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Trennto
07-04-2008, 09:33 AM
Have you noticed how much damage torrents are doing to the internet? People dont buy any software any more, they just get the torrent. I know a guy who has gigs of music for free, MS Word 2008 for free, the full Adobe CS3 set for free, tons of PC games (Civ4, Crysis, GoW, ect.) an anti-virus, the list goes on for ever... and it's all registered with a cracked serial too.

Torrents need to be stopped somehow, software developers and musicians are being screwed every day... it's just not right (or legal). How much money has been stolen? WAY too much.

h3ro
07-04-2008, 09:40 AM
To be honest I can see how people download software. It is not reasonable to expect all people to pay the incredible amount of money some of them cost.

How do you expect students to learn say 3ds max when the software is so incredible expensive?

On the other side, I cant say I like it when I see companies using Pirated software.

Mario F.
07-04-2008, 09:47 AM
Should be on the GD board.
But no, it's not the end of the world. Just business as usual. Illegal software drives the industry too... in some twisted way, but it does.

I would think that the industry that do suffer from torrents the most is the printing industry. They simply don't have many alternatives and don't benefit indirectly from piracy as do the software and music industries.

laserlight
07-04-2008, 09:58 AM
Moved to GD.

Elysia
07-04-2008, 10:49 AM
A problem with software these days is that they demand a huge amount of money.
Adding it up, the costs are incredible.
And some are just too happy to steal from companies they hate (eg Microsoft).

whiteflags
07-04-2008, 11:58 AM
Please, spare me the drama. Most games cost like $20 and you can always find deals. I guess people have special needs, but I really don't see a reason to sound the alarm. Most people don't need much more than a word processor and maybe some digital imaging software. There are still very successful suites out there because people are still spending money for them.

Most people probably think Bit Torrent is a problem because they're either around it too much or they don't understand how it's useful abiding by the law. OpenOffice releases torrents for instance.

Fordy
07-04-2008, 12:21 PM
>>OpenOffice releases torrents for instance.

As do many opensource apps including some flavours of Linux.

These days, if I want something and dont want to shell out cash for it I look around for an open source alternative. And with games I agree that they are cheap enough and available everywhere

The only app I feel I really have to buy is Excel as I use it more than anything else due to my job. The openoffice version is fine, but most of the features of Excel are second nature to me now so I always end up buying it in some form or other.

VirtualAce
07-04-2008, 12:27 PM
Games are so abundantly available and affordable I cannot see any excuse for stealing them. I do not approve of the invasive copy protection systems some utilize but this small petty argument still does not give anyone the right to just blatantly steal games.

Some apps are very costly but I must admit that 'most' of the costly apps actually do come with a great deal of functionality. Microsoft Office has a great deal of usefulness that you just can't find in OpenSource versions. Autodesk apps are extremely expensive but oh so powerful. Blender, Milkshape, TrueSpace, GameSpace, etc. don't come close. Maya is actually very good and on par with 3DS Max. Adobe also has some very high price items but I've never been dissatisfied with any of their applications. I also would be lost without MSVS and the functonality it provides. The other day I went back to RHIDE for a bit to tinker and realized how spoiled I've become by MSVS.

Create premium products and you can demand premium prices.

Mario F.
07-04-2008, 12:53 PM
And in the end, $700 is not that much money if one saves for it, instead of spending in it. It may seem not, but there's a big difference. I'm proud of my collection of licensed software. All bought through savings.

I downloaded illegal software and used it a few times. I did it however because I wasn't satisfied with the evaluation restrictions or the period and couldn't get an extension (like so many companies do if we so much send an email and ask). But this is rare. In any case, the idea was always to either buy the software (which I did on many occasions) or to uninstall it after testing it fully.

On the matter of games, I'm blessed with my usual casual attitude towards this type of software. Sometimes a title catches my eye and I simply ignore it until it shows on stores for half the price 12 or 24 months later with all expansion packs. Done deal.

Salem
07-04-2008, 02:07 PM
So what if someones archived 1000+ games, how many of them actually get played "at all"?

Or maybe for 5 minutes before "meh, I'm bored with this" or "this sucks" before moving on to something else (and not deleting it). If you've got TB of disk space, you're not going to stress over deleting a few old games which originally came on a floppy.

Sure if someone plays a game for weeks without paying for it, then that's wrong. But then so is over-hyped marketing for 2nd rate games which I'd wish I'd never paid money for.

All the s/w I use is either GNU or paid for (where I find it either necessary or genuinely useful).

> Microsoft Office has a great deal of usefulness that you just can't find in OpenSource versions.
Yeah, and 90% of it never gets used by 90% of the users, but they all end up paying for it in the end. The only way MS can survive is by bloating the s/w with more and more features so they can keep wheeling out the cash cow for another milking. There's a joke that emacs makes a great OS, all it needs is a decent editor. The same could be soon said of msword.

If you're a multinational, then yes you can make use of a lot of office features, but the home / SOHO / SME types don't need the vast array of features (nor have the time to RTFM to find them out). They can easily get by with OO for example.

Trennto
07-04-2008, 03:16 PM
I discovered torrents a long while ago and I've had my share of downloads, but I previously bought civ4 for $60 then later found the torrent free and with both expansions. $60 may not seem much to you, but to a 15 year-old gamer like me, wasting $60 on something that I could get free is very frustrating. And it's not just $60, I found things like the whole Adobe CS3 package for free, now THATS a big deal. Going to a website and stealing a couple thousand dollars with a click of a button with no consequences seems like a pretty big deal.

It adds up, you know... and not everyone only downloads every now and then to test something. Most people that find torrents download everything from them. They see that they dont need to pay for software or music any more. I have my doubts using money on any computer software any more since I know that I can get it for free, no strings attached. Torrents are much larger a problem then most people realize.

Mario F.
07-04-2008, 04:16 PM
Picture Adobe... That's quite a successful business (http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=7369), wouldn't you agree? So... what's wrong with this picture of torrents being a problem?

Yes, downloading illegal software without any kind of consequence is not only a big problem. It's in fact a huge problem that our society will eventually pay dearly. But it's a social issue, not an economical one. We are living in a time and using a medium in which crime pays and our youngsters are not only being shown it does pay, but also actively encouraged to participate from very tender ages. I'm appalled at the age of some of the people spending a major part of their online time downloading, ripping, or publishing movies, music, software or books. Sometimes, all this being done right in front of their parents noses who smile at their offspring skills with the computer. "Look dad. Ain't it cool? It's not even on theaters yet. Want to watch too?" I'm no psychologists or sociologist, but I'd bet my typing fingers this will eventually come and bite us right in our buttocks.

But I pity not the companies. They benefit enormously from this type of crime... and although not visibly, they secretly endorse it, I could almost bet. Do you think Adobe could reach nearly a billion in sales if it wasn't for piracy? Think again. What's the gospel of marketing? How much money do you think a company is losing when their products are being advertised for them for free? How much value do you think a company has when their products are used all over the web be it from illegal or legal copies? How do you position yourself when trying to negotiate with such a company or how do you think investors will look at such a company? What do you think happens to their stock shares?... I could go on forever...

Certainly this last paragraph is open for debate. But I wouldn't try it (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/09/business/fi-micropiracy9) without a very strong case. The question is in fact, how much do these companies benefit and how much do they endorse it behind closed doors?

You want to know who really suffers with piracy?

- Open Source is one. The main arguments of the OS movement and its ideals get lost in the unfair competition of an seemingly unstoppable and ever growing criminal activity. I sometimes think how many Open Source projects are running at a loss these days simply because they can't compete with commercial software prices any more? Sadly ironic.

- Indie companies. Same problem. They can't compete with the huge development teams and nearly unlimited resources of the big companies in their garage when those products are being "sold" at price 0 and still adding to their gains. Although some indie developers are them too starting to play around with the concept...

- We. As I said before, this general feeling of getting away with murder is becoming ingrained in the minds of a whole generation. It will eventually crash down in our heads. I just don't don't know how or when.

Trennto
07-04-2008, 06:05 PM
Well said Mario.

Here's an interesting sentence from Mario's second link:
"That record of success has led many experts and software companies to regard piracy as less of a problem than initially assumed or even part of a comprehensive strategy"

Even with piracy possibly helping companies like Microsoft, it's still a problem that extends far beyond money. It's a moral problem that will grow steadily in each generation as stealing will become more and more simple and "innocent". In my opinion, we have to attack the source of this, and hard. If Microsoft wants to give away products, by all means let them do that, but not through a system that opens doors for all kinds of theft.

zacs7
07-04-2008, 06:50 PM
Not to mention with movies there is a period of time that you can't see the movie, even if you wanted to. Ie from the movies -> DVD there is usually a gap of a few months.

SlyMaelstrom
07-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Not to mention with movies there is a period of time that you can't see the movie, even if you wanted to. Ie from the movies -> DVD there is usually a gap of a few months.I know several websites that have movies up the day of release in the theaters. Granted they are a guy filming in a theater (which, to this day, I still can't understand how people watch), but after 24 hours of being up on those websites, they each tend to have 20,000-30,000 hits. That is a lot of revenue that the industry isn't getting.

I think it's silly to single out torrents for this arguement. They are just a single medium in the whole piracy problem. People complain about the price of things, but they seem to not understand that they contribute to this problem. If everyone purchased the software legally, then the publishers would have less reason to increase the price of the next version. Secondly, if people would just not use software that they can't afford rather than stealing it and learning it, then that particular software would have less penetration in its industry because there are less people that know the software and businesses would not be buying so many volume licenses for it. This should ultimately force the publisher to lower the cost of the software so that they can attract more consumers to buy and learn their product.

There is no doubt that piracy is an issue but I just can't see a reasonable solution for it. You can beg the world to stop stealing but who's going to listen. People have grown accustom to having everything they want handed to them for free.

Cactus_Hugger
07-05-2008, 01:46 AM
Not to mention with movies there is a period of time that you can't see the movie, even if you wanted to. Ie from the movies -> DVD there is usually a gap of a few months.
We see movies at my college. ($2.50/person) I believe the club that does it gets them after the commercial theaters are done, but before the DVD release.

Trennto
07-05-2008, 10:54 PM
I single out torrents because they're the most widely spread medium of internet theft, and they have absolutely no danger in using them. Because torrents are a shared network of seeders, no one can do anything about it (especially the govt, which has to make sure they dont interfere with the internet). There's gotta be a better way to stop this than just "begging". We need to take some action... but how? I guess anti-torrent security from the publishers should improve, (like a USB hardware identifier that you need to put in the computer in order to install the product) but companies dont want to spend that much money to fight something that could actually help them.

[EDIT] You know what, dont reply to that. What the hell am I trying to accomplish? I cant make a difference by complaining on a forum... this is stupid, I'm stupid. I'm just wasting my time and yours. The thing is, there are many problems just like this one that dont, and never will get resolved. You know why? Because no one will ever do anthing that will make a difference. How can they... they're just one person. One person can see a problem and tell people about it, try to show them, but nothing will get done. In fact, the other people will try to show you that's it not a big deal at all. This is a social issue, you can try everything: Increasing security, spreading information, elevating pirating laws. People will just find other ways, they always do. They'll crack it like they did serials and everything before.

All I can do, all any of us can do.... is just sit there and watch it all go to hell. This is pointless. Thread over.

zacs7
07-05-2008, 11:18 PM
> like a USB hardware identifier that you need to put in the computer in order to install the product
Doesn't work, never has. Not to mention it just punishes the consumers who do pay for the product. A perfect example is 3DS max (5 I think it was), which required a dongle to work... hopeless.

Don't blame torrents, that's like blaming the street because people drag race on it. There are huge "underground" sites that give downloads of movies and games over FTP/HTTP ... perhaps we should ban those protocols too. Go for the people that sit in the movies with a camera, or upload the software, or crack it. There's less of them than the consumers.

indigo0086
07-07-2008, 06:29 AM
I think this guy works for someone.

brewbuck
07-07-2008, 11:24 AM
Have you noticed how much damage torrents are doing to the internet? People dont buy any software any more, they just get the torrent. I know a guy who has gigs of music for free, MS Word 2008 for free, the full Adobe CS3 set for free, tons of PC games (Civ4, Crysis, GoW, ect.) an anti-virus, the list goes on for ever... and it's all registered with a cracked serial too.

Torrents need to be stopped somehow, software developers and musicians are being screwed every day... it's just not right (or legal). How much money has been stolen? WAY too much.

You're a nut. Software piracy has existed since software has existed. Torrents are just the latest way of doing it. Before that were underground warez web sites, IRC, BBS, dialing up your buddy who had something you wanted, or even just copying floppy disks.

I make my living writing software, and I still find your attitude extremely disturbing. BitTorrent is a technology, that's all.

abachler
07-07-2008, 04:14 PM
PrimeGrid (http://www.primegrid.com) releases new sequences by torrent, so not all uses of torrent are bad. Don't blame murder on guns, blame the murderer's. Don't blame software piracy on torrents, blame the pirates. In both cases the problem existed long before the current method of choice, and the method serves far more legitimate purposes than illegitimate ones.

zacs7
07-07-2008, 05:17 PM
> Don't blame murder on guns, blame the murderer's.
If only the pollys in Australia thought the same way... no airsoft, no semi-autos, no autos :'(

Cheeze-It
07-08-2008, 07:51 AM
To be honest I can see how people download software. It is not reasonable to expect all people to pay the incredible amount of money some of them cost.

How do you expect students to learn say 3ds max when the software is so incredible expensive?



Well, there is a Personal Learning Edition of Maya...

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/item?siteID=123112&id=7679012

.. that's how students learn.



Games are so abundantly available and affordable I cannot see any excuse for stealing them. I do not approve of the invasive copy protection systems some utilize but this small petty argument still does not give anyone the right to just blatantly steal games.


Or music! People gotta stop pirating music, too. But because
it's so easy, it'll never happen. Almost every person I've ever
met that has an iPod has the thing mostly filled up with pirated
music. It's ridiculous. Songs are usually less than a dollar;
CDs usually less than $12. That's not an unreasonable price;
EVEN IF THE ALBUM ENDS UP SUCKING! People spend as much
going to a movie based on nothing but a 30second trailer.

Lol. I also created an anti-Torrent thread about 3 years ago:
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=81407

Elysia
07-08-2008, 07:53 AM
People want more free contents ;)
Add more pay-to-download-monthly services and I'm sure many more will download legally! :)

abachler
07-08-2008, 08:38 AM
Add more pay-to-download-monthly services and I'm sure many more will download legally! :)

The problem is none of them carry Janis Joplin or any other music that people with credit cards tend to listen to. Sorry but im not paying a monthly fee for a bunch of degenerates yelling about how the man is screwing them over and teeny boppers squalling in their underwear.

DavidP
07-08-2008, 08:41 AM
Or music! People gotta stop pirating music, too. But because
it's so easy, it'll never happen. Almost every person I've ever
met that has an iPod has the thing mostly filled up with pirated
music. It's ridiculous. Songs are usually less than a dollar;
CDs usually less than $12. That's not an unreasonable price;
EVEN IF THE ALBUM ENDS UP SUCKING! People spend as much
going to a movie based on nothing but a 30second trailer.


I agree. As a teenager I used to be more of the "freeloader" mindset...but honestly the prices really are not that bad. One should be willing to pay the appropriate amount of money for a product that he/she wants to have.

Trennto
07-08-2008, 10:05 AM
I make my living writing software, and I still find your attitude extremely disturbing. BitTorrent is a technology, that's all.

Look, I'm sorry if I came across as blaming torrents as the problem. In case you didn't get it (or didn't really read the thread) the target is pirating in general. I just choose torrents to pick on because its the latest, easiest way to download anything you want, no consequences. Please, no more "Torrents are just a technology, don't blame the gun" crap. This thread is about the ridiculous amount of illegal software and music pirating going on right now and what it will end up doing.

I make my living as a human, and I still find your attitude extremely disturbing. Pirating is theft, that's all.

indigo0086
07-08-2008, 10:11 AM
Who do you work for?

Trennto
07-08-2008, 10:11 AM
Who do you work for?

I'm a 15 year old high school student. If anything, I'm working for all of you.

abachler
07-08-2008, 10:39 AM
At 15, you dont make a living at all. You live off the generosity of your parents and society, and do not have the life experience to hold an informed opinion about a technology you barely understand. Spare us the childish blathering about how software piracy will doom us all. It just isn't so. Piracy has been around since before you or I or probably anyone alive were a twinkle in their momma's eye. It hasn't brought about armageddon yet. In fact quite the oposite. Microsoft owes its dominance of the OS market to the fact that in the formative years of personal computers DOS was easily pirated and thus used more widely than any other competing product.

indigo0086
07-08-2008, 10:49 AM
If anything, I'm working for all of you.

You're fired.

Elysia
07-08-2008, 11:02 AM
The problem is none of them carry Janis Joplin or any other music that people with credit cards tend to listen to. Sorry but im not paying a monthly fee for a bunch of degenerates yelling about how the man is screwing them over and teeny boppers squalling in their underwear.

Well, that's certainly true, but the idea is to have download services with a broad range of selection for music, movies games and whatever else and I'm sure we'll get many more who actually download legally.
Of course, this may or may not be feasible, but in general, I think such services is what a lot of people want.

Trennto
07-08-2008, 11:05 AM
Well, forgive me for being less of a person then you, all mighty abachler! I'm just a stupid 15 year old that doesn't have the kind of wisdom or experience that is required to realize when something is wrong. I'm really sorry. I guess I'll just go and steal something. In fact, since abachler thinks it's okay, why don't we ALL steal stuff?!

You're a stupid prick, abachler. Who the hell gave you the right to judge me because of my age? You think I dont know what money is or something? You think I've never seen anything get stolen?

The thing is, piracy has not, and never will bring us to armageddon. What it does is destroy our morals. Do you think today's society is good? It isn't, and piracy is a part of humanities current state. Giving companies like Microsoft dominance-by-theft isn't a plus side to piracy. Maybe for Bill Gates, but without piracy maybe we'll have a better OS dominating the market. Better open source at least. Quite the opposite of armageddon? Are you kidding me? I don't see piracy helping anyone except helping corporate scumbags steal our money with ridiculous prices.

h3ro
07-08-2008, 12:06 PM
>>What it does is destroy our morals.
So does masturbation and pornography.

But somehow I turned out ok.....

indigo0086
07-08-2008, 01:24 PM
>>What it does is destroy our morals.
So does masturbation and pornography.

But somehow I turned out ok.....

cheers.

Neo1
07-08-2008, 01:57 PM
At 15, you dont make a living at all. You live off the generosity of your parents and society, and do not have the life experience to hold an informed opinion about a technology you barely understand. Spare us the childish blathering about how software piracy will doom us all. It just isn't so. Piracy has been around since before you or I or probably anyone alive were a twinkle in their momma's eye. It hasn't brought about armageddon yet. In fact quite the oposite. Microsoft owes its dominance of the OS market to the fact that in the formative years of personal computers DOS was easily pirated and thus used more widely than any other competing product.

Yea sure, piracy has existed long before bittorrent was invented, we all know about the scene, BBSes, hell, piracy is as old as the internet, and older than that aswell. But how can you deny that bittorrent and P2P applications like Kazaa, Napster and Limewire has made piracy a much larger problem than it ever was in the days of BBSes? What point exactly are you trying to make? Yea, piracy is old, but it was NEVER as big as it is now...

And Abachler, not long ago i saw you discussing the Jaqcuard Loom, the ENIAC and the Z3, yet nobody mentioned that you wasn't around back when these machines was invented, it didn't make your point any less valid.
In fact, you just said it yourself, piracy is probably older than 90% of the members in here, yourself included, so how come you can dismiss Trennto's arguments solely because he is young, what do YOU know about piracy? You're not old enough either are you?

Yarin
07-08-2008, 03:02 PM
>>What it does is destroy our morals.
So does masturbation and pornography.

But somehow I turned out ok.....
Says you.

whiteflags
07-08-2008, 03:24 PM
OP:
You seem to be upset with the fact that the new piracy completely destroys the concept of market value and most of us agree with you there. I'm not quite sure what you want us to do though. If you check the forum rules, linking to piracy sites or P2P software on the site is not tolerated. Whether or not members use those piracy tools anyway is frankly none of your business and something that the staff can not control.

I also took issue with what you said:

Giving companies like Microsoft dominance-by-theft isn't a plus side to piracy. Maybe for Bill Gates, but without piracy maybe we'll have a better OS dominating the market.
There is no reason to think that Gates is who he is today because of piracy when he actually wrote the code for the earliest versions of windows and other, earlier computers. Nor is there a reason to think that Gates invented what monopoly means, anyone dominating a market destroys competition, one of the best forces that moderate price.

zacs7
07-08-2008, 05:14 PM
So you're saying, if you got hit by a hoon in the street driving a Skyline -- you'd blame Nissan?

And what do you think would happen if torrents, "somehow" disappeared? I'm pretty sure HTTP*/FTP, IRC, and other P2P would come back on top... If you're a free software org' (like a Linux distro) then it's a fantastic way to share your product, as bandwidth and such is spread accross several people rather than some poor fool paying for all the bandwidth.

* Rapidshare (yes, a free service for uploading files) has millions, if not billions of illegal files on it. Should you blame rapidshare? Well they do remove them all the time, perhaps we'll blame HTTP.

Trennto
07-08-2008, 07:17 PM
There is no reason to think that Gates is who he is today because of piracy when he actually wrote the code for the earliest versions of windows and other, earlier computers. Nor is there a reason to think that Gates invented what monopoly means, anyone dominating a market destroys competition, one of the best forces that moderate price.

Sorry, my rant about Bill Gates was off. I was talking about the point that people are making about piracy helping companies like Microsoft gain more users. That's true, but I dont think it's a plus side to piracy. In fact, I think that open source alternatives such as some Linux could have gained many more users otherwise. If people who wanted free got open source instead of pirated Windows, then the world could have been a slightly different place. I have nothing against Bill Gates at all.

whiteflags
07-08-2008, 08:11 PM
You're welcome to confront the Chinese.

brewbuck
07-08-2008, 10:05 PM
I make my living as a human, and I still find your attitude extremely disturbing. Pirating is theft, that's all.

My attitude -- that illegally downloading software is wrong -- disturbs you? Do you have some kind of split personality disorder?

Software piracy is not theft. It does not cause a person to cease possessing something he/she previously possessed. That doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with it. The software I write costs about $2000 per copy. Do you think I'd like it if people just cracked the licensing and started using it for free? Use your brain.

medievalelks
07-09-2008, 05:31 AM
Software piracy is not theft.

Yes, it is.


It does not cause a person to cease possessing something he/she previously possessed.

It does cause a person to possess something they did not before, however. Something that costs money but that they stole.

Is it theft to steal a print of the Mona Lisa, even though another duplicate can be produced?

laserlight
07-09-2008, 05:43 AM
Technically, software piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.


Is it theft to steal a print of the Mona Lisa, even though another duplicate can be produced?
Unfortunately, that analogy is not accurate. Suppose that that painting was still under copyright, then the correct analogy is to ask if it is theft to make a copy of it and distribute the copy.

mike_g
07-09-2008, 05:45 AM
Originally Posted by brewbuck View Post
Software piracy is not theft.

Yes, it is.
No its not. There is a big difference.

medievalelks
07-09-2008, 06:06 AM
No its not. There is a big difference.

What do you call it when you take something that is for sale without paying for it?

Just because the medium makes it easier to do doesn't change the fact that it's stealing.

mike_g
07-09-2008, 06:11 AM
Well, brewbuck already explained the difference. I'm not saying piracy is good, but its not the same as stealing from someone.

medievalelks
07-09-2008, 06:14 AM
Technically, software piracy is copyright infringement, not theft.


So it's theft of copyright privileges. You're taking from the creator his control of distribution. It's also theft of potential sales.

Trennto
07-09-2008, 06:34 AM
Sorry, Brewbuck. I miss-read your post. You were disturbed by my attack of torrents, not my attack of piracy. (plus, I couldn't help turning someone's line against them)

However, thinking that piracy is not theft is nonsense. There are many ways to steal, it doesn't just have to be taking away someone's possession's literally. In this case, a product was illegally duplicated, which in a way simulates the act of actually taking it from the store. Someone still has something that belongs to someone else without paying for it.

If you had the power to instantly copy someone's car for example, no it would not be theft (although quite an unfair advantage). However, if someone is selling cars and you copy one so you don't have to buy it, you didn't physically take away a car, but you stole possible profit and still got the product for free. Piracy is illegal for a reason.

matsp
07-09-2008, 06:41 AM
I think it is clear (to most people) that software piracy is illegal. It is not theft in the eyes of the law. You may simplify the legal separation and say that it is or amounts to the same thing, but technically, by law, copyright infringement (which is "copying without the right to do so") is not the same thing as theft (which is "taking an object without the right to do so").

Copyright law is also quite different in different countries, which makes it more complicated, whilst, essentially, the laws against theft are very similar.

--
Mats