How are your firms doing? Do you see any sign of job loss? So far in my firm there is anything sort of like that, touch wood. But then i know that at some point they would be.

The strange thing is, my company is still recruiting people and they are trying to expand their firm. What really scares me here is that, they know the economy isn't really stable, it's better to save money right now, isn't it.

ssharish

maxorator
01-26-2009, 08:35 AM
The strange thing is, my company is still recruiting people and they are trying to expand their firm. What really scares me here is that, they know the economy isn't really stable, it's better to save money right now, isn't it.
Economic crisis can also be used cleverly. Think about it - if a company is developing something that will sell good even in the current situation, they can get energy, employees, advertisings etc for a very low price. For some businesses, economic crisis is the perfect time to start or expand their company.

ssharish2005
01-26-2009, 08:52 AM
May be your true. But then for the firm I work telecommunication I don't have any clue of whether the telecommunication side of the business has been affected?

And also I have been thinking about this for a while, now since the companies could keep up their credit very well, they started removing their employees to stabilize their profit and the credit.

But why don’t they do something like, reduce the pay for the time being rather than removing the workforce. It is very difficult to find the person who does the job. And if you’re trying to kick him off, and its the firm which is going to be suffering to find the right person again later on.

It is better to keep having some sort of income, rather than no income at all. At least, by that way everyone could be happy.

ssharish

matsp
01-26-2009, 08:55 AM
But why donít they do something like, reduce the pay for the time being rather than removing the workforce. It is very difficult to find the person who does the job. And if youíre trying to kick him off, and its the firm which is going to be suffering to find the right person again later on.

It is better to keep having some sort of income, rather than no income at all. At least, by that way everyone could be happy.

ssharish

Yes, except that this will lead to the "wanted to keep" people leaving, and all the ones who can't get another better job staying, and that is not exactly what the company wishes to achieve when they get rid of people - they want to keep well-working units intact, and get rid of inproductive people [at least in theory - it may not work that well in reality].

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Mats

PING
01-26-2009, 09:23 AM
But why donít they do something like, reduce the pay for the time being rather than removing the workforce.

Working for less pay reduces morale of the work force. This in turn increases the attrition rate. That's why companies prefer to cut jobs rather than reduce salaries. Also, what firm are you working with. I don't know many companies, atleast back in India, that have open positions for freshers. The hardest hit by all this are those who have graduated last year or are going to pass out this year. I am pretty fortunate that placement season in my institute got over before all this started. :)

cpjust
01-26-2009, 10:35 AM
Now would probably be a good time to go back to school if you were planning to upgrade your skills or if you're unemployed. Otherwise, don't quit your current job unless you know for sure you can get a new job before your bank account dries up.

My company is also doing a lot of hiring now.

abachler
01-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Its not just kids getting out of college, I've been unemployed now for 5 months and I have a lot of experience.

Thantos
01-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Hmmm, guess this might not be the time to say that at the recent science and engineering career fair there were a lot of companies looking for Computer Science, Computer Engineering, and Electrical Engineering graduates.

One thing to consider is that if a company is sure that it can weather the current recession then they'll want to keep some continuity in their ranks. I interviewed and visited a company in the fall that did very little hiring in the 90's. Now they are low on mid level people. This is good for new peeps like me though :D

mike_g
01-26-2009, 05:38 PM
At a clueless guess I'd say telecoms is a pretty stable industry, like supermarkets.

Personally I havent noticed a problem, work wont stop battering me with more fun things to do.

If getting a job is a problem tho, its worth being flexible. There seem to be a lot of .net jobs going atm.

abachler
01-26-2009, 07:08 PM
If getting a job is a problem tho, its worth being flexible. There seem to be a lot of .net jobs going atm.

I'd rather scoop my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. .NET is career suicide, similar to JAVA, sure theres work, but its a dead end job. How many radar targetting systems are written in .NET (or JAVA). Its fine for simple applications, but complex multi-tiered/embedded solutions generally require C/C++/Assembly, not .NET/JAVA

brewbuck
01-26-2009, 07:14 PM
I'd rather scoop my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. .NET is career suicide, similar to JAVA, sure theres work, but its a dead end job. How many radar targetting systems are written in .NET (or JAVA). Its fine for simple applications, but complex multi-tiered/embedded solutions generally require C/C++/Assembly, not .NET/JAVA

Depends how you look at it. There's a lot of code being written in .NET languages right now. If you can do it well, why not cash in on it? Just don't bet your career on any single language or platform. That advice goes for everything, not just MS and .NET.

VirtualAce
01-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Thankfully my company is doing quite well and is hiring and expanding. Not to say that could not change overnight but for now it is fine.

It is my firm belief in any economic time that such attitudes as I won't do this or that due to some personal vendetta will get you nowhere much less a job.

A boy does what he wants to and a man does what he has to.

cpjust
01-26-2009, 09:36 PM
A boy does what he wants to and a man does what he has to.

And a rich man does what other people only dream of. :p

abachler
01-27-2009, 12:50 AM
It is my firm belief in any economic time that such attitudes as I won't do this or that due to some personal vendetta will get you nowhere much less a job.

A boy does what he wants to and a man does what he has to.
.

Actually its not so much a 'vendetta' as it is a strategic decision. I only have so much time to spend learning new technologies, I prefer to spend it on those that have the broadest long term application. I don't see .NET as having broad long term applications. So rather than spend my time learning .NET, I can spend it learning e.g. Single System Image OS development, something that has much wider, long term benefits. The world needs ditch digger's, but the world needs engineer's too, and every engineer that you force into being a ditch digger is one less engineer you will have when you need them. I'll leave the ditch digging to the ditch digger's, God didn't give me a 172 IQ so I could program ........ing database's and web pages.

GanglyLamb
01-27-2009, 12:56 AM
Economic crisis can also be used cleverly. Think about it - if a company is developing something that will sell good even in the current situation, they can get energy, employees, advertisings etc for a very low price. For some businesses, economic crisis is the perfect time to start or expand their company.

Plus the fact that if at this point a company starts research into a product even though there is no market at this moment for it. Then at least they will have a stable production proces etc by the time the market is ready for it, so if you dont invest now, other companies might and when this whole thing blows over you have a less firm grip on the market since you are lagging behind competition.

Thats maybe why some companies turn back to their core business, cut of the hands and let the body survive...

happyclown
01-27-2009, 02:15 AM
God didn't give me a 172 IQ so I could program ........

Very impressive. :)

Akkernight
01-27-2009, 03:39 AM
172 o.o! You eather listen too well, read too much or are Einstein D:
And you all worry too much! If you loose your jobs, then go live life! Try all kinds of stuff, and then when you're broke and stuff, you will get a job back, if you try hard enough xP

BobMcGee123
01-27-2009, 06:48 AM
God didn't give me a 172 IQ so I could program ........ing database's and web pages


He also hasn't given you a job for the past five months. I wouldn't want to hire you because you sound like an arrogant ass.

</ego snipe>

cpjust
01-27-2009, 08:00 AM
God didn't give me a 172 IQ so I could program ........ing database's and web pages.

You don't actually say that when you go for job interviews do you?

psychopath
01-27-2009, 08:20 AM
If I'm not mistaken, your IQ only really (accurately) measures how well you learn, doesn't it? Or something.

matsp
01-27-2009, 08:35 AM
If I'm not mistaken, your IQ only really (accurately) measures how well you learn, doesn't it? Or something.

To side track this further: IQ tests ONLY test how good you are at solving IQ tests - nothing else. Now, some are better than others - and the free ones on the web usually aren't!

Many so called IQ tests are not at all IQ tests, but rather skills/knowledge tests.

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Mats

abachler
01-27-2009, 08:47 AM
If I'm not mistaken, your IQ only really (accurately) measures how well you learn, doesn't it? Or something.

The real ones test many different cognitive domains, learning rate, problem solving ability, memory are just a few.


To side track this further: IQ tests ONLY test how good you are at solving IQ tests - nothing else. Now, some are better than others - and the free ones on the web usually aren't!

Many so called IQ tests are not at all IQ tests, but rather skills/knowledge tests.

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Mats
Mats, i believe you are referring to the 'free online ones' when you say they measure the ability to take IQ tests and nothign more. I wasn't rated by those, but rather the professional ones that take several hours in an actual psychiatrists office. You know, ones like WAIS, Stanford-Binet, Catel, etc.

And to sidetrack this even further, in my experience the people who most fervently believe that IQ doesnt matter are the ones with little of it.


He also hasn't given you a job for the past five months. I wouldn't want to hire you because you sound like an arrogant ass.
</ego snipe>

I am an arrogant ass, what of it? It's hard not being arrogant when you are constantly bombarded by the deafening sound of how awesome it is to be me :)

matsp
01-27-2009, 09:13 AM
Mats, i believe you are referring to the 'free online ones' when you say they measure the ability to take IQ tests and nothign more. I wasn't rated by those, but rather the professional ones that take several hours in an actual psychiatrists office. You know, ones like WAIS, Stanford-Binet, Catel, etc.


Whilst the comprehensive tests you mention certainly are better than the free ones on the internet, they still measure your ability to perform those tests - which may or may not reflect well on your ability to do other things. Yes, if you get a high score, you are measurably intelligent.

And no, I suppose I don't "need" an intelligence test - my score on the "skills" test they had at military service in Sweden, I did "middle of the range" on the average, but I had a spread from 3-9 on a scale of 1-9(1="poor", 9="best") for the different tests. I also scored 9 on the fitness test, which I doubt I'd get even close to now, 20+ years later.

--
Mats

Thantos
01-27-2009, 09:17 AM
IQ: The new ePenis


And I'm starting to see why someone is jobless

abachler
01-27-2009, 09:48 AM
Whilst the comprehensive tests you mention certainly are better than the free ones on the internet, they still measure your ability to perform those tests - which may or may not reflect well on your ability to do other things. Yes, if you get a high score, you are measurably intelligent.

And no, I suppose I don't "need" an intelligence test - my score on the "skills" test they had at military service in Sweden, I did "middle of the range" on the average, but I had a spread from 3-9 on a scale of 1-9(1="poor", 9="best") for the different tests. I also scored 9 on the fitness test, which I doubt I'd get even close to now, 20+ years later.

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Mats

Then by that token, a college degree doesnt measure knowledge, only your ability to get a college degree, so we should stop using them as a qualification.

I've heard that arguement many times, it sounds like a fine notion to those trying to justify discriminating against highly intelligent people, but the facts show that IQ does directly correlate to job performance, and while IQ generally improves the success at attaining a degree, attaining a degree does not improve your IQ.

Desolation
01-27-2009, 09:49 AM
And to sidetrack this even further, in my experience the people who most fervently believe that IQ doesnt matter are the ones with little of it.Could you please define me what intelligence is ?

Edit:

And before you try discriminating me, yes I did pass a few IQ tests and got satisfying results.

Edit:

The difference is that when I have an accounting test in which I perform well it means that my knowledge of accounting is above the level of my exam. When you succeed well in an IQ test, it means that your knowledge of.. wait there is no knowledge tested. It may test skills in certain fields but saying it tests intelligence is highly subjective.

Thantos
01-27-2009, 09:50 AM
but the facts show that IQ does directly correlate to job performance
Then why are you jobless?

BobMcGee123
01-27-2009, 09:52 AM
I've heard that arguement many times, it sounds like a fine notion to those trying to justify discriminating against highly intelligent people, but the facts show that IQ does directly correlate to job performance, and while IQ generally improves the success at attaining a degree, attaining a degree does not improve your IQ.


Unless you're such an arrogant ass you can't work with other people...but I guess it's just a cruel society in which there's so many stupid people out there employed in the same field as you, but you've been unemployed for the past 5 months...

My guess is you're mostly full of ...........you sound the way I did when I was 16 man.

stevesmithx
01-27-2009, 09:58 AM
This (Validity of IQ) has been discussed before on other forums
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=88565.

Whilst I agree that a college degree/ higher IQ is important for employment, EQ is important for retaining it, I think.

cpjust
01-27-2009, 11:32 AM
I've found that the higher a person's IQ gets the lower their social skills get, which would explain some of my faux pas.
I'm wondering if there's a connection between IQ and Asperger Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)?

abachler
01-27-2009, 01:19 PM
Could you please define me what intelligence is ?

Edit:

And before you try discriminating me, yes I did pass a few IQ tests and got satisfying results.

Edit:

The difference is that when I have an accounting test in which I perform well it means that my knowledge of accounting is above the level of my exam. When you succeed well in an IQ test, it means that your knowledge of.. wait there is no knowledge tested. It may test skills in certain fields but saying it tests intelligence is highly subjective.

It tests your ability to solve problems that you havenot been given foreknowledge of. So it tests yoru innate problem solving skill. That is specifcalyl why the problems presented are abstract rather than specific to a particular field. It isnt testign knowledge, it is testign Intelligence, they are not the same thing.

abachler
01-27-2009, 01:34 PM
I've found that the higher a person's IQ gets the lower their social skills get, which would explain some of my faux pas.
I'm wondering if there's a connection between IQ and Asperger Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)?

Studies have shown that in general people tend to socialize most effecively with others whose IQ's are within +/- 30 pts. Marriages between individuals whose IQ's are more than 30 pts apart are 6 times mroe likely to fail than the general population. Therefore, IQ's significantly higher or lower than the norm will present the individual with fewer 'effective' social opportunities, and the appearance of being less sociable. With social contacts of the appropriate level, persons with very high or low IQ's are every bit as sociable as the general population.

laserlight
01-27-2009, 01:36 PM
God didn't give me a 172 IQ so I could program ........ing database's and web pages.

It tests your ability to solve problems that you havenot been given foreknowledge of. So it tests yoru innate problem solving skill. That is specifcalyl why the problems presented are abstract rather than specific to a particular field. It isnt testign knowledge, it is testign Intelligence, they are not the same thing.
Makes sense. The Clay Mathematics Institute's prize for the P=NP problem is still up for grabs, and a solution either way could help programmers (one much more than the other, admittedly), so why not go for it? That way you'll be self-employed and a millionaire.

BobMcGee123
01-27-2009, 03:08 PM
Makes sense. The Clay Mathematics Institute's prize for the P=NP problem is still up for grabs, and a solution either way could help programmers (one much more than the other, admittedly), so why not go for it? That way you'll be self-employed and a millionaire.

Similar case with the closed analytical form of the Navier Stokes equations.