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doubleanti
02-17-2002, 01:18 AM
>teach fishing instead of giving out free fish.

good say! that's why i hate responding to code posts, tho they do help... and i usually reply in word descriptions since a lot of the technicality ends up in the users coding preference. [of course, when we do discuss preference, we can still talk with words]... and in my requests from this board [which are too few actually...] i usually speak in ideas, not code... so... good say... all agree?

plus if you describe a sequence to any hmwk-mongers, you _do_ answer the question, but if they can't understand it, then they shouldn't be in their nth week of their programming course anyway! right? right!

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:31 AM
The problem is people don't look at the code you give them. The program I'm working on now has the user enter a password. cout was being a ***** so I decided to use printf(), which I never used before. The rest of the program is C++. Then someone posts a question on the board asking how to make the password type in * not the letters. I posted the code with printf in it. After I do that, someone else asks me to post it in C++, because printf is C (keep in mind this was only 1 or 2 statements). Now this is proof that some people can't sipmly look through code and try to figure out what it's doing. If everyone would just do that, we could all just copy and paste our code with little explaining.

It's much easier to give out free fish :)

BTW, that password thing should be on the FAQ by now if it already isn't.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 01:33 AM
Sometimes, ppl just can't get the code right. It's not that they are lazy and doesn't do their homework or exercise, they wrote the code, but couldn't get it to work. Maybe their books doesn't teach enough or it's just a little logical error that's preventing the program to run correctly. When ppl post code when they have trouble ( like me ), little code snippets and telling me what's wrong really helps, but not having the program re-written and sending it to my email inbox.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 01:34 AM
I agree that some ppl don't bother to think out the code. But other pppl who's willing to think out the code but no one's giving any solution to them, thats not fair is it.

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:37 AM
Yeah, in some cases you're right, but when it's about 15 lines of code with some documentation, you'd at least expect them to ask what a certain line does, not ask you to re-write the whole damn thing.

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 01:38 AM
hmm well my motivation with programming [and math, which is from which i reapply it to programming of...] is that there is an answer, and if someone else can do it, i can too, given time... and if we all had a big-black-book-o-C++ then great. people find solace in the bible, and in the same sense, i find solace in my calculus book... [and/or C:TCR]... [let's not get into religion tho, the point was that you find your answers to your troubles in a an all-knowing book] so...

oh, and dejavu... your replies have happened before... wow...

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:44 AM
there is an answer, and if someone else can do it, i can too, given time... Confident, eh? I differ from that. My approach is why waste time on reinventing the wheel? I'd rather take their answer when I need to and find answers to problems that haven't been answered yet. Call me lazy or immoral if you want, I call myself efficient (and sometimes lazy, too, lol).

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 01:48 AM
>I call myself efficient

i would too. good job... nice idea... that's why i'm pushing my own envelope with my behold stuff... so far as that goes, and it's still satisfying anyhow... and besides that, so far as i know, human memory doesn't have a 64k segment limit, and humans aren't on compact mem module... so if you can understand without squeezing too hard, then you'll be fishing your whole lyfe with it...

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:51 AM
human memory doesn't have a 64k segment limit I agree. It's probably closer to 1028K.


so if you can understand without squeezing too hard, then you'll be fishing your whole lyfe with it... I don't get it...:confused:

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 01:52 AM
BUt one possible reason that someone else can do it might be that he has some certain experience or his book teaches him how to do it. So maybe without extra help, the troubled-person may NEVER find the answer.

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:53 AM
But who teaches the book? Someone had to have come up with it.

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 01:57 AM
okay well let's put the chicken and the egg aside for a moment... let's move the topic to: if humans had a upper cap on memory, would that mean that human potential also has an upper cap? we all have to choose a major when we go to college, and we all have to die eventually... so there is only so much you can do! which is why i never waste any time and make sure i'm havin' fun every second! if i were to pass any moment i'd go 'yeah, my life was great!]... so... i certainly hope the ISO doesn't find out we are just bodies... and if they do, well, i don't know what i'd do... it'd be like finding you had cancer...

tim545666
02-17-2002, 01:58 AM
ISO? What's that?

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:01 AM
The authors of the book has insiders to tell them stuff. And you might ask: Well then who made up the languages?

My answer is: Programming languages and studies are undertaken by whole team of people, sharing ideas and thoughts. But individual programmers only have one brain.

hope u get what i mean.

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:02 AM
I get exactly what you mean. I'm just trying to argue because I like to argue :) . But with enough time, a single person may be able to come up with some, if not all, of those ideas.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:03 AM
Yes. But potentials and resources are very limited.

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:05 AM
Why do you say that? I would say that given enough time and therefore experience some of the smarter programmers would be able to make things you would never dream of.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:06 AM
No one has enough time. But you're right to a certain extent.

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:08 AM
Why only to a certain extent?

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:09 AM
Nothin is certain. One person can't do everything. He needs support, resources and help to succeed.

man u like arguing :o

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:10 AM
Yes I do. I never said on eman could do everything. I just said he could do a buttload. And the only recource he eally needs is time. Time opens all sorts of doors.

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 02:11 AM
ISO is that organization that has all the standards for tons of computer stuff... i wouldn't be surprised if they had Hanes ISO-certified underwear standards... hehe... like, the FCC [federal communications commission] of computer stuff... right? i think so...

and again, if i believed i was limited, _ever_, if anyone was branded beyond their control [which fortunately for me never happens, or hasn't yet at least]... i and they would either live it up while they could, or end it asap... y'know? anyway... so don't give fysh, teach fyshing...

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:13 AM
But giving fish is easier. Plus if you give someone code, they can choose to learn or choose to copy and paste. They only screwing themselves.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:15 AM
If you give someone code, they can choose to learn or choose to copy and paste. They only screwing themselves.


Thats the thing tim545666 said that i agreed totally.

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 02:17 AM
hm, i don't know... it's just that... when someone told me i could do it, y'know, encouragement... that means a lot y'know? so... i don't know, maybe it's just me... [and besides a lot of you guys are, well, guys... so it's easier to just rush rush rush... i don't know...] just... teach please? because it took me the longest time to find that life was on my side, and that i could choose to learn in the first place... okay?...

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 02:21 AM
But hav u experienced how annoyin it is to ask a question and all ppl do is tell u: "you can do it", "do it yourself", "it's easy"...

tim545666
02-17-2002, 02:21 AM
it took me the longest time to find that life was on my side, and that i could choose to learn in the first place... okay?... Making them learn doesn't change anything. It's like force feeding them. Sometimes you have to let somene fall flat on their face to get them to learn.

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 02:41 AM
>"you can do it", "do it yourself", "it's easy"...

okay, now i'm mad... would you stop being so damn pessimistic? sheesh... you'd swear you were ****in' john romero himself... damn...

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 02:42 AM
y'know, nevermind... there are other things at the moment, so... just nevermind...

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 03:20 AM
>"you can do it", "do it yourself", "it's easy"...


Those are the things OTHER ppl say. They're not from me. And stop being mad.

nvoigt
02-17-2002, 07:22 AM
>teach fishing instead of giving out free fish.


Give someone a program and frustrate him for a day, teach him programming and frustrate him for a lifetime.

:D



There are posts where I just correct the code or post an example. But if someone posts code, without posting the errormessages even, just correcting his code will make him come back at the very next errormessage. What we need to teach is how to react to these messages. What they mean. I know I was stumped when my compiler gave out some garbage message, uncomprehendable by all but my C teacher. But this is the first thing to learn. The compiler is almost always right. Ignoring his advice because of lack of understanding it is giving away valueable help.

Also, if I find code for the problem in my helpfile ( MSDN ), I wonder why the one couldn't search himself. Posting the code will make him ask again with the next question. Posting a help how to use a help will enable him to solve his problems himself.

Learning a programming language is a nice thing. Learning how to learn is far more important. Because at one point in your life, there won't be people to ask. If you only get prefabricated answers and swallow them, you will never get better than your teacher.

Nutshell
02-17-2002, 07:24 AM
Maybe we're already better than out teacher? lol :D

doubleanti
02-17-2002, 11:14 AM
>Give someone a program and frustrate him for a day, teach him programming and frustrate him for a lifetime

haha. niice...

also, "if debugging is the process of removing bugs, then programming must be the process of putting them in"... :)