Thread: Gender and Language

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    835
    > Oh, so all students are he. I see.

    Don't blame me, it's the language. I try to avoid unnecessary uses of he/him, and sometimes "they" works, even if its ungrammatical, but I can't stand "s/he", or randomly choosing "he" or "she" - it's too hard keeping track of whether I'm maintaining a 1:1 ratio. If a short synonym for "he or she" starts getting used, I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon.

  2. #2
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Inside my computer
    Posts
    24,654
    I think, in this case, I blame you.
    You could easily have written it as:
    "But the very fact that it causes bugs means the students are already punishing themselves by not indenting while writing the code."
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  3. #3
    and the hat of sweating
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    3,545
    Quote Originally Posted by robatino View Post
    > Oh, so all students are he. I see.

    Don't blame me, it's the language. I try to avoid unnecessary uses of he/him, and sometimes "they" works, even if its ungrammatical, but I can't stand "s/he", or randomly choosing "he" or "she" - it's too hard keeping track of whether I'm maintaining a 1:1 ratio. If a short synonym for "he or she" starts getting used, I'll be happy to jump on the bandwagon.
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    835
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".
    I know that was intended humorously, but when AI catches up to people, that might actually happen.

  5. #5
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Inside my computer
    Posts
    24,654
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Even easier -- just call everybody "it".
    Only, that would be rude.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  6. #6
    and the hat of sweating
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    3,545
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Only, that would be rude.
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    835
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_language

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-...less_languages

    The second link has a number of examples of such languages.

  8. #8
    C++まいる!Cをこわせ!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Inside my computer
    Posts
    24,654
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?
    As you can see from the link, Japanese among one, can be very gender neutral due to words like "that someone" or "that individual" and more.
    And that's one big problem when translating from japanese to english. Lots of words lose their meaning. Stupid English.

    Quote Originally Posted by robwhit View Post
    Man, screw politically correct, what are we, a bunch of weak boned politicians?
    The word is there, it's not offensive except to over-sensitive people, it works fine, and it's not fabricated based on some "PC" perception.
    Just use it!!
    Gosh!
    Does that mean you endorse the use of "he" for all?
    Last edited by Elysia; 02-08-2008 at 02:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adak View Post
    io.h certainly IS included in some modern compilers. It is no longer part of the standard for C, but it is nevertheless, included in the very latest Pelles C versions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    You mean it's included as a crutch to help ancient programmers limp along without them having to relearn too much.

    Outside of your DOS world, your header file is meaningless.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    2,129
    Quote Originally Posted by Elysia View Post
    Does that mean you endorse the use of "he" for all?
    Sure, why not. I'm also fine with "she" for all. Just... I ask that you don't do it in a feminine rebellious attitude sort of way. That's just annoying.

    edit: I'm not implying that you do that.
    Last edited by robwhit; 02-08-2008 at 11:37 AM.

  10. #10
    Reverse Engineer maxorator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    2,318
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    I use (s)he.
    Quote Originally Posted by cpjust View Post
    Do any other languages have a word for 'he or she'?
    Estonian doesn't. We don't have gender-specific words. We don't have future forms. We even have near to 0 prepositions! Sounds simple ? But we have LOTS of suffixes which are difficult to form.
    "The Internet treats censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

  11. #11
    Chinese pâté foxman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    404
    We do have gender-specific words in French. In fact, every thing has a gender in French, even a table or a book.

    Standard Mandarin has also gender-specific pronoun, but only when written.

    By the way, maxorator, your cat looks pretty cool.

  12. #12
    Malum in se abachler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,195
    I believe the pronoun he is gender neutral, IIRC the masculine singular pronoun from old english became deprecated in favor of the neutral form, whereas the feminine did not.

    Feminazis are always complaining about something they know nothing about because they can't get laid.

    There now THAT is sexist, the use of HE as a gender neutral term is NOT. So like grow up and read a book.

  13. #13
    C++ Witch laserlight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    28,413
    That's why we need to add a new pro-noun to English to mean he or she but in a gender neutral way.
    That pronoun, ironically, is "he".
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarne Stroustrup (2000-10-14)
    I get maybe two dozen requests for help with some sort of programming or design problem every day. Most have more sense than to send me hundreds of lines of code. If they do, I ask them to find the smallest example that exhibits the problem and send me that. Mostly, they then find the error themselves. "Finding the smallest program that demonstrates the error" is a powerful debugging tool.
    Look up a C++ Reference and learn How To Ask Questions The Smart Way

  14. #14
    and the hat of sweating
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    3,545
    Quote Originally Posted by laserlight View Post
    That pronoun, ironically, is "he".
    Yeah, but that's a very old (politically incorrect) rule and it's obviously ambiguous.
    They need a singular version of "they".

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    2,129
    Man, screw politically correct, what are we, a bunch of weak boned politicians?

    The word is there, it's not offensive except to over-sensitive people, it works fine, and it's not fabricated based on some "PC" perception.

    Just use it!!

    Gosh!
    Last edited by robwhit; 02-08-2008 at 12:16 AM.

Popular pages Recent additions subscribe to a feed

Similar Threads

  1. 100000 women
    By Snafuist in forum A Brief History of Cprogramming.com
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 05-27-2009, 07:41 AM