Thread: C programming career advices

Hey people,

I am about to graduate from an university, but i don't know how much I worth, and how to talk to employers during my interviews. Can some good nature veteran programmers share your knowledge that you wish somebody had told you years ago that could help you tremedously later on.

I am not smart, but i have a solid understanding about c/c++ and oop. i am most interested in c/c++ low-level to intermediate programming. I just began to learn about MFC & Win32. I don't know ODBC but knows JDBC better. I also have a beginner level opengl understanding (taking a comp. graphics now). During 2nd & 3yr i worked lots of c/c++/java projects.

Any good resources on the internet that you can recommand?
Anything i should know about employers before i apply? interviewed?
Anything i should avoid? be cautious? be aware of?
What's appropriate to say and not to say during an interview?

--TING

>> As a recent graduate, you're worth nothing unless you can boast real experience on a real project

I disagree with this. As a recent graduate, you are worth something if you show potential to be able to succeed. For some employers, showing that you can go to university and do well is important. If you can show that you understand what you've learned, even if you learned it in a class several years earlier, then that is important. You can apply for a job that wants you to write Java despite learning C and C++ in school, as long as you show that you learned and retained the knowledge.

I'm not saying real-world projects are bad. In fact, if you can work on some that is an excellent boost to your resume and your experience. But if you haven't then that doesn't mean you can't get a job.

>> the potential employer almost always asks questions that are related to your basic data structures and algorithms knowledge such as sorts, searches, hash tables, trees, linked lists, grammars, and that kind of stuff.

I agree. We always ask about these kinds of things, and we are looking for real understanding and ability to apply that understanding.

Train to be an accountant

ting: Why not be your own boss? Then its just a matter of finding a client and/or something to do. For my college project I'm making an epos system for the chinese where I worked doing deliveries. Basically its just using old refurbished dells + a printer running on some java software I'm in the process of making, but it will sell for a fraction of the cost of what the rest of the stuff on the market does and can (hopefully) be sold on. Its only recently become apparent to me that there loads of opportunity to make stuff for small businesses and it means you wont get stuck with a 9-5, you just have to ask around.

esbo: You're in no position to rip into the OP here. Its not like anyone would give you a job as a programmer. Or if they did then they would deserve all the disaster they can get

Originally Posted by mike_g

it will sell for a fraction of the cost of what the rest of the stuff on the market does and can (hopefully) be sold on.

Can you explain? I don't quite understand the previous sentence.

Originally Posted by mike_g

Its only recently become apparent to me that there loads of opportunity to make stuff for small businesses and it means you wont get stuck with a 9-5, you just have to ask around.

Thanks for this tip. I think i get it. what would you recommend for a bunch of new graduates that are thinking of starting a company. something that you hope somebody had told you before you opened your own business?

i heard some very bad thing about contact binding & its legal consequence. what do you think i should know before i sign a contract, for employments or taking on a project.

Everyone is welcome to comment as well.

--TING

Originally Posted by mike_g

ting: Why not be your own boss? Then its just a matter of finding a client and/or something to do. For my college project I'm making an epos system for the chinese where I worked doing deliveries. Basically its just using old refurbished dells + a printer running on some java software I'm in the process of making, but it will sell for a fraction of the cost of what the rest of the stuff on the market does and can (hopefully) be sold on. Its only recently become apparent to me that there loads of opportunity to make stuff for small businesses and it means you wont get stuck with a 9-5, you just have to ask around.

esbo: You're in no position to rip into the OP here. Its not like anyone would give you a job as a programmer. Or if they did then they would deserve all the disaster they can get

I was not ripping into the OP just suggesting the programming might not be a great career.

I am 100% certain I would never have been able to break into the C industry if I had not started out with an internship. All the C jobs around here require over 10 years experience as well as systems programming experience. Nobody is writing brand new stuff in C if they can avoid it. It's either a driver of some kind or some multi-million line legacy system.

Oddly, C is an extremely common choice in Open Source circles. I don't quite understand why. But as others said, contributing to Open Source is another great way to demonstrate your proficiency.

This makes C a potentially lucrative language, but it is also extremely hard to get hired. If you can, get an apprenticeship or internship as soon as possible.

Thank you!!! These are Gems. Thank you all (Prelude, the Code Goddess; Matsp, the Kernel Hacker; DavidP I'Anziano; Daved, esbo).

I am shocked !!! I've already tried as hard as I can yet never seem to be enough for the real world. I am an average person who does average in school, but I study hard everyday to stay sharp in programming in c/c++; I am learning MFC & Win32 outside of class (school doesn't teach us about that), and more subtle points in c/c++ compiling & linking errors everyday after school. I like to tackle bugs from all angles and find satisification in doing so in the process. Can these personal attributes work towards my advantages when I am applying a decent c/c++ job?

I am quite confident that I can answer most c/c++ question right with some interview preparations. I also have solid training in oop and java, backed up by 4 to 5 school-project experiences.

Please do post feedback(positive or even negative), i'd really appricate it. I really want to pursue a career in c/c++/java and i need to know the challenges ahead. Please feel free to bombard me with the reality; I want to be bombarded, because the reality is what matters.

I've learned that in realtiy:

1) Schooling worths little or nothing; project and real work are the 1st thing employers look for
2) Understanding of STL and data structures are crucial for interviews
3) This forum is full of gems advices and good people, i'd like to contribute back when i become a veteran programmer (hopefully sometimes soon =.=)

I still have a few questions:

1) Do i stand a chance if I want to apply for a c/c++ job that offers $36,000CAD?
2) $40,000 CAD?
3) $45,000 CAD?
4) What websites/resources would you recommend?

--TING

Also Thanks to mike_g and brewbuck comments !!! I just saw your posting.

--TING

Originally Posted by novacain

When looking at a graduate I am more interested in their work ethic, enthusiasm and thought process (as I understand we will have to 'mould' them).
I will ask questions to see if they consider 'edge' cases (how the code can fail) and what to do about it. I listen to what questions they ask and if what we do excites them.
I see if they find my jokes funny....

Being willing to learn, excited by the work, able to work in the team and having common sense are the factors I use to decide between candidates (who usually have similar education).


IME...

Big firms usually have better mentoring programs (experienced coders have more time to help you).

Small firms are more interesting to work for and value employees more (your knowledge of their systems is an important asset to the company).

Coders here are in such short supply we are importing them. Last time we hired we did not have one local applicant and hired someone from the UK (who then immigrated to Australia).

See that the sort of attitutude, you are no longer a programmer but a 'coder'.
You have gone from an artist to a painter an decorator.
It's no wonder no one in Austraila will work for you anymore.

I will say is this... It is a very good time to be graduating as a software engineer. At least here in California, we are having a very tough time filling positions.

As for experience - internships are good, but not required. If you have worked on a interesting project in the past, that will help you quite a bit. When I interview people, that are 2 main things that I look at:
1) can they code? (easy to determine via questions and tests).
2) what's their personality like? (can be a bit tougher to figure out. People tend to be nervous during interviews so it can be tough to gauge their personality).
The rest can be taught relatively easily.

Thank you all for reply. I find novacain & bithub's comments really really good. I am very grateful for your shared knowledge. What you said clarified a lot of things for us young undergraduates.

um, mr. esbo, if you make fun of me, that's fine. but please don't make fun of my friends here.

No offence, but you haven't said anything useful, and have already managed to offend at least 2 people so far including me. I think the problem is YOU and your twisted sense of humor.

In fact I suggest you quit accounting, because it might not be the greatest career for you. Being so poor with other people, you might want to consider a career in programming; programming jobs will suit you perfectly since programming is less likely to be dealing with people. if you do, let us know and we will give you a few hints about how to become a good programmer.

--TING