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maxorator
03-26-2008, 10:11 AM
Tibet has always been a separate nationality, just like Estonians. Tibetans have a different culture than Chinese, just like Estonians have a different culture than Russians. They have their own language, just like Estonians have. The only difference between us is that there are 5x more Tibetans and Tibet is not an independant country. They are suffering the same terror that Estonians suffered in the Soviet Union. Luckily Estonia is free now, but due to the stubborness of China, Tibet is still occupied.

Some Chinese are claiming that Tibetans are terrorists and worse than al Qaeda. One of my teachers is a buddhist (but an Estonian) and he has introduced the Tibetan culture and religion to us a little. Their religion is totally pacifistic, even more than Christianity is. I don't see any way they could even hurt a fly. Their religion is based on energy channels in their body and the belief that they can explore and understand their minds better when meditating.

Tibetans are sending their children to India so they could get proper Tibetan education, because China is probably hostile against all other cultures.

I don't see how China could claim they're better than the Soviet Union was... the same terror is there too.

I would also like to hear your opinion.

matsp
03-26-2008, 10:14 AM
I don't see how China could claim they're better than the Soviet Union was... the same terror is there too.

I'd agree with that [and the rest of your post].

--
Mats

indigo0086
03-26-2008, 10:33 AM
The Olympics couldn't have come at a better time. I hear that Olympic participants have to sign a contract not to comment on the events. But since the press is going to be there as it is I wonder how they'll deal with that without seeming like the steel arm that they are already perceived to be.

PING
03-26-2008, 10:36 AM
Democracy >> Socialism :)

abachler
03-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Well, as soon as we figure out a solution to a billion man army that doesnt involve making the planet glow so bright it lights up the martian sky we could maybe impliment a regime change there. Until then the political reality is china does what it wants adn as logn as it doesnt attack our interests there is little we will do about it. We may be the 800lb Gorilla, but china is the fat kid that you cant punch hard enough to hurt.

indigo0086
03-26-2008, 10:49 AM
Well, as soon as we figure out a solution to a billion man army that doesnt involve making the planet glow so bright it lights up the martian sky we could maybe impliment a regime change there. Until then the political reality is china does what it wants adn as logn as it doesnt attack our interests there is little we will do about it. We may be the 800lb Gorilla, but china is the fat kid that you cant punch hard enough to hurt.

he's more like the fat kid who wears a shield of a billion other fat kids.

abachler
03-26-2008, 11:04 AM
Either way, we will run out of bullets before they run out of people. What we need is an army of terminators.

PING
03-26-2008, 11:14 AM
Either way, we will run out of bullets before they run out of people. What we need is an army of terminators.!

If you do that, what is the difference between you and the Nazis ?

indigo0086
03-26-2008, 11:41 AM
Either way, we will run out of bullets before they run out of people. What we need is an army of terminators.

We really just have to stay put, without nukes neither of us are going to breach one another's defenses. With sea and air superiority they won't make it here, and with their ground superiority we won't hold anything there.

"This isn't Nam, there are rules"

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 11:55 AM
It's not the Chinese army that stops an all out protest of its imperialistic politics. It's their economy and their UN Security Council permanent seat.

The Tibetan unfortunately got the rotten deal; i.e. lots of smiles and nods from the international community but no real support to their rightful claims.

The Dalai Lama was here in Portugal recently and didn't even got received by the Prime Minister. 2 weeks after that he went to China to sign more economic deals. The tyrannic force, these days, is economy. Everything gets reduced to that and all decisions are based on that.

I'm truly sorry for the Tibetan people. And I sympathize profoundly with their cause (even though they have no one else to blame but themselves). Hopefully someone will boycot the Olympic Games, and someone who doesn't - will make sure they will disrespect that paper they are being forced to sign. It will not solve anything but will just further embarrass the chinese regime and raise even more awareness.

Dave_Sinkula
03-26-2008, 11:57 AM
If you do that, what is the difference between you and the Nazis ?Godwin's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) in 8. :p

indigo0086
03-26-2008, 12:30 PM
Godwin's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law) in 8. :p

Godwin's law, forever sound.

abachler
03-26-2008, 01:04 PM
I posit that the terms terrorist and terrorism are derivative violations of the spirit of Godwin's law. As for the notion that the press will violate their agreement, it won't matter. People are already aware, they just don't care. Unless they find oil, diamonds, or uranium in Tibet, it will be business as usual.

PING
03-26-2008, 01:09 PM
Godwin's in 8.

Lol, but seriously, i think that comparison is apt for the post mentioned.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 01:34 PM
Democracy >> Socialism :)

Socialism does not rule out democracy...

abachler
03-26-2008, 01:53 PM
Democracy is a form of government, Socialism is a type of economy. Uneducated people are alwasy comparing apples and oranges. Always remember, the USSR was a Republic, the same as the USA. Republics are not Democracies and they cannot by their very nature be democratic.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Socialism is a type of economy.

Hardly, it's a political ideology...

abachler
03-26-2008, 02:07 PM
Hardly, it's a political ideology...


Uneducated people are alwasy comparing apples and oranges.


As an economic system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system), socialism is often characterized by state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State), worker, or community ownership of the means of production (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production), goals which have been attributed to, and claimed by, a number of political parties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_parties) and governments throughout history.

Reading is great, you should try it sometime.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 02:15 PM
Go read a book or something.

Don't tell me you didn't read the first line in that wiki article of yours?


Socialism refers to group of ideologies and political movements with the goal of a socio-economic system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community

Even though socialism is basically about economics and how to spend money, that doesn't mean it is a type of economy itself.

psychopath
03-26-2008, 02:19 PM
Democratic Socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism)

abachler
03-26-2008, 02:23 PM
Even though socialism is basically about economics and how to spend money, that doesn't mean it is a type of economy itself.



An economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy)(from Greek: οικονομία, ikonomía, "one who manages a household", derived from the noun οικος, íkos, "house", and verb νέμω, némo, "distribute or manage") is the realized system of human activities related to the production, distribution, exchange, and consumption of goods and services of a country or other area.



I take you didn't read a book yet. Trust me, it won't make your head hurt, much.

maxorator
03-26-2008, 02:28 PM
Socialism does not rule out democracy...
Communism does. ;)

Neo1
03-26-2008, 02:30 PM
Except that it is.

Funny how you cite a wiki article as proof of your theory that socialism is a type of economy, and then completely ignore the first couple of lines, where it basically prooves my point.


Socialism refers to a group of ideologies

Excuse me for being extremely nationalistic and discriminating, but you Americans are all the same, i don't care what you think...

Edit:


Communism does.

Perhaps, but that was not what PING said ;)

PING
03-26-2008, 02:55 PM
Socialism is a type of economy. Uneducated people are alwasy comparing apples and oranges.

Please get your facts right before saying things which make you look stupid..



Republics are not Democracies and they cannot by their very nature be democratic.

India (Hindi: भारत Bhārat; see also other names), officially the Republic of India (Hindi: भारतीय गणराज्य Bhāratiya Gaṇarājya), is a country in South Asia. It is the seventh largest country by geographical area, the second most populous country, and the most populous democracy in the world.

I fail to see your reasoning that republics cannot be democracies..

A republic is a state or country that is not led by a hereditary monarch,[1][2] where the people of that state or country (or at least a part of that people)[3] have impact on its government,[4] and that is usually indicated as a republic.[5]

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 03:04 PM
He tells you to go read a book but uses a wiki article to his argument. What was so funny is that the wiki article proves he's wrong. The Abachler troll never ceases to amaze me and always gives me a few good laughs.

Anyways, you are right. Socialism is a political ideology. And like all political ideologies it naturally is also about economics. He's the one comparing oranges to apples. Worry not.

But you are wrong on something else; it's not to do with how American's think. It's to do with how that particular person thinks. You should do a search on Abachler posts. You'll be amazed at how much crap he throws without even knowing what he's talking about. Start with "timor".

Don't give him the attention he wants.

EDIT: Wow. And I missed that Republics are not Democracies. Oh my!

PING
03-26-2008, 03:13 PM
But you are wrong on something else; it's not to do with how American's think.

I specifically meant that post of his.. I don't think most Americans are as retarded as him.

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 03:20 PM
This is however a breakthrough in Political Science and should open the newspapers. France is not a democracy!

abachler
03-26-2008, 03:21 PM
Funny how you cite a wiki article as proof of your theory that socialism is a type of economy, and then completely ignore the first couple of lines, where it basically prooves my point.


Funny how you cite the first half of the first sentence, and then completely ignore the rest of the article. You eurotrash are all the same, I don't care because you don't think.

Dave_Sinkula
03-26-2008, 03:23 PM
<<Briefly putting on mod hat to mention rule #8 (http://cboard.cprogramming.com/announcement.php?f=3&a=51) about avoiding posts that "purposely insult or incite another person">>

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 03:28 PM
I don't care because you don't think.

No. You don't think. For your information Socialism is a Political Ideology whether you want to believe in it, or not. And I don't care about proving it to you. And for your information the United States is a Republic and by your account is consequently not a Democracy.

Please shutup.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 03:30 PM
Funny how you cite the first half of the first sentence, and then completely ignore the rest of the article. You eurotrash are all the same, I don't care because you don't think.

As both me and Mario have already pointed out, socialism is ofcourse related to economics, as are all political ideologies. The fact of the matter is, that socialism itself is nothing but an ideology, and saying that it is a type of economy is plain wrong.


Socialism
A system of social organization in which property and the distribution of income are subject to social control rather than individual determination or market forces.

Socialism refers to both a set of doctrines and the political movements that aspire to put these doctrines into practice.

All you have to back up your theories are vague passages in an article that starts out by saying that socialism is a political ideology. Don't they teach you politics in American schools? I could have told you the same thing when i was 12...

Oh and another thing, you can't change your entire posts with the edit function after other people have replied. If anyone was to go through this thread later, and see all of the quotes that are in my posts of stuff you have said, they'd have no way of knowing what i was talking about, since you decided to remove the original content.

abachler
03-26-2008, 03:49 PM
No content was removed. The fact that you are trying to use an ad hoc appeal to authority of someone who has already been on my ignore list for some time now does make your case stronger.

I see you still haven't read a book, so I will suggest one in particular.

http://www.amazon.com/Communist-Manifesto-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140447571/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206568127&sr=8-1

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 03:57 PM
Oh my god! Your are using Karl Marx to justify your argument!? How insanely ignorant of you!

You even know what Socialism is? how it is described? How it evolved centuries before Karl Marx?

You may ignore me. But that is because every time I step in your toes. Your arguments are always riddled with the ridicule. What makes it bad however is that you insult and bash people in the process. You insult people, call them idiots, dumb and ignorant and yet its exactly your arguments and the way you so desperately try to prove them that make you that.

You are dangerous Abachler.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 04:01 PM
No content was removed.

Read some of my posts on the previous page, there are several quotes of something you have said, that is no longer in your posts? I did not make it up if that is what you think, content WAS removed, why are you lying?


The fact that you are trying to use an ad hoc appeal to authority of someone who has already been on my ignore list for some time now does make your case stronger.

Even if you haven't read Mario's replies, my point still stands.



I see you still haven't read a book, so I will suggest one in particular.

http://www.amazon.com/Communist-Manifesto-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140447571/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206568127&sr=8-1

I see you still haven't provided anything that suggests you are right? Did you read my quote from Britannica Encyclopedia? That article was written and verified by people who know quite alot about this stuff, for you to discredit that is very....arrogant. You think too much of yourself.

I have many books on politics and political ideologies, most of them are from school, each and everyone of them will tell you that Socialism is an ideology. I can tell you, if you were to say something else in any of my social science classes, you'd be the laughing stock of the class really.

But whatever, this debate is at a standstill until you can provide any proof of your outrageous theories, other than some vague passages in an article that basically starts out by proving you wrong.

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 04:04 PM
Yes apparently I've been on his ignore list. Ever since I told him to prove himself wrong instead of me proving him wrong. He didn't like it.

abachler
03-26-2008, 04:13 PM
More hyperbole, yak yak, yak. Regardless of your claims, Karl Marx, the father of socialism, is the final authority on the matter. Anything else is just commentary.

Neo1
03-26-2008, 04:19 PM
More hyperbole, yak yak, yak. Regardless of your claims, Karl Marx, the father of socialism, is the final authority on the matter. Anything else is just commentary.

This is true, so please provide a quote from Karl Marx that says that "Socialism is a type of economy"...

abachler
03-26-2008, 04:26 PM
Prove your own argument by providing one that says it is not. I am through with this discussion until you make some actual effort to educate yourself. fin

Mario F.
03-26-2008, 04:27 PM
Karl Marx is not the father of Socialism! No one is. It's a political movement that started as a social movement probably in the late 18th or early 19th century!

God! How stupid can you be! Have you ever read Engels!? Have you ever read the history of Europe!? Socialism predates Karl Marx. And more the Communism Manifest is everything but a description of socialism. Don't confuse Socialism with Communism. Just because Communism coins itself as Socialism, doesn't mean it is.

Are you saying that the current political parties that won the last elections in half of europe are communist? Gosh... you really annoy me!

EDIT: How convenient of you to ignore me Abachler. I can run around you in circles. You prefer it this way. You don't have to counter my arguments.

EDIT2: I just been on a quick conversation with a friend of mine. I never read the Manifest. Only passages. But he's exactly a student of Political Sciences in Lisbon's Universidade de Letras (University). He confirmed me the Manifest noweher mentions Socialism (or Communism for that matter) to be an economical model. On the contrary Karl Marx was particularly careful to relate Communism with the Socialist social movements that were common in Europe.

Neo1
03-27-2008, 12:14 AM
Prove your own argument by providing one that says it is not.

I've already provided several articles that says it is not. (And so have you actually)
All you did was throw an Amazon link to the Comunist Manifest, and then you told me to educate myself. Just because you think you are right doesn't make it so Abachler, as i've said countless times, you have yet to proove anything in this stupid theory of yours.

You've already shown that you have no idea what a republic is, do you really want us to believe you now? Every other person on earth that i know says something different than you do, and you have no substantial evidence to back it up, whatsoever.

It is not ME who needs to proove you wrong, it is YOU who needs to proove you right, but obviously, you can't, because you are WRONG.

Edit:

The more i think about it, the more i realize how riddiculous this is. Just because i can't necessarily proove you wrong, doesn't make you right. It's like those religious nutcases saying that god exists purely based on the fact that nobody can proove he doesn't. I could make a million different stupid claims about something i have no idea about, and in most cases you'd have no way to proove me wrong, but as long as i can't proove myself right, it's all just bull........ that i made up in my head.

Ignorance and incompetence will be the death of us, long before war and terror!


I am through with this discussion until you make some actual effort to educate yourself. fin

Oh, and i suppose you want us to believe that you are well educated on the subject?