Oh, now did I get it?
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Oh, now did I get it?
I'll admit, I learn much more about world history from watching the History channel and Discovery channel than I did in my world history class in highschool. I don't know how broad my knowledge is currently, but I would doubt anything I would say I know is wrong. I don't think the History channel alters history for the benefit of entertainment. There is plenty of entertaining history out there. No need to add more.
I just hope one day our great-great-great-great-grand children can one day turn on the TV... or hologram room, or whatever... and see "The adventures of the Cboard as only the History Channel can bring you".
Hmm then Nigeria is on of the big exceptions along with Togo, Ghana and all the others that have some coastline, with over 10 million inhibatitans Lagos as a city that is directly near the sea .... with Ibadan with its huge population which is only a 2 hour drive from Lagos, with the Delta State, Cross - River state etc ...Quote:
Originally Posted by MDofRockyView
Either this was a very bad documentary or you are very old :).Quote:
In other words, since they do not establish coastal cities this affects trade. I heard this in some documentary but it was years ago, and I forget the economist involved but he was an authority of some sort who has been involved in the development of various economic systems.
I'm not saying we should feel responsible for everything that goes on there.
When it doesn't rain, well then it doesn't rain.... desertification ... well maybe that can be our fault as well somewhere ... but thats very long fetched I guess... although there seems a direct link to global warming and desertification ...
Anyhow, drought and other "natural" things happen. At that point its not that we should help them out because of what happened during the colonial periods, no that one is called sympathy and not being indifferent for people starving. Since for all you know , you could have been born down there and you'd be the one suffering.
Now what Richie T says the "poverty trap" is so true, the borrow money, make wrong investments, they can't get a new loan in the old system since they went over the limits, so western countries create a new system allowing them to borrow more. Then early this year they said some debts were just cancelled....
Its a good thing. And again the same as with the UN sanitation programme in Kinshasa. Only cancelling debt will not help them in the long run. Cancellling their debts by removing the interest, and giving the rest of the "money" that would be used to cancel their debt to them under supervision would be better.
Let them finally take some right decisions, since they can't do this on their own , let someone else help them with it.
Here in Belgium every normal common person has acces to this social service, something called "debt negotiation" programme. Whatever, these nations should have something like this as well, a programme that would advise on what to do next, what to invest, etc etc...
If no one teached me how to write, then I'd come here and fill jibberish in this textbox....
If no one teached them how to decently do agriculture, do politics, control and run a nation .... how are they going to know. ( this is not a generalisation, there will be colonist nations that really helped their country on the way after abandoning it ).
How is it possible that in places where western people have gone , agriculture is limited to no irrigated lands and things like that. When while the westerners where there, agriculture was booming.
Just look at Zimbabwe to see the whole colonist leaving process but then in the near past and not 50 - 60 years ago. Zimbabwe's agriculture has collapsed since the westerners were forced to leave and taken away their grounds....
Yeah im just going to shut up, since I can ramble on forever probably :).Quote:
I also love the fact that a thread questioning whether topics such as these
should be discussed on this forum has become a full blown dialog on the political
and social status of Africa!
Great Kingdom? The great kingdom means a rich man is governing other people. It is not a good civilization.Quote:
As for the rest of your statement (the earliest bits)... You really need to learn about African history. You need to learn for instance, that among other things, big and important civilizations existed in Africa, that while not having spread past african borders, they were nonetheless rich both in culture and resources. This is particularly true of African regions known today as Ethiopia (the incredibly rich Aksum civilization), The Ghana and The Mali, The Great Zimbabwe, and most especially the Swahili Kingdoms that shadowed Egypt (both military and in resources) for the most part of their history and lived in Eastern Africa.
When you talk about history, you should come with proof. Proof is not some old jars here. The proof is the effect of that nations on each other. I live in a very old country, oldest maybe. We know there was a greece that we had some problems with it and sometimes we were in peace. It is not concluded by an old jar.
Unfortunatly western countries use to make beautiful stories about the history, instead of talking about what really has happend in the past.
Eric Vondeniken (not sure about spelling) explains how wrong conclusion can come from an old jar.
Well we surely cant "come with proof" by telling it to you. Get down to Africa and visit some museums, YES they do have that over there as well. When you get to these museums take the time to read/watch everything and contemplate. Yes I just wrote "read"... there are old texts to be found in these museums as well, and they are probably already translated for you into english or french since most of these African countries have french or english as official language. ( then I talk about, written tales, stories, and yes even peace treaties with other kingdoms :-o )Quote:
Originally Posted by siavoshkc
There is more then just a couple of jars down in Africa ....
I feel very sorry for you that I have to quote myself again.
Admitted, it's not a fairly cheap "come with proof" but at least you'll be convinced that there were great civilizations in the past down there. The world is bigger then you think, get out of your shell and start exploring this globe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganglylamb
Just give me that UN money, I'll buy an airplane ticket.Quote:
Admitted, it's not a fairly cheap "come with proof" but at least you'll be convinced that there were great civilizations in the past down there. The world is bigger then you think, get out of your shell and start exploring this globe.
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Anyway I think it really doesn't matter if they had advanced civilization in the very past or not.
If it doesn't matter, why did you brought up the subject?
I lived in Angola for 4 years in work, btw. And I always had a mild interest in ancient civilizations. Not Greek or Roman, but... ancient. Africa harbors a rich history that you need only to explore from text books, to understand what I am going on about. Even before your precious Persian Empire, Africa had seen already kingdoms and empires come and gone.
As for the current state of affair, it is my take the situation is mixed. We are talking about countries that for the most part have only enjoyed half a century of indepence. Of countries that were decolonized abruptly leaving the decision to who would run them to the ethnically divided societies. Of countries that were redrawn with a ruler after the 1st world war. Of countries that have to face the powerful government supported agriculture of the western countries effectively making African products more expensive in the international market, and of countries that are ruled by dictators democratically ellected. Yes... the contradiction of the late 20th century.
There is nothing wrong in Africa that we Europeans haven't brought them. Centuries after Centuries of slavery, unfair trade, resource plundering and border engineering with no regard to the continent history and its ethnical differences.
And yet, Siav, we are talking of the most rich and abundant continent in the world. Make no mistake. We are talking of the oldest continent in the world. Where human history began. So go to a good library, grab those books and marvel at the amazing history of this continent that had human beings living in cities, contrary to popular belief, way before the Persian Empire, way before Mesopotamia.
Persian Empire was not the first empire in Iran.Quote:
Even before your precious Persian Empire, Africa had seen already kingdoms and empires come and gone.
Of course Europeans have brought many bad things to many places. But you can't say all poorty of Africans is because of this.Quote:
There is nothing wrong in Africa that we Europeans haven't brought them. Centuries after Centuries of slavery, unfair trade, resource plundering and border engineering with no regard to the continent history and its ethnical differences.
Amazing history or amazing story? These nation are more older that can have any effect of their current situation.Quote:
And yet, Siav, we are talking of the most rich and abundant continent in the world. Make no mistake. We are talking of the oldest continent in the world. Where human history began. So go to a good library, grab those books and marvel at the amazing history of this continent that had human beings living in cities, contrary to popular belief, way before the Persian Empire, way before Mesopotamia.
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It is really not important that who is the oldest.
>>Real programmers memorize their hex color codes. Just kidding... hehe. But seriously, I hate Macs... this is quite fun...
Haha. I try to average it out at one per post, or two.#f1f1f1
>>[invisibility]twomers, you have some of the best ideas. :)[/invisibility]
Thank you :) Some credit goes to dwks though. Only some, but I'll get it back!!
>> When you talk about history, you should come with proof. Proof is not some old jars here.
Em, look at my response to you first!!!
>> Admitted, it's not a fairly cheap "come with proof" ...
Like GanglyLamb has been in space at least once! Even on the moon! But I think it was a fake, cause he took off his face mask!
>>Like GanglyLamb has been in space at least once! Even on the moon! But I think it was a fake, cause he took off his face mask!
Now now, actually the "you just killed me now" back then was a joke. Without anyone knowing ( this is a scoop people ) I'm an alien in human disguise, ive not been to the moon 'once' I go there every evening to have fun with my other alien friends ( of course this is on the dark side of the moon ;) ).
Really twomers you disapoint me by not trusting me, and everything was just working out fine between us :D...
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>>When you talk about history, you should come with proof. Proof is not some old jars here.
Em, look at my response to you first!!!
I don't have a proof to prove there were no kingdom in Africa. So what? They did exist? Anyway it is not important.
I spend the best part of an hour (five minutes) looking for that Far Side Cartoon where the zorgs on the Moon point out the Zorg on Earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by GanglyLamb
A good dialogue is only possible if you like chocolate cookies.
For an answer to your question check out Lionmane's post's. In general, no.