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sean
01-13-2009, 10:16 AM
I've been told by several insiders that since I loved XP and hated Vista - that I shouldn't wait to get my hands on Windows 7. I tried to download it, but it seems that you have to have IE for the download to work. (Now is this the same version of IE that MS was advising people not to use until later this month?)

Anyway - I can probably get it done on my work machine later, but for the time being - who's tried it? What are your thoughts?

CornedBee
01-13-2009, 10:53 AM
One of my colleagues uses it. Looks pretty clean, with some nice UI ideas. Have only looked at it for two minutes, though.

Elysia
01-13-2009, 12:34 PM
I've been told by several insiders that since I loved XP and hated Vista - that I shouldn't wait to get my hands on Windows 7. I tried to download it, but it seems that you have to have IE for the download to work. (Now is this the same version of IE that MS was advising people not to use until later this month?)

Anyway - I can probably get it done on my work machine later, but for the time being - who's tried it? What are your thoughts?

Nah, you can use any browser I reckon--certainly works on Firefox--as long as it supports Java.

I am very pleased with Win7 so far. Huge improvement from Vista performance-wise.
Love the new taskbar - the ability to pin applications most of all perhaps.
It can launch a number of programs simultaneously very quickly.
On the other hand, Microsoft seemed to break some things. The ability to send error reports at a later date instead of directly (I always hate how long it takes, so I typically check for errors later). They also buried it deep, hidden, hard to find. The resource monitor was revamped, but still displays bytes per minute, which is practically useless to me.
The new notification feature is nice - being able to hide icons you don't need/use. Plus being able to shut them up.
Love the aero snap feature (I think it's called that?).
Love the new energy tool that finds what bottlenecks are in your computer that sucks power.

Perhaps there is more, but that is all I can think of so far. All in all, it's a very good and stable OS for everyday use.

audinue
01-13-2009, 01:16 PM
Is XP's drivers compatible with it?

Elysia
01-13-2009, 01:34 PM
Yes and no. I have read reports that some XP drivers worked in it.
However, as Windows 7 is an evolution of Vista, it uses Vista drivers.

brewbuck
01-13-2009, 01:51 PM
I've been told by several insiders that since I loved XP and hated Vista - that I shouldn't wait to get my hands on Windows 7. I tried to download it, but it seems that you have to have IE for the download to work. (Now is this the same version of IE that MS was advising people not to use until later this month?)

Anyway - I can probably get it done on my work machine later, but for the time being - who's tried it? What are your thoughts?

Aside from various eye candy and other pointless changes, the big feature in Win7 I think is the new device management "experience." Notice how Printers and Faxes no longer exists, and has been fused into an overall device management console which collects all attached device-specific functionality.

So manufacturer-specific applications that hang off the device no longer clutter your desktop or Start menu. If it's related to the device, then you access it from the device experience.

An improvement, I think.

Also, Win7 makes lots of enhancements to the XPS print subsystem.

Elysia
01-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Yes, but unfortunately I don't have many devices to test it with. It does looks promising, however.

brewbuck
01-13-2009, 02:00 PM
Yes, but unfortunately I don't have many devices to test it with. It does looks promising, however.

Yeah, it starts being more useful when you have more devices attached. You see a photographic image of each attached device (assuming the manufacturer provides one, which they are supposed to) which makes it easy to just click the device you want without worrying about its name.

If you had (for example) some new Bluetooth gizmo with special features, you'd access those features through the console instead of digging around for the control application or finding a custom control panel pane.

Elysia
01-13-2009, 02:14 PM
Indeed. I have seen the demos.
Another improvement I remembered: remember how Vista would display deleting X bytes per second?
Well, Win 7 displays X items per second.

Another:
System restore allows you to see what programs are affected when you choose a restore point.

kermit
01-13-2009, 05:50 PM
I grabbed a copy - still on my hard drive though. I had to jump through hoops to get it. Apparently Linux users are little people who do not deserve to download Windows 7. Clicking on the download button was pretty much a non-starter. So I just had a look at the page source, grabbed the link, and pasted it into a new tab, and it worked like a charm..

I am going to install it this weekend. I am pretty stoked about it too; I haven't run anything Windows in about 6 years or so.

sean
01-13-2009, 07:16 PM
Well the download just started working for me - on linux / firefox!

kermit
01-13-2009, 07:42 PM
By just clicking on the button? :S

cyberfish
01-13-2009, 09:48 PM
Another improvement I remembered: remember how Vista would display deleting X bytes per second?
Well, Win 7 displays X items per second.

Marketing talk! All changes are "improvements" :P.

stevesmithx
01-14-2009, 01:31 AM
There is much buzz about this new taskbar.
I am going to try this. Let's hope M$ doesn't disappoint like the previous release.

Clicking on the download button was pretty much a non-starter. So I just had a look at the page source, grabbed the link, and pasted it into a new tab, and it worked like a charm..
Couple of sites are giving direct download links too.

cyberfish
01-14-2009, 01:52 AM
Downloading :) (download link works for me, Firefox 3 on Linux)

I wonder how well it will work under VMware, though. Don't want to make a new partition for it because I have something against secondary partitions... and I happen to already be using 4 partitions.

zacs7
01-14-2009, 02:39 AM
> Don't want to make a new partition for it because I have something against secondary partitions... and I happen to already be using 4 partitions.
Me too. I had to make do with /boot on my Linux partition because of it :(

Win7, woot.

Elysia
01-14-2009, 03:50 AM
Microsoft servers still seem to be having some slight problems with the links to the download and it has been that way for... a long time.
But direct links usually works, yes. That is how I grabbed my copy.

zacs7
01-14-2009, 04:38 AM
I'm not even a heavy user of Windows and it excites me! I'm even holding off a computer upgrade until DX11.

I thought they were taking down the downloads to add more servers? Or did this happen a while ago?

Elysia
01-14-2009, 04:39 AM
They are adding more servers as far as I am aware.

kermit
01-14-2009, 05:03 AM
How many of you guys are trying the 64 bit version?

Elysia
01-14-2009, 05:25 AM
Not I, seeing as that would require me to burn it to a DVD and boot from it.
Not to mention the usual lack of drivers... typically they are missing.

zacs7
01-14-2009, 05:26 AM
Speaking of which, when will MS drop support for 32-bit if ever?

Elysia
01-14-2009, 05:28 AM
When the 64-bit ecosystem actually works?

matsp
01-14-2009, 05:36 AM
When the 64-bit ecosystem actually works?

Also, for most intents and purposes, 32-bit is enough for MOST applications and most of us do not have enough memory in our machines to make it valuable to use 64-bit. There are some side-effects of the 64-bit ABI and the 64-bit processor architectures that give some minor benefits, but the true move to 64-bit will happen when there is a "killer app" that requires more than 4GB of memory to itself. For some niches, this has already happened, but for most mainstream users, this is not yet the case.

--
Mats

kermit
01-14-2009, 05:45 AM
I seem to recall that the newest version of OSX is going to essentially nix 32 bit (has it happened already?) If Microsoft would pull the plug on 32 bit, then we could move on. I agree with your assessment, Mats. That said, I wish Nuance would make their Dragon Naturally Speaking into 64 bit. As software goes, the more ram you can give it, the better...

Elysia
01-14-2009, 05:46 AM
On a related topic, UAC in Windows 7 is still there and it's still broken.
Microsoft has been kind enough to be able to let us shut up some prompts, such as when doing system changes.
But too many applications just don't support / use UAC yet. The solution would be to run them as Admin (compability options). But some Microsoft software (system software) is STILL broken (requires an elevation for certain things, but doesn't ask for them) and you CAN'T select compability options for them!
Furthermore, there STILL is no option to shut up specific prompts for applications you select.
In other words, UAC = still fail. Disable it.

Oh yes, did I mention that the right-click -> run as admin option doesn't work for these system software?
Great, Microsoft. You did terrific...


I seem to recall that the newest version of OSX is going to essentially nix 32 bit (has it happened already?) If Microsoft would pull the plug on 32 bit, then we could move on. I agree with your assessment, Mats. That said, I wish Nuance would make their Dragon Naturally Speaking into 64 bit. As software goes, the more ram you can give it, the better...
But Microsoft cannot do this until manufacturers get their butts working and create reliable 64-bit drivers for all the devices out there!

zacs7
01-14-2009, 06:02 AM
Odd... I've been running 64-bit Linux for the past 2 years or so. Haven't had any problem :-).

The only reason I moved to 64-bit is because I'm paranoid one day 32-bit will just "stop working" ;)

matsp
01-14-2009, 06:13 AM
Odd... I've been running 64-bit Linux for the past 2 years or so. Haven't had any problem :-).

The only reason I moved to 64-bit is because I'm paranoid one day 32-bit will just "stop working" ;)

Linux is much easier, as (almost) all drivers are available in source-form, so you can easily recompile the driver to work on the 64-bit OS - and most drivers have been used on other 64-bit architectures before x86-64, so they have been ported.

In Windows, the drivers are most often not supplied open source, or supplied by MS, so it is up to many different suppliers to provide proper 64-bit drivers.

The core of Windows 64 works just fine, and has done for several years. The drivers are what is holding people back.

--
Mats

Elysia
01-14-2009, 06:40 AM
I found a very interesting video on how to install Win7 from a sub drive, btw:
http://edge.technet.com/Media/Installing-Win7-using-a-USB-Stick/
It's definitely worth checking out.

zacs7
01-14-2009, 06:53 AM
Er... nothing different from installing XP from USB ;)

Elysia
01-14-2009, 06:54 AM
The problem is getting the computer to boot from a USB drive, whether that be Win7 or WinXP.
I never knew how to do it...

Akkernight
01-14-2009, 07:34 AM
Omg... Their download manager sucks >.<! said I could shut it down and continue it, but when I tried continuing it, I got some 'Fatal Error' and had to start all over again >.>
Anyways, I've only heard good stuff about Windows 7 o.o especially that it doesn't demand as much from your PC as Vista :P

Elysia
01-14-2009, 07:35 AM
It sucks you have to use their download manager in the first place.
I remember being able to grab the Vista beta builds without Microsoft's download crap.

stevesmithx
01-14-2009, 08:56 AM
It sucks you have to use their download manager in the first place.
I remember being able to grab the Vista beta builds without Microsoft's download crap.

I agree.It's slow as snail.
With direct download links we can choose download managers of our choice.
Btw, Did you notice download manager seems to be an applet?.

Microsoft using an rival's technology to spread it's product?!.

cyberfish
01-14-2009, 11:24 AM
On my Linux/Firefox I got a direct download (no download manager). Guess it's OS detection =).

I am downloading the 64-bit version for... no particular reason.

I am going to run it in VMware, so hopefully drivers won't be an issue.

Elysia
01-14-2009, 12:15 PM
I agree.It's slow as snail.
With direct download links we can choose download managers of our choice.
Btw, Did you notice download manager seems to be an applet?.

Microsoft using an rival's technology to spread it's product?!.


Yes, I have noticed. It uses Java, at least for Firefox. They tend to do that since Firefox doesn't support ActiveX.

brewbuck
01-14-2009, 01:00 PM
On my Linux/Firefox I got a direct download (no download manager). Guess it's OS detection =).

I am downloading the 64-bit version for... no particular reason.

I am going to run it in VMware, so hopefully drivers won't be an issue.

I've tried installing it under VMWare. It didn't work. Reboots spontaneously during installation and never recovers.

That MIGHT be because I'm running a Mac Mini running Linux running VMWare trying to run Win7 inside THAT, but my suspicion is that it just doesn't work.

Neo1
01-14-2009, 04:15 PM
The problem is getting the computer to boot from a USB drive, whether that be Win7 or WinXP.
I never knew how to do it...

Kind of requires your motherboard to have that particular function, all new motherboards have it, but anything older than 2 years and chances are slim. Also, what drivers are you having problems with for x64? I've been running XP x64 for over a year now and i have never had any problems, except a _very_ old tuner card, but i couldn't even find any 32-bit drivers for that.

Everything else works right out of the box, so i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you are mistaken, x64 is mature now...

abachler
01-14-2009, 05:20 PM
I have problems with my wireless NIC not working out of the box, seems x64 wants to connect to the internet to find drivers for it...

BTW its a linksys, so not exactly some no-name brand.

stevesmithx
01-14-2009, 09:32 PM
It looks like VirtualBox supports it too.
http://blogs.sun.com/arungupta/entry/totd_65_windows_7_beta

cyberfish
01-14-2009, 09:38 PM
That MIGHT be because I'm running a Mac Mini running Linux running VMWare trying to run Win7 inside THAT, but my suspicion is that it just doesn't work.

Hmm I don't think the host (Mac/PC) matters, it's just x86. What version did you use?

Great that VirtualBox supports it... but I downloaded the 64-bit version (I don't think VB supports 64-bit guests).

brewbuck
01-14-2009, 09:59 PM
Hmm I don't think the host (Mac/PC) matters, it's just x86. What version did you use?

Of VMWare? 6.0.2 build-59824

I can't install Vista under VMWare either, though XP does work. Which is why I think it might be some weird hardware incompatibility.

cyberfish
01-14-2009, 10:00 PM
Hmm I am currently installing it under VMware 6.5, no problems so far.

I thought Vista is an officially supported guest?

cyberfish
01-14-2009, 10:20 PM
Works for me.

http://cyberfish.wecheer.com/tmp/w7.png

6.5.1 build-126130

All virtual hardware appears to be supported (nothing outstanding in device manager, network and sound tested)
Even VMware Tools work.

Installation took ~15mins. ~70MB/s harddrive. 3ghz Core 2 Duo.

Didn't really do anything special. Selected "Vista 64-bit", SCSI HD, "Will install OS later" (didn't trust Easy Install, since it identified the ISO as Vista).

BTW, is it just me or does the taskbar look really much like the one in KDE 3...

Elysia
01-15-2009, 02:31 AM
Kind of requires your motherboard to have that particular function, all new motherboards have it, but anything older than 2 years and chances are slim. Also, what drivers are you having problems with for x64? I've been running XP x64 for over a year now and i have never had any problems, except a _very_ old tuner card, but i couldn't even find any 32-bit drivers for that.

Everything else works right out of the box, so i'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that you are mistaken, x64 is mature now...

I'm going to try x64 once more, to see if drivers all there & all that. However, I am having problems booting off the damn USB drive. It always refuses to boot from it, no matter what I do.

UPDATE:
I managed to do it. Running x64. No problems with drivers so far.
Incredibly enough, creative's x64 drivers works perfectly compared to their x86 drivers under Windows 7.
Bass, surround... all works so far as I understand.
There is yet one device to test, as soon as I can get my hands on it, though.

brewbuck
01-15-2009, 11:35 AM
I thought Vista is an officially supported guest?

Right -- which is why I suspect the Mac Mini has some hardware oddity that's making it break. When I can upgrade VMWare to 6.5.x I'll try again.

abachler
01-19-2009, 11:41 PM
Well, I'm installing it on bochs right now, so I can se ehow it looks without fraggign a system first.

stevesmithx
01-20-2009, 07:44 AM
Well I have been trying beta for past four days or so and i must say they have very much improved it from vista. The boot time is even lesser than Xp and all the graphics works smoothly even with minimum configuration 1 GB ram.
Aero peek feature is great and so is the new make all windows transparent button next to time at the taskbar.
I believe this new version is really worth migrating from xp once the stable version is released.

abachler
01-20-2009, 09:58 AM
Hey, they finally included a chess game with it, thats a plus ...

Looks like it installed OK on Bochs, Ill have a guinea pig, err I mean friend of mine, install it on their system, he needs a new OS anyway.

cyberfish
01-20-2009, 11:36 AM
Vista has Chess Titan, too, and my own engine can easily beat it on highest difficulty.