# The space time continueimnms mm... (rant)

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• 06-25-2004
Govtcheez
> Do you walk at 66,000 miles per hour?

No, but the earth doesn't spin that fast, either. It revolves around the sun at that speed, but if it rotated at that speed, we'd go through almost three days in an hour.

> Geosynchronous satellites travel with a fixed point over the earth, they do not outrun it

Their actual speed is faster than the earth's rotational speed, because it's a larger radius.

> the location of the earth in orbit will be in the same place and the rotation of the earth will be such that the sun hasn't moved an inch from the pov of those on terra firma from the time when you left, yet to you a bit of time did pass, and thus, you travelled back in time.

What are you talking about? Because you take off and land from the same spot, you've time travelled? Time will pass the same (again, except for very minute relativistic differences) for you in the spaceship, and whoever's on the ground.
• 06-25-2004
DavidP
If you were travelling at the same speed the earth rotates, you would simply travel around the earth in 1 hour.
• 06-25-2004
JaWiB
>>I have imagined the possibilities since I was a young boy and have thought about so many different quite possible ways time travel might be possible. Something to ponder: if you jetted around the earth in circles at the same speed the earth spins then landed at the same point, will you have travelled through time?

Think about it....Just jump and there ya go! After all, you are already traveling along with the planet, so what are you talking about?
• 06-25-2004
LuckY
Quote:

No, but the earth doesn't spin that fast, either. It revolves around the sun at that speed, but if it rotated at that speed, we'd go through almost three days in an hour.
No, the earth does spin that fast. It does not revolve around the sun at that speed. We would not go through three days in an hour at that speed because that is the speed we travel. Or at least at the equator it does. How fast do you think it's spinning?

Quote:

Their actual speed is faster than the earth's rotational speed, because it's a larger radius.
Let's not get too anal here. My simple point is that at whatever speed they are going it is that way because they are at a fixed position over the earth.

Quote:

What are you talking about? Because you take off and land from the same spot, you've time travelled? Time will pass the same (again, except for very minute relativistic differences) for you in the spaceship, and whoever's on the ground.
Okay, I guess my little example was a bit too simplified. Assume the earth spins at the equator at 66,000 mph as I say it does and you take off and accelerate to a significant rate (let's say 100,000 mph) on the speedometer (remember you are already travelling at the same speed of the earth just by standing on it, but now you're travelling over and above that speed [by twice as much]). Again you would... Ah nevermind.

Quote:

If you were travelling at the same speed the earth rotates, you would simply travel around the earth in 1 hour.
Forget it.
• 06-25-2004
LuckY
Quote:

Originally Posted by JaWiB
Think about it....Just jump and there ya go! After all, you are already traveling along with the planet, so what are you talking about?

Yes you are, but I was talking about travelling in speed in addition to your present earth speed. It's just like driving in a car.

Look, just forget it. Nevermind. I didn't post that garbage to start an argument. I just thought a little food for thought would be fun to chew on and get the juices thinking about what might and might not be possible.

Seriously, forget about it.
• 06-25-2004
DavidP
Well here is some food for thought:

Earth's diameter: 12756 kilometers (25,000 miles)

Therefore if the earth rotated at 66,000 miles per hour it would rotate 3 times in one hour. therefore there would be light and dark 3 times in the space of 60 minutes: aka 3 days in 1 hour.

Earth moves around the sun at 67,000 mph.

Earth rotates at just over 1000 mph.

Quote:

Okay, I guess my little example was a bit too simplified. Assume the earth spins at the equator at 66,000 mph as I say it does and you take off and accelerate to a significant rate (let's say 100,000 mph) on the speedometer (remember you are already travelling at the same speed of the earth just by standing on it, but now you're travelling over and above that speed [by twice as much]). Again you would... Ah nevermind.
Ah, you caught yourself in your own words. You see, a plane does exactly that. A plane is already travelling at the 1000 mph that the earth is rotating at, and then it travels about 300 to 600 mph faster than that while in the air in order to travel.

And do planes time travel? Not any plane that I know of so far...

Don't worry, Lucky. Even though you might be wrong in this instance I still give you major props on having a beautiful asian wife :D .
[/edit]
• 06-25-2004
Govtcheez
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckY
No, the earth does spin that fast. It does not revolve around the sun at that speed. We would not go through three days in an hour at that speed because that is the speed we travel. Or at least at the equator it does. How fast do you think it's spinning?

As DP said, a little over 1000 MPH. He pretty much covered everything I was going to say.

If you're right, everyone who's ever been above Mach 1.5 or so has time-travelled. Cool!

Edit: Dammit david, you really did take everything I was going to say :mad:
• 06-25-2004
LuckY
Quote:

I still give you major props on having a beautiful asian wife
That is the most important thing :) Thanks.

If you are right about that 66,000mph thing I am very confused. That was the one thing I remember getting right and surprising my science teacher with back in 11th grade (10 years ago or so). The logic you've laid out there makes sense, but I have no idea why he told us that back then.

Anyway, forget all the numbers and all that. The very simple thing I was trying to say was that if you could build a rocket that could propel you very rapidly around the earth and arrive relatively quickly after you left you will have travelled through time. It's just another way of looking at that astronaut example. The only difference is they go straight out (not literally straight mind you) and come back instead of just going around Earth.

Quote:

If you're right, everyone who's ever been above Mach 1.5 or so has time-travelled. Cool!
Thank you. That is exactly the point I was making about astronauts (who travel much faster than that).

Besides, all you need to do is fly a plane through a special cloud and you will travel through time. Ever see that Twilight Zone? Those dinosaurs looked so real!
• 06-25-2004
JaWiB
Another thing I thought of is that (i think) there was an experiment done with two clocks, one at the top of some tower and one at the bottom, and there was a difference between them (they were very accurate clocks). Anyways, I guess that would be because at higher altitudes you would be moving faster, since the earth is rotating--either that or it had something to do with the lessened effects of gravity. Maybe someone here knows?
• 06-25-2004
Clyde
Quote:

Anyways, I guess that would be because at higher altitudes you would be moving faster, since the earth is rotating--either that or it had something to do with the lessened effects of gravity. Maybe someone here knows?
I think your former answer is correct, the clock at higher altitude travels faster so for it time travels marginally slower, than for the clock at sea level.
• 06-26-2004
vasanth
hmm no wonder people living on mountains live longer [/joke]
• 06-26-2004
bludstayne
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde
I think your former answer is correct, the clock at higher altitude travels faster so for it time travels marginally slower, than for the clock at sea level.

I seriously don't think that clocks figure time out by themselves. We set them, they increment. They don't think, they just do. We set them to increment synced to what we consider a second. That's all. Just an incrementer. No matter if you are on a mountain or 20,000 leagues under the sea, your normalized position on earth from the center is the same. 24 hours on a mountain, 24 hours under the sea.

Traveling the speed of earth? Don't you know? You are ALWAYS traveling at the speed of Earth (which I will refer to "the speed of Earth rotation" with here on). What you consider your speed is dependent on a point of reference. If you weren't traveling at any speed at all, you would be sliding on Earth's surface. Gravity forces you to move at the same speed of Earth. Now if you were to travel at the speed of Earth, with Earth as your point of reference, you'd be doing no more than just revolving around the earth at high speeds. It would still take time to travel around the earth. Earth in two dimensions has a circumpherence (sp?) of ~78540 miles. You'd have to travel at ~78540MPH to travel around the Earth in unit time. So what? It still took time to make that revolution. 1 hour. There is an asymtope, however. No matter how fast you spun around Earth, it would still take time. Nothing special would happen. The same amount of time would pass for the other people as passed for you.

If you just want to flame me, go ahead and let me ignore you. Intelligent opinions and arguments are extremely welcome. I just finished my Freshman year of High School, and I haven't had a single physical science class at all, so these are just my own thoughts.
• 06-26-2004
Clyde
Quote:

I seriously don't think that clocks figure time out by themselves. We set them, they increment. They don't think, they just do. We set them to increment synced to what we consider a second. That's all. Just an incrementer. No matter if you are on a mountain or 20,000 leagues under the sea, your normalized position on earth from the center is the same. 24 hours on a mountain, 24 hours under the sea.
Special relativity (the abbreviated version):

The faster an object travels, the slower time passes for it.

Quote:

I just finished my Freshman year of High School, and I haven't had a single physical science class at all, so these are just my own thoughts.
Learning without thought is labour lost; thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius
• 06-26-2004
bludstayne
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clyde
Special relativity (the abbreviated version):

The faster an object travels, the slower time passes for it.

Learning without thought is labour lost; thought without learning is perilous.
- Confucius

You are speaking from a different viewpoint. I believe time does not exist, that it is just a concept of our mind. Therefore I don't believe it has definable characteristics, like matter and energy which are are very real, and therefore have definable characteristics. I might see things differently when I am educated in this, and I am aware of my ignorance. Please don't turn this into an argument, although I know that it isn't one yet, it may possibly turn into one unintentionally.
• 06-26-2004
Clyde
Define time... not easily dictionary.com gives:

Quote:

A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future
Which isn't too bad, but presumeably you know what time is. You know what a clock is, and a clock can be considered to measure intervals of time. A clock that is travelling at high speed will run slower than an otherwise identical clock that is travelling at low speed.

Or to put it another way, if i blasted off into space and spent in my estimation 5 years travelling away from earth at speeds close to the speed of light, then turned round and came back at the same speed. On my return I would be 10 years older, but i would find the people i left behind were much more than 10 years older.
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