Language of choice after C++

**DavidP** · 06-10-2004

Java has WAY too many input readers, output writers, input streams, output streams, etc. I posted a list here: http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showthread.php?t=53763

Java does not allow overloading of operators. Being able to overload operators has always made things quite convenient. For example, in C++ you can simply overload the << and >> operators using ostream and istream to output or input any type of object you want. That is a heck of a lot better that using the trillion different types of readers, writers, input streams, and output streams that Java has.

Java has always been quite bulky when it comes to typecasting, and using primitive data types is always a nuisance when you want to put them into a list or tree of some sorts because you always have to create a new object. And then when you get them out of the data structure you have to typecast out of it and then get the value using something like intValue() or whatever. This specific problem is now solved with the new features being added in Java 2 1.5.0, but they should have been added a LONG time ago. C# has never had that problem.

Also, Java's String class is gimp and can do virutally nothing. There is a class (is it StringStream...or something of that nature) that is meant to give Strings more versatility, but even it does not measure up to the string class of C#, and BOTH C# and Java's string classes dont measure up to the STL string class of C++. The STL string class of C++ is the most versatile and powerful string class I have ever seen in my life.

**caroundw5h** · 06-10-2004

I said I wasn't gonna get caught up in this redundant and ridiculous verbal shove of "my language is better", but:

Originally Posted by DavidP

It is saying those kind of things that make you a bad programmer.

Hardly. Are you serious?

C++ is the future of intense perfomance applications and games. Java is the future of multiplatform applications and embedded applications. C#....who knows where that will go

I wish I had the crystal ball you have. I"d love to see the future. too. Can you tell me where the latest algorithm for optimizing the net is gonna come from? or maybe what the next best language is gonna be. I"m sure you know about the ones that are in development now. Using new programming techniques. Tell me please.

....Python? It might be used, but it aint going to ever be the flagship of anything. Sorry, bud.

what does being a flagship have anything to do with the language. You use whichever language is best for the task at hand. If you want ease of use, little learnign curve, high productivity. Python is the way to go. I don't think Eric raymond said python was his favorite language for sh**s and giggles. You might also wanna check out who uses python.

sang-drax yeah, python is object oriented: check out some random code

DavidP. honestly, this argument is redundant. I can't imagine how many times it blazes across boards on the net. If you want more info about the relevance of python, do a search
, ask NASA, check out the popular file sharing tool that corporations are trying to cash in on now, you might have heard of it its called bittorent. Or better yet, if you wanna know about python just ask google
they'll tell you exactly how relevant python is. And while your at it read this little article.

as to how old i am. Check my profile. and WTF about that quote: jack of all trades master of none?? whats the relevance.

[???]no offence but anyone who l lists herbert schildt amoung s/he's recommended reads. I wouldn't take language advice from. sorry[/???]

**DavidP** · 06-10-2004

I wasnt saying Python is a bad language. I wasnt saying it is not used in the professional world. I was simply countering your immature remark of:

PYTHON OWNS!!!!
PYTHON IS THE FUTURE!!!!

Because your remark has about 0% truth in it.

**caroundw5h** · 06-10-2004

Originally Posted by DavidP

I wasnt saying Python is a bad language. I wasnt saying it is not used in the professional world. I was simply countering your immature remark of:

PYTHON OWNS!!!!
PYTHON IS THE FUTURE!!!!

Because your remark has about 0% truth in it.

dude you need to lighten up or get out more. notice the smilies in that post??

as for remarks having truth, how can you talk of truth and then not give me scientific evidence of your quote

C++ is the future of intense perfomance applications and games. Java is the future of multiplatform applications and embedded applications. C#....who knows where that will go

I"m kidding. That too is a joke. heres the smilies to prove it.

and the last one

**Zach L.** · 06-10-2004

If you all step back a minute, maybe you'll see just how ridiculous this argument is getting. It is quite good entertainment, I must say.

**gandalf_bar** · 06-10-2004

Thank guyz..... you are very helping......
My mind changes now.......

**loopy** · 06-10-2004

I'm learning C, I have a ways to go yet. : )

**jverkoey** · 06-10-2004

we should start a new board here at cboard classified as "completely useless flamewars" and use it as a museum of entertainment so we can see all of the people's simple questions that got turned in to flame wars

I've gotta say I agree with Zach here. Let's look back at the original question, which was basically "which other language should I learn?"

I'd have to say you should learn whatever suits you best. Like many people have already pointed out, there's pros and cons to each language, so it's really just a matter of what you'll use it for. I personally know C/C++ very well, but I've also taken a class on Java so I at least partially understand it. I've found that just like with spoken languages, once you learn a second language, other languages become much simpler to learn because most follow the same rules.

So in other words, if you need to learn C#, learn C#! and same goes with Java or Python or whatever else!

If you don't need to learn anything else, I'd suggest learning either Java or C#, as both of them are being used more and more nowadays (i'm pretty sure at least...check me if i'm wrong). So i'd suggest going with one of those two languages as a secondary.

-Good luck!

-The opinions above may or may not be correct, so if any of them don't agree with yours, I'm sorry in advance (to prevent any further flaming)

**Mister C** · 06-10-2004

we should start a new board here at cboard classified as "completely useless flamewars" and use it as a museum of entertainment so we can see all of the people's simple questions that got turned in to flame wars I've gotta say I agree with Zach here. Let's look back at the original question, which was basically "which other language should I learn?"

I'd have to say you should learn whatever suits you best. Like many people have already pointed out, there's pros and cons to each language, so it's really just a matter of what you'll use it for. I personally know C/C++ very well, but I've also taken a class on Java so I at least partially understand it. I've found that just like with spoken languages, once you learn a second language, other languages become much simpler to learn because most follow the same rules.

So in other words, if you need to learn C#, learn C#! and same goes with Java or Python or whatever else!

If you don't need to learn anything else, I'd suggest learning either Java or C#, as both of them are being used more and more nowadays (i'm pretty sure at least...check me if i'm wrong). So i'd suggest going with one of those two languages as a secondary.

-Good luck!

Very well said...jverkoey

I usually here this question many times in a semester.

Also, some of you are very misinformed about some of the languages mentioned in this post. Do research!!

**Prelude** · 06-11-2004

Wow, this thread took at decidedly nasty turn while I was away...

**sand_man** · 06-11-2004

i only just read it.
funny isnt it?

**Sang-drax** · 06-11-2004

Originally Posted by DavidP

Java has WAY too many input readers, [...]

Java does not allow overloading of operators. [...]

Java has always been quite bulky when it comes to typecasting, [...]

Also, Java's String class is gimp and can do virutally nothing. [...]

OK, that sounds like reasonable points to prefer C# over Java.
The string class you're looking for is called StringBuffer.

These are the things I really miss in C++:

A larger and useful standard library (sockets etc.) C++ is virtually useless by itself.
Package support: #ifndef is waaay too ancient. We need real package suppo

C++ also has the disadvantage that it is a very large language with many features and is thus hard to master. (template metaprogramming, multiple inheritance).

**DavidP** · 06-11-2004

>Package support: #ifndef is waaay too ancient. We need real package suppo

Agreed, but it's much too late to add something like that to the C++ language. The current usage of namespaces and #ifndef's will have to do for C++.

>The string class you're looking for is called StringBuffer.

Thanks. Couldnt remember the name and was in kind of a hurry so I didnt look it up.

**Prelude** · 06-12-2004

>A larger and useful standard library (sockets etc.) C++ is virtually useless by itself.
A great deal of the complexity of a language stems from the libraries it supports natively. The core Java language is small and simple. Even a non-programmer can learn the whole of it in a short amount of time. But even expert Java developers usually don't know the whole of the standard library. That's one reason why the C++ library (as large as it is) is relatively sparse compared to the Java classes.

But the primary reason is that it's difficult to write generic, portable standard libraries for a language that doesn't provide its own virtual machine. If you've written sockets on Unix and Windows then you'll recognize the subtle differences. Now what about Mac? Or any number of other platforms that support C++? It's easier to simply allow third parties to create those libraries and have the developer choose between them.

But I agree with you to an extent. There should be a standard interface convention that those libraries adhere to so that they're easier to pick up and use quickly. Perhaps committee sanctioned libraries that aren't a part of the standard, but recommended by it...

>Package support: #ifndef is waaay too ancient. We need real package suppo
Yes! Phase out the preprocessor completely and be done with it.

But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Any sensible proposals would be met with screams of rage from the unwashed masses.