Unconditional Love

**Welshy** · 05-13-2005

Ken Fitlike: lol

I'd have to agree with Ober too, same with me and my gf, i wouldnt leave her for many things, but there are always ways relationships can break up

**Waldo2k2** · 05-13-2005

>>please let me know why

it's not incorrect, the bible just likes to contradict itself.

>>then why don't heterosexual guys love eachother

No offense but that's kind of a stupid question...I have friends that are guys that I love platonically, they've been there for me since elementary school.

I think it's safe to say that we've established that the word "love" is no longer sufficient, and that the bases have been mostly covered.

**major_small** · 05-13-2005

Originally Posted by Glirk Dient

Of course love is conditional. Look at how many divorces there are(when divorces are allowed). Of course these people loved eachother at one point(most...some may marry for moeny, other forms of personal gain).

IMO, true love is unconditional, and people should really only marry somebody that they can unconditionally love... there are other types of love too, but your love for your wife and kids should most definately be unconditional.

Originally Posted by Glirk Dient

Really, unconditional love can only exist for people that are blind to it. Why are people attracted in the first place? Good looks, good personality to name a few.

I was attracted to my girlfriend because of her personality - we were both having hard times in our lives, hitting new lows every day - we've both changed alot since then, and our love has only grown. basically, I think most people today don't really realize what true love is anymore... for example, a man or woman might think they love somebody because they can put up with them and get along with them... for example, in couples where the guy just wants action and the girl just wants a guy with a car... sure, it works now, but how long can you keep that up? can you get in a deep conversation with her and fall asleep staring into her eyes thinking about how lucky you are every night?

Originally Posted by Glirk Dient

Also...not to turn this into a homosexuality discussion, but if there was unconditional love, then why don't heterosexual guys love eachother?

1) because all the people I talk to are female, with the exception of my boss, who I don't like? 2) because you don't unconditionally love everybody - love cannot be defined as conditional or unconditional... it's an emotion - it can't really even be defined at all... it depends on too many factors that vary from person to person...

you may say you love food, but do you love food like you love your best friend? do you love your best friend like you love your wife?

if you say I can love a girl that x,y, and z's, but doesn't a, b, or c's, then you're not describing the love that you should be marrying for...

**no-one** · 05-13-2005

>
The common Christian philosophy is also that if you believe the way you should, you go to Heaven. If not, you go to Hell. If that's incorrect, please let me know why.
<

wrong, the only requirement on that is faith, and what follows is if you TRUELY believe in Jesus and God then you MUST turn from you evil, you cannot serve to masters, that dont mean you have to be perfect or anything so dont take that wrong.

and again the disbelief in unconditional love comes from the fact that people are too afraid and self centered to unconditionally commit themselves to ANYTHING muchless something as dynamic as a another person, this all stems from your inability to commit(Govt.)...

and i do unconditionally love someone... and i do mean it.

>Also...not to turn this into a homosexuality discussion, but if there was unconditional love, then why don't heterosexual guys love eachother?
<

they can, its that people are ........ing confused, Love is NOT a sexual thing, so "sexuality" is not an issue, and if you love someone it doesnt mean you gotta pork-um

im kind with major_small on what he said, and that people have forgotten what love is...

**Hunter2** · 05-13-2005

The common Christian philosophy is also that if you believe the way you should, you go to Heaven. If not, you go to Hell. If that's incorrect, please let me know why.

There are a lot of different views on the subject. One of the most plausible that I've heard is, in a nutshell: Hell is eternal separation from God; those who go to Hell choose it of their own free will.

C.S. Lewis' (fictional) novel, The Great Divorce, explains the concept much more thoroughly and satisfactorily than I can, as the full explanation involves a lot of Christian ideas that, unless you're already familiar with, can take a lot of words and examples to convey. I hope it will suffice to say, simply, that common stereotypes of the Christian faith only touch the tip of the iceberg.

>>it's not incorrect, the bible just likes to contradict itself.
Ouch, Waldo. That statement is comparable to Govt's in controversy potential, and phrased even more harshly. Again, oodles of books have been written about the subject; IMO, it has been beaten to death, and none of us can do justice to an exhaustive defense for either side in a post less than 20 screens long.

**ober** · 05-13-2005

>>and i do unconditionally love someone... and i do mean it.

Tell us who and I'm sure someone can come up with a scenario that would make you stop loving them.

**Glirk Dient** · 05-13-2005

I think people are bringing up a point that love is a very strong emotion. Sure you love your wife and your kids a great deal, but would you love your wife if she were married to another man and your kids werent yours but someone elses kids? No, you would be after your own family to love.

Love is a strong emotion so many people are desribing unconditional love as when you love someone so much that you would never leave them. When you get to that point the conditions of you stopping to love that person are only very severe conditions. What if they died, cheated on you? Dissapeared never to be seen again?

Think about this, do couples get married if they have doubts about their love? Most don't, they are pretty sure they are at a stage of unconditional love. Years down the road they end up breaking up...what happened to this unconditional love? The truth is it never existed, they only perceived it to exist and didn't want to think they would ever break up.

I also have to bring to light that everything a human does is for greed to some extent. Why do you love this person? Because you want to be with them and be loved back, so what happens when you are no longer getting anything positive back from the relationship? It makes loving them a waste of time and energy and you will end up no longer loving them. As was said before, love is a feeling. Could we also say there is unconditional happiness or anger? No, these are more basic feelings and people do not get happy and stay happy because it is unconditional, unless they OD on prozac 24/7.

**no-one** · 05-13-2005

>Tell us who and I'm sure someone can come up with a scenario that would make you stop loving them.

1. thats just stupid
2. you think i havent been through them already? and besides
3. its been tested... in reality.

**ober** · 05-13-2005

1) no it's not
2) no, I don't
3) whatever

Read the rest of this thread. Unconditional love does not exist.

**no-one** · 05-13-2005

>

1) no it's not
2) no, I don't
3) whatever
<

im sorry if reality doesnt fit with your ideals of what it is. furthermore reality is not defined by your experiences... just because you haven't experienced such a thing and your reasoning based on that limited experience doesn't conclude its possible, that does not exclude the expierence of others, the possibility of it, or the reality of it.

>Read the rest of this thread. Unconditional love does not exist.

i did, and i strongly disagree with the majority of opinions presented.

**Hunter2** · 05-13-2005

The main argument against unconditional love seems to be, in a nutshell, that if the person were not who they are, they would not be loved. As I have pointed out, there is a difference of opinions, not fact, here - whether the identity of the person is considered part of the situation in which love is unconditional (and therefore not truly a condition), or whether the identity of the person is considered to be a variable in a generic person, and if(identity == SOME_IDENTITY) love. To put the analogy in C terms:

Code:

class Person
{...};

//Conditional love:
set<Person> world;
world.insert(Person(ID_HUNTER2));
world.insert(Person(ID_NO_ONE));
for(set<Person>::iterator it = world.begin(); it != world.end(); ++it)
{
   if(it->identity == ID_HUNTER2)
      love(*it);
   else if(it->identity == ID_NO_ONE)
      sort_of_love(*it);
} 
...

OR

//Unconditional love:
Person Hunter2;
Person no_one;
unconditional_love(Hunter2);
sort_of_love(no_one);

IMO, each person is distinct, and therefore one can have unconditional love for one person but not for another. As such, I hold to the former opinion; it seems that others do not, which is also a valid worldview.

everything a human does is for greed to some extent.

This is a sweeping generalization that cannot be proven with our current science, and still excludes possibilities involving religion.

This argument is pointless, except for those who wish to repeat opinions already stated by others.

**RobR** · 05-13-2005

>>Love is NOT a sexual thing

Bzzzzt. Sorry. You lose. Wrong answer.

The emotion we call love has everything to do with procreation of the species and therefore sex.

**Glirk Dient** · 05-13-2005

Actually...name anything and it is somehow an act of greed to some extent for the person.

Really...people do things because they want results.

People help others because it makes them feel good and improves their image.

People have babies because they want to be parents.

Every act somehow benefits the person commiting the act, therefore making it an act of greed. I am not saying it is a bad thing or that every person should therefore be labeled as greedy, just saying everyone commits an act to benefit themselves, whether that act is to see a smile on someone face, by doing that it makes that person feel good and other benefits depending on the situation.

**no-one** · 05-13-2005

>
Bzzzzt. Sorry. You lose. Wrong answer.

The emotion we call love has everything to do with procreation of the species and therefore sex.
<

well.. being i dont have to have sex to love and i dont have to love to have sex, so i dont need love to procreate, and sex is fun enough that it doesnt need love to encourage the act... more than anything it prevents sex from happening... so i have to disagree... and even if i did lend to procreating it does not mean that love is based in sexuality...

>Actually...name anything and it is somehow an act of greed to some extent for the person.

definition of Greed:

An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth