Thread: Hussein hanged

@Sentral: I'm sure that Hussein, Hitler and Stalin enjoyed the pain and suffering of the people that they thought deserved it. How about this: we're better than these types of sociopaths until we engage in the same types of behaviors as them. Okay, so society has to put people like this to death, at least be realistic and professional about it.

I do not believe the death of Hussein will lead to peace. I think it's purely symbolic and will serve little function. So far, it seems as if there has been an immediate spike in the violence...more souls being lost, both Iraqi and American. I cannot possibly imagine how bad it is over there right now, not being able to walk around in the capital without knowing if the garbage can next to you is going to blow up.

What's scary is that the presence of US troops in Iraq has lasted longer than it took to defeat the Nazis. It's also scary that we have yet to capture and secure the capital. Our military is not big enough to defeat the insurgency.

I also just finished reading the Iraq study group report. they do not believe that any military or economic measures are going to produce any real results without political reconciliation amongst Iraqis and the neighboring countries.

Originally Posted by Sentral

@Dave: The Iraqi people don't respect his death. So why should we?

Anyone who calls himself a human being should. If death was the price he was to pay, he paid it. We can do little more on this planet.

Originally Posted by BobMcGee123

What's scary is that the presence of US troops in Iraq has lasted longer than it took to defeat the Nazis.

It's been over a decade already? Or do you mean when the US finally left all bases in Germany?

These kinds of things just get to the point where you don't know who to believe anymore. Governments lie to you through the corrupt media all the time, and often times the media themselves either lie or blow things way out of proportion. Eventually, it all boils down to "how does this affect my life? DOES this affect my life at all?" and 9999 times out of 10000, the answer is a solid "no".

Humans in general seem to have this thing about fixing the "problems" of others before their own. When such a problem doesn't exist, they seem to create them in order to then turn around and fix them, meanwhile placing blame for said problem on someone else. This whole debacle in Iraq is a perfect example of this concept.

Originally Posted by Nodtveidt

Humans in general seem to have this thing about fixing the "problems" of others before their own.

The sad truth is that humans attempt to fix other's problems that not only don't affect them, but also the people that it does affect doesn't always want it fixed in the first place. People show pity on those who don't want or need pity and they tend to only make lives worse for those people. If people worked and voted on their own issues, we'd have a much better world.

What's scary is that the presence of US troops in Iraq has lasted longer than it took to defeat the Nazis.

While I do not think we are making progress in Iraq due to abandonment of some key military principles that, based on my dicussions with various enlisted personell, NCO's, and officers in the conflict, we have abandoned and/or forgot about. However, to compare the downfall of the Nazi regime which was fought with different weapons in a different time under different political circumstances is well...disappointing Bob. You know that is not a valid comparison. Those two issues are so different that comparing them is quite honestly a fallacy in logic.

As for the death of Saddam I have no remorse and no regrets except that we did not liberate Iraq earlier when we had the chance. We had to turn a blind eye to the chemical weapons attack on the Kurdis in the north but that is when we should have made plans to remove this man from power.

Death in itself is not sad nor is it bad and we all will experience it. It is something to be respected simply because of the one that has died. The respect does not come from the act or the event...but from the person involved. Death of a loved one is sad b/c you 'loved' them which is the key issue. You will miss the person b/c of how they treated you and how they have shown you love. When we think of anyone dying we immediately refer to that image in our minds but I assure you this was not that image. There are those unfortunate times when one most certainly deserves to have that gift taken from them b/c they have used it to abuse, torture, and harm others. Killing of the accused does not make you as low as the accused and to equate those is another logical fallacy.

I doubt this is justice for all those who were affected by the regime but perhaps it will give some closure to the events that have destroyed their lives. My only hope is that someday Iraq can rise out of all of this and become the once oil rich nation that they were. Her people at the very least deserve this and deserve the right to lead a happy fulfilled life without the abuses of a tyrant and dictator. I don't know if Iraq will ever get there but I hope one day she does.

As for respect for the dead here...respect is always earned, not simply granted. As for the satire I do not deem it to be appropriate nor in good taste but I will not go as far as to say the death should have never happened. But again many of you here engage in satire over other issues that I deem equally as inappropriate. Some things are just not funny. This is one of them.

Or do you mean when the US finally left all bases in Germany?

Wait, you think the US doesn't have bases in germany? One of us doesn't know what you are talking about, and I hope it's me.

You know that is not a valid comparison. Those two issues are so different that comparing them is quite honestly a fallacy in logic.

Seeing as how you know that I know that it's not a valid comparison you clearly misunderstood my point. I was not making a direct comparison, set in stone, blah blah blah. I realize there are far too many factors involved to be considered to try to make, say, an argument from that comparison. I do, however, consider it an excellent proxy for measuring the progress in Iraq today.

While I do not think we are making progress in Iraq due to abandonment of some key military principles that, based on my dicussions with various enlisted personell, NCO's, and officers in the conflict, we have abandoned and/or forgot about

What, exactly, do you mean by this? Mind you, your own personal discussions with military is anecdotal and can easily be countered by anybody else's 'own personal discussions with...' etc

As for the death of Saddam I have no remorse and no regrets except that we did not liberate Iraq earlier when we had the chance

Yeah, 1982 then 88 then after the first gulf war was when much of this happened...so then in 2003 we get around liberating the country.

Will the displaced Baathists manage to secure power again?

In Iraq, no, I highly doubt it. But it does seem like the perfect conditions for someone as bad or worse to take power...that seems to be the route headed in.


EDIT:
And what *really* bothers me is that, throughout the Arab/Moslem world, the populations are predominantly Sunni. Shia + Sunni rivalries, Iran (shia persians) trying to develop the bomb with Saudi Arabia and Egypt (sunni arab) fearful of Iran's growing influence in shia Iraq...scary scary scary.

[sarcasm] Oh my heavens! I'm such an idiot! I thought a man who ordered the slaughter of 5000 civilians was a bad man! I see that it is very honorable! [/sarcasm]

Honestly, just chop his head off, and throw him in a ditch. But Nooooooooo! A whole trial was setup (costing money!) for this disgrace of a human. Christ...people today are such p***y's!

Originally Posted by Sentral

[sarcasm] Oh my heavens! I'm such an idiot! I thought a man who ordered the slaughter of 5000 civilians was a bad man! I see that it is very honorable! [/sarcasm]

Honestly, just chop his head off, and throw him in a ditch. But Nooooooooo! A whole trial was setup (costing money!) for this disgrace of a human. Christ...people today are such p***y's!

We forgive you for being 16, Sentral.

Dac, you might as well just delete your post right now as that's the same thing I posted. Warning label and all, it's still considered smut around here to provide proof to those who seem to doubt it. As for relating this video to porn, I don't see anyone around here doubting pornography exists, however, if they did, I wouldn't go against anyone pointing to proof of its existence. I'm not a moderator around here, though, so my opinion is by default invalid. I personally find it more childish to consider the video of his execution to be sadistic imagery of a bad guy's death than to consider it what it really is; a documentation of a historical event.

Originally Posted by dac

my bad, i just skimmed the previous posts for a linky and found none, so you know lol. imo its the death of a man who created many deaths, he got what he deserves, may be not fair and square but its good enough.

Yes, finally SOMEONE understands! He did get what he deserved.

For the others: So what if people joke of his death. It's none of your business to tell people "Respect his death!". People can do whatever they want.

I love the hanging video, BTW! Everyone wearing balaclavas was REAL classy!

Yes, I am a sick person.

Originally Posted by BobMcGee123

Or do you mean when the US finally left all bases in Germany?

Wait, you think the US doesn't have bases in germany? One of us doesn't know what you are talking about, and I hope it's me.

Rhetorical and ironic. As in, Germany became sovereign in 1991 and we are still there.

My other comment was to the effect that an insurgency existed in Germany for about 10 years following the end of World War II following the end a major combat operations.

But I'm not really in this discussion, so I'll (hopefully) quietly slip away.

Being personally against the death sentence, I add that to my indignation at Saddam's execution.

Gloating over an human hanging at the end of a rope is no different from the type of attitude shown by those we now execute when it was their time executing others. Which only serves to show how equal we all are.

Saddam died for all the right reasons though. For having been a ruthless dictator. Curiously he was captured for all the wrong reasons. For weapons of mass destruction (I came to hate this term) that never existed, for supporting Al Kaeda which he never did. They were enemies, for pete's sake! To this day I still am shocked at how the American people bought this last argument. The WMDs at least were more credible.

But meanwhile, curiously enough... or not... other dictators, rutheless, murderous, are out there. In North Korea, Zimbabwe, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast,... Some of these that killed more people than Saddam ever dreamed of. I don't see that same interest in seeing their countries invaded, their leaders captured and executed. I wonder...

Meanwhile Saddam killed all those Kurds with a friendly USA and most of Europe. It took them 30 more years to stop being nice to Iraq and sell them weapons and train their soldiers. For those of you who are still trying, spare me the speech of him being a bad person.

Didn't Saddam house al-Zarqawi as a guest during his reign? He's been known to have had several terrorist leaders as guest... you don't think all this terrorism stuff might have, you know, come up once or twice during dinner conversation? Now, I know it's a known fact that Saddam fundamentalist Islam, but have you ever heard of the phrase "The enemy of my enemy is my friend?" While I can't prove that Saddam has any connection to any of the major terrorist attacks on the USA or England over the past 20 or so years, but I have trouble believe that he wouldn't assist (at least in funding) any sort of those attacks. After all, if it's not his men doing the dirty deed then why would anyone point a finger at him.

Iraq sits in the very center of several extreme fundamentalist Islamic nations. You have to believe there was a lot of terrorist traffic flowing through their borders at all time. That includes weapons, plans, and what have you. If they didn't participate in it, then they turned the other cheek for far too long. I'm also not convinced they weren't hiding anything at the time they were jerking the UN inspectors around.

Saddam was sentenced and executed by his own people... the US may have handed them the tools and motive, but they pulled the trigger and many of them feel no remorse. They wanted him dead and frankly so did I. As for the other leaders you mentioned, I wouldn't mind seeing them out of commission, either.

While I don't fully support our Iraq effort, I don't think the fact that Saddam is out is a bad thing. Parts of the country is in extremely rough shape right now, but I like to put it this way: If you're trying to build a nicer house over a run down mess, there's going to be a period after you knock down that mess where it's going to look worse than it did in the first place. Countries don't get put up in a day... or a year... or even a decade. Look at world history. Nations take a long time to establish and I haven't lost faith in the effort.