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sean
11-05-2008, 02:06 PM
Anybody who has called Tech Support before will LOVE this story. I've always been of the opinion that Microsoft is decent. They've made some good software, they've made some bad software, etc.. XP fitted perfect with my personal style, and I could pretty much do whatever I needed to do. I still use it at work, and I'm very impressed with how well it has worked for me. I think that's some good software! But then there's the bad software...

I recently bought a Dell Laptop, and having Vista preinstalled was no extra charge, so I thought "Meh - I'll try it - I can always replace it later". So I get it, and I start having some issues. Nothing huge, just little annoying things. My brother-in-law works for Microsoft, and he's always been a genuine pro-Microsoft guy. So I told him my latest frustration, and I'm like, "I wanna give Windows a chance - I could go google this and get the hacky solution, I could switch to Linux - but I wanna se Microsoft solve my problem!" So he gives me a number that I can call for free tech support. I call, and after being told 3 times that I'm being transferred to a technician, I actually get someone who identifies themselves as a "technician". And of course, he's got that familiar tech-support "accent" (nothing racial - but we all know that when you call tech support that's a good sign that the guy on the other end knows less about the problem than you do).

He starts off with, "Have you installed any software since you first used Vista", and I say, "of course I have!". "Well, sir, that's going to be a problem." So he asks me to give him control of my desktop - which I didn't like, but I had expected it, so I had removed all my personal files and backed them up elsewhere before hand - after all, I'm giving Microsoft a fair chance, here. I explained that the problem hadn't existed before, but had started after I ran Windows Update over the weekend. So he says, "The problem is your video card". Odd, considering I have the default option on the best-selling laptop right now! But I go with what he says. He instructs me to open my device manager, and tell him what's listed under "display drivers". So I tell him, give him some other specs, and he tells me to delete one of the 2 drivers, which I do. Still have the problem. Restart the computer? Still have the same problem... Delete the other driver? Now hang on... that doesn't sound right! So I confirm. I very clearly enunciated, "You are telling me to check "delete" and then click the button that disables the only display driver on my system, correct? He says, "yes". So I did...

And the next five minutes were hilarious!

"Sir, are you seeing anything yet?"

"Nothing" (at this point I unplugged the ethernet cable - can't see what he's doing on my desktop)

"That's normal - windows is reconfiguring your drivers"

"..."

"Sir, are you seeing anything yet?"

"Nothing"

"It should just be 1-2 minutes more while it reinstalls your drivers"

"..."

"Sir, are you seeing anything yet?"

"Nothing"

"Okay, let's just wait a bit more and we'll see what happens"

"Sir - my CPU fan is not running, and the "busy" light is blank - my driver's aren't getting reinstalled, are they?"

"Well why don't we go ahead and restart your computer"

"Okay - and how do you propose I do that - guess where the buttons are?"

"We could try that, yes"

"You know what? I'm gonna go try Ubuntu..."

So he transferred me to his manager and I got 10 minutes of this, "You see, sir, in India people use Nokia because it's user-friendly, in America they use Motorola because it's user-friendly for them. We're trying to make Windows Vista user-friendly, and with your help, we'll do it right!"

Ugh... I'm sorry Microsoft - you're losing a fairly loyal fan. Kubuntu is now running with the proper Wifi drivers, and I LOVE IT!

zacs7
11-05-2008, 03:07 PM
Haha, the odd thing is you knew what was going to happen.

What was the problem anyway?

Now all you have to do is ditch Ubuntu for a real distro ;)

Elysia
11-05-2008, 03:15 PM
Microsoft is known to have very, very poor support. Just look at all those horror stories on the web!
Sorry to hear you had trouble, though. I have been running Vista pretty fine with only one small hickup - that the sound sometimes wants to disappear, but changing sound mode fixes that.

All in all, I do not think you should exactly blame Vista, but rather Microsoft-pathetic-support :)

sean
11-05-2008, 03:39 PM
Now all you have to do is ditch Ubuntu for a real distro

I was using FreeBSD and LOVED it - but after ndisgen'ing the drivers for my card - it still couldn't recognize any networks. Everyone in the community just said, "well - that's it!" I actually really like Kubuntu. REALLY good community, robust, fits my style (edit: KDE in general fits my style - the inner workings of Ubuntu - we'll see, but in all honesty I'm impressed). Updating's a little weird, but I've just never used *nix as my primary system, so it'll take some time. I'll toy with other stuff to see, but I just have to have a good system up and running in the mean time.


What was the problem anyway?

Running the console window or any DOS app said, "the system does not support fullscreen mode". Problem is - it did last week! It was also giving me errors any time I edited a file while the command window was open.

I ended up finding a somewhat hacky solution online for the full-screen issue, but it didn't sound terribly reliable, and it didn't sound exactly like my original problem, so I'm just ditching Vista - I'm done...


All in all, I do not think you should exactly blame Vista, but rather Microsoft-pathetic-support

I don't blame Vista. That's like blaming your truck for bad gas mileage. If it's a problem for you, you should stop using it. It's the manufacturer's fault. And if you don't like it, you should stop using it, otherwise it's YOUR fault!

I do blame Microsoft management in general. They rushed the release, and it seems that my problem with Vista ultimately stems from paradigms used the design. It's got too many safety nets. I'd rather set my own safety nets and do my work. If other people use Vista - I don't discourage them - it's just a style issue. But objectively speaking, I think Microsoft hasn't done a good job here.

I heard the analogy that Vista is Windows ME 2. Windows 7 is like XP 2. If that be the case - I'm excited for Windows 7. I just hope it doesn't get rushed - but they haven't set a deadline, so I'm optimistic.

Elysia
11-05-2008, 03:44 PM
I don't blame Vista. That's like blaming your truck for bad gas mileage. If it's a problem for you, you should stop using it. It's the manufacturer's fault. And if you don't like it, you should stop using it, otherwise it's YOUR fault!
Hehehe, sounds like you are somewhat upbeat about this issue.


I do blame Microsoft management in general. They rushed the release, and it seems that my problem with Vista ultimately stems from paradigms used the design. It's got too many safety nets. I'd rather set my own safety nets and do my work. If other people use Vista - I don't discourage them - it's just a style issue. But objectively speaking, I think Microsoft hasn't done a good job here.

I heard the analogy that Vista is Windows ME 2. Windows 7 is like XP 2. If that be the case - I'm excited for Windows 7. I just hope it doesn't get rushed - but they haven't set a deadline, so I'm optimistic.
Indeed it was rushed, and it probably is ME 2.
Resource hungry, buggy... well, you name it.
Windows 7 is looking better, though. We are in agreement! Lots of info about Win7 around this time and a public beta should show up soon, as well.

whiteflags
11-05-2008, 06:26 PM
Speaking of, I heard that you can pick any family of Windows and not possibly get to seven. This has been tested repeatedly. Not that it matters, but Microsoft versioning system at work!

master5001
11-05-2008, 06:34 PM
Microsoft is known to have very, very poor support. Just look at all those horror stories on the web!
Sorry to hear you had trouble, though. I have been running Vista pretty fine with only one small hickup - that the sound sometimes wants to disappear, but changing sound mode fixes that.

All in all, I do not think you should exactly blame Vista, but rather Microsoft-pathetic-support :)

Yeah, lets not blame Microsoft for distributing a piece of crap piece of software, lets blame them for being rude because we freak out when their piece of crap software is not working right. Come on now... seriously.

whiteflags
11-05-2008, 06:38 PM
If I knew that I could ship dog crap in a CD case, but it's okay if I had a badass support team, I would.

master5001
11-05-2008, 06:46 PM
Microsoft seems to approach things with the mentality of sell it now, fix it later. That is just poor form no matter how you slice it.

sean
11-05-2008, 07:22 PM
If I knew that I could ship dog crap in a CD case, but it's okay if I had a badass support team, I would.

"Yes, sir. It's perfectly normal for the poo to turn white. We'll gladly extend your warranty indefinitely, free of charge, and we'll even ship you new poo. Would you like the nightly-snapshot that's still steaming, or the stable version that's covered in flies and sorta dry?"

And then if they couldn't fix it over the phone, they'd have to send a poopsmith to help you fix it.

edit: Oddly, I actually think I would feel more satisfied after that conversation than the one I had with Microsoft today.

abachler
11-05-2008, 07:23 PM
You shoudl get rid of vista and upgrade to XP :) They just completey assed up Vista's development, but now they are stuck with it until the next product release. Do yourself a favor and just dont buy it. It's not like noone has ever heard of Vista having problems, at this point if you still insist on tryign it you get what you deserve.

cpjust
11-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Well I think it must be bad drivers or something.
I've been using Vista for almost a year and it's running perfectly.
The only problem I've had is that I'm running the x64 version, and a lot of companies (like Macromedia...) are taking forever to release 64-bit drivers, but I would have had exactly the same problem with x64 XP.

Elysia
11-06-2008, 03:28 AM
Yeah, lets not blame Microsoft for distributing a piece of crap piece of software, lets blame them for being rude because we freak out when their piece of crap software is not working right. Come on now... seriously.

Hey, who said it was not bad?
In this case, it was Microsoft support that screwed up, not Vista. But I am still not aligning with Microsoft and their quality in software and hardware (XBox 360, anyone?).

laserlight
11-06-2008, 08:01 AM
I heard the analogy that Vista is Windows ME 2. Windows 7 is like XP 2. If that be the case - I'm excited for Windows 7. I just hope it doesn't get rushed - but they haven't set a deadline, so I'm optimistic.
Yeah, after hearing (hopeful) praise from various sources on Windows 7, I am considering just skipping Windows Vista.

FillYourBrain
11-06-2008, 08:39 AM
Fedora user myself... but I think people's microsoft hate is overblown. Its really not a bad OS. People just like to hate the leader. And it gets attacked from both the highly technical (*nix) side and the fruity, artsy (mac) side. Really, it is a pretty good compromise of a system. As for the technical problems I've seen linux and mac both crash pretty hard too.

psychopath
11-06-2008, 08:50 AM
and the fruity, artsy (mac) side
We're not fruity. :(

FillYourBrain
11-06-2008, 08:52 AM
:) yeah, I guess that was harsh.

FillYourBrain
11-06-2008, 08:54 AM
but I'm sure you'd admit that mac people have been rather harsh to MS also. The "I'm a mac" ad campaign that's been going is pretty disingenuous and childish.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 09:09 AM
Since I got my new PC with Vista, I've been getting all kinds of problems, like Vista just not starting, but people always say it's my PC that's the problem, so Vista works a 100%, for all that I know ;)
Xbox 360 is a masterpiece! Ok, Microsoft made a mistake with the graphics card, but they fixed it ;) Now it's only pure enjoyment ^^
And they havn't made one bad game, so Microsoft should be the best...? But I've never dealt with their support, so I havn't seen their so called bad site :P

FillYourBrain
11-06-2008, 09:15 AM
yeah, I never called for support for any system. So for those of us who generally don't need support, it isn't a part of the equation.

psychopath
11-06-2008, 09:47 AM
but I'm sure you'd admit that mac people have been rather harsh to MS also. The "I'm a mac" ad campaign that's been going is pretty disingenuous and childish.
I agree, but I still love the ads anyway :p.

Elysia
11-06-2008, 09:50 AM
Xbox 360 is a masterpiece! Ok, Microsoft made a mistake with the graphics card, but they fixed it ;) Now it's only pure enjoyment ^^

Not saying the machine itself is bad, but the engineering quality is just a joke. It is not worth the money you are paying for it.
As for Windows, I do like it. Far better than Linux. It is more my style, so I do not blame Microsoft for Windows (although they have made some pretty poor things, like ME and recently Vista).
But I do hate them for some other things. They always want to be number one is everything and the scary thing is that with their money, it is possible.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 09:55 AM
the 360 works, and is cheap! That's all I need :P And it's way better than PS3, so what else is there to get? :P

Elysia
11-06-2008, 09:58 AM
It works until it breaks.
I am not saying I like the PS3. It is way too expensive, but if you would compare the 360 to either Wii or PS3, it is like a fat miserable piece of crap in terms of reliability and that is inexcusable. Microsoft even hurt themselves in the long run due to the miserable quality. How are they going to make profit on the 360 now?

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 10:09 AM
The 360 is better than both PS3 and Wii, and never ever breaks :P It's some fantasy idea made by other console fanboys, 'cause I know pretty many who have a 360, none which has ever had one problem, except the graphics card, but I dunno what kind of crap may get transfered over to where you live :P

Elysia
11-06-2008, 10:13 AM
The 360 is better than both PS3 and Wii
Well, that is subjective, so I won't comment on that.


...and never ever breaks :P
Right. Explain that to everyone out there who have had one broken down on them.


It's some fantasy idea made by other console fanboys, 'cause I know pretty many who have a 360, none which has ever had one problem, except the graphics card, but I dunno what kind of crap may get transfered over to where you live :P
Perhaps you should enlighten yourself by doing some research before you try to declare a well-known fact false?
Even Microsoft has admitted the fault. Indeed, a former employee (I believe) also admitted and gave an inside story on how 360s broke due to poor manufacturing.

Even if YOURS has not broken down does not mean OTHERS have not. The web is full of horror stories, and yet you hear none about Wii or PS3, which seems to suggest that it is tied to 360 and very unreliable hardware and horrible customer support.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Just got mine :P But I know alot of others who have it, and never have had a problem, especially the so well known Red Ring of Death(?) all that I've seen or hear about, is the beautiful green ring, with the fancy white color console ^^

Elysia
11-06-2008, 10:24 AM
I know one who has a 360, and who knows at least someone else who has one, and they have not gotten a RROD (yet), but that does not change the facts.
Remember: even if it is a 1% chance, there is someone (or someones) who must be that 1%. You may not hear about it, in other words, but some poor fellow out there will be that 1%, otherwise it would not be 1%.
And the failure rate of the 360 was calculated to something along the lines of 30%.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 10:28 AM
Well, Microsoft does give good 360 support :P And it's the best console out there :P And I'm a game enthusiast, or whatever it's called, so I need a console, 'cause piracy is killing the computer games :/ and both my computers have been a fail, the first one had a wrong type of ram in it or something, and exploded just recently, and the new one has been to repairs about 5-6 times >.<
I only have one game for the console tho, GTA IV, not very proud of that :/ Endwar has been sent, so I guess I'm on my way to be able to really call myself a gamer...?

Elysia
11-06-2008, 10:32 AM
Well, Microsoft does give good 360 support :P
Evidence suggests the contrary. It's horrible, frankly.


And it's the best console out there :P
Yes, yes, you said that already. And not everyone may agree with you. Keep that in mind.


And I'm a game enthusiast, or whatever it's called, so I need a console
I fail to see how that has anything to do with things...


'cause piracy is killing the computer games :/
So they say. I cannot say if that is true or not.


and both my computers have been a fail, the first one had a wrong type of ram in it or something, and exploded just recently, and the new one has been to repairs about 5-6 times >.<
Well, wow. I have never had a computer die on me.
Well, sure, there have been times where I have been unable to use my computer due to the operating system, but other than that, no...


I only have one game for the console tho, GTA IV, not very proud of that :/ Endwar has been sent, so I guess I'm on my way to be able to really call myself a gamer...?
I would call anyone who plays game a gamer, though. No matter how many hours they put into it.

whiteflags
11-06-2008, 10:37 AM
In my opinion the best games are usually multi-platform, and this includes games that are popular enough to get ported. Fanboyism is annoying, and no one wants to hear you defend your personal best console irrationally from real engineering issues. Gamers are in it for the fun of it.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 10:48 AM
Yeah, I always play gamers only for the fun, just like to debate, it's just me :/
Xbox Live is the best online service thingy!... Just had to say that :P

sean
11-06-2008, 12:20 PM
'cause piracy is killing the computer games :/

My first memories in life are mostly sitting with my brothers while they played computer games (amazing babysitting tool). Looking back, I'm certain they were all pirated. Even with the internet, I don't think piracy is suddenly becoming unbearable for games manufacturer's - it's always been there, always will be. It's wrong, and it's a problem, I agree - but I'd say it's a long way from "killing" anything. How much music gets pirated? How many musicians are still loaded? Granted, they're not as loaded as they otherwise would be, but nobody's "killing" the music industry.

lruc
11-06-2008, 02:09 PM
Well, that is subjective, so I won't comment on that.


Right. Explain that to everyone out there who have had one broken down on them.


Perhaps you should enlighten yourself by doing some research before you try to declare a well-known fact false?
Even Microsoft has admitted the fault. Indeed, a former employee (I believe) also admitted and gave an inside story on how 360s broke due to poor manufacturing.

Even if YOURS has not broken down does not mean OTHERS have not. The web is full of horror stories, and yet you hear none about Wii or PS3, which seems to suggest that it is tied to 360 and very unreliable hardware and horrible customer support.

I think your being a little harsh on the 360. I own one and would definitely agree that they do break down. A lot. This is my third replacement. I actually do wish that I had got a ps3, but that's just because I'm pro OpenGL and anti DirectX. But overall, it's a decent system. It has its flaws just like Windows, but it does have a lot of nice features, especially live. My gamer tag is curl12 if you want to add me.

Elysia
11-06-2008, 02:12 PM
I am very harsh against its engineering, but not the system itself. I don't own one, though.
I am anti-PS3 because of Sony, though.

sean
11-06-2008, 02:19 PM
I am very harsh against its engineering, but not the system itself.

By 'engineering' do you mean the way it was designed or built? I think that term can refer to either.

FillYourBrain
11-06-2008, 02:22 PM
it doesn't have to make sense... its all about being the most opinionated for some people

Elysia
11-06-2008, 02:22 PM
How Microsoft build the system. The manufacturing part.
Although, I have a few issues with the way Microsoft is trying to force proprietary accessories on you, too.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 03:47 PM
I havn't looked at it's inside, but I like the outside :P And it's the most used console by Game Developers! So proud that I have one too ^^ Anyways, almost every time you see some game testing, they test with the 360 ;)

Elysia
11-06-2008, 03:49 PM
Dude. Back down.
We get it, that you love the 360. You do not have to needlessly repeat it. It will everyone annoyed with you and nothing more.

Akkernight
11-06-2008, 03:54 PM
Sorry for trying... Well, you can program games on the 360, hah! :P Havn't tried it myself, but I've seen it on xbox Live ;)

robwhit
11-06-2008, 04:15 PM
Dude. Back down.Woah, that's trippy. I think I'm getting disoriented. ;)

lruc
11-06-2008, 07:55 PM
Dude. Back down.
We get it, that you love the 360. You do not have to needlessly repeat it. It will everyone annoyed with you and nothing more.

Replace the word 360 with C++ and I could say an equivalent statement to you. Hypocrite!

maxorator
11-07-2008, 12:37 AM
Replace the word 360 with C++ and I could say an equivalent statement to you. Hypocrite!
Err... are you sure you're in the right place? This IS a C/C++ forum.

sean
11-07-2008, 08:39 AM
He's in the right place - he's referring to a thread a couple of weeks back.

master5001
11-07-2008, 01:19 PM
Dude. Back down.
We get it, that you love the 360. You do not have to needlessly repeat it. It will everyone annoyed with you and nothing more.

I would only own a 360 if it were stolen. Which is my attitude about Windows, Office, and any other microsoft product.

Elysia
11-07-2008, 01:20 PM
Your choice. I can see no love towards Microsoft in there.

Akkernight
11-07-2008, 01:31 PM
Flying chocolate cookies! Why are you people so serious all the time? :P I does not believe in stolen 360's, 'cause I don't want to! :P

FillYourBrain
11-07-2008, 01:47 PM
I want a flying cookie... to be clear is that chocolate chip or some other kind of chocolate cookie?

Akkernight
11-07-2008, 01:49 PM
It's one of those with chocolate in the middle and then... Cookie... Bread thing on each sides... Yeah that's the one ;)