Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe this.
Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe this.
Do not make direct eye contact with me.
I saw the video.
Kind of makes you question what we're doing in Iraq.
The united states cannot ever win this type of war either.
I suppose this is expected retaliation for our actions. I'm not saying I approve of either actions but.....
I'm not accusing him of knowingly allowing the tortures, but I would like to take this oppertunity to thank dear President Bush for this pointless war. I really feel that my tax dollars are being put to good use.
I think it's the government's job to protect the people.
With that said, our military could've been put to better use elsewhere.
Is anyone else afraid of the idea of being alienated from the United Nations? I've always thought that was one of the few good things out there, just some sort of collective working together between countries.
>>The united states cannot ever win this type of war either.
It's too bad really...I can't see any good resolution to this. We can't really just pull out without stopping or at least significantly slowing the violence (well we could, but it wouldn't look very good if we just gave up), but at the same time I don't see any way for the violence to stop. The people over there see us killing and even abusing their people and then they take revenge. Of course if we do nothing when something like that happens the cycle just repeats itself. Hmm, isn't that sort of how things have been happening in the middle east for all these years?
"Think not but that I know these things; or think
I know them not: not therefore am I short
Of knowing what I ought."
-John Milton, Paradise Regained (1671)
"Work hard and it might happen."
And what do you suppose we do? Do you say we just leave Iraq like it is. Have the whole world look at us like idiots. Bush had a reason to go to Iraq. Even if their is no "weapons of mass destruction" Isn't the world better off without Sadam in office. He helped terrorist all the time. Would you want a 1st world country not help you because, "it is a lost cause" I would be infuriated. That is why we are America we protect. We can win this war it isn't impossible the left-winged media just makes it seem that way. I don't like people dying, but I don't want something like 9/11 happen again.
>>It's too bad really...I can't see any good resolution to this
one possible resolution is that our "boys" should be able to use any means necessary to win this war, and not to worry about "media scandals" and such. This includes killing anyone who might be a suspected enemy. Now it seems that our military is scared of what the media will make of any of their actions. I really don't care about the treatment of Iraqi prisoners either...put yourself in the positions of those soldiers...if you saw your buddy's head exploded from enemy fire, you would do the same if put in that position. "But thatís not ethical", "you're a mean and heartless bastard axon" - I know what you're thinking but I know for a fact that 99% of us if put in that situation would behave the same. ITS WAR FOR CRYING OUTLOUD!!
Sure I know that these statements might seem cruel, and many of you more liberally minded folks will jump to my throat for it...but this is war, and not a freagin movie or book. Also some of you know that in the beginning I was strongly for the war, now my views changed a bit - but I still think that we cannot just leave right now and leave that region as is. Too much was done already, and a fast, "media acceptable", resolution is out of the question. I propose that all of us - believers, atheists, and agnostics, pray for the fast and safe return of our military personnel.
some entropy with that sink? entropysink.com
there are two cardinal sins from which all others spring: Impatience and Laziness. - franz kafka
Would you take a picture of yourself robbing a house? Or mugging someone?
Look at the pictures. See the people standing round as if this is normal?
This is a military prison and what these soldiers are doing is illegal. Yet no one stopped them photographing and videoing it. The officers did not stop them or stop the pictures.
Because they did not think it was wrong and because they were ORDERED to do this.
That says this is SOP in all US military prisons.
Before you complain about the one US killed, ask about the 50 Iraqis civilians killed while in US prisons, including the two confirmed cases of murder.
Heard of them? If not, WHY?
Note the rhetoric and language used in the article.
“It shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom. They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children. We will pursue those who are responsible and bring them to justice.” White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan.
“I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn’t want it to become public,” Michael Berg said.
Preferable to three years in Guantanamo Bay, held without charge, while tortured and abused?
Preferable to being an innocent bystander caught in the explosion when the US / Israel assassinate its enemies?
>>I'm not accusing him of knowingly allowing the tortures, but I would like to take this oppertunity to thank dear President Bush for this pointless war.<<
Rumsfelt knew since January but did nothing.
The point was to ensure US oil supplies and ensure all the Arab states know what will happen if they step out of line.
A bonus was that now the ‘terrorists’ would now have good targets that were military (not civilian) and located off US soil. That is no repeat of S11.
Saudi Arabia allowed US military in to protect them against Iraq in 1990. The Saudis paid the US billions, bankrupting the nation, for this protection. The US has no mandate to stay in Saudi, but used the presence of Sadam in Iraq as an excuse. GWB’s support Sharon (and his ‘peace’ plan) was the last straw in a long line of betrayals by the US and the US military was asked to leave Saudi. Similar to King Fassal shutting off the oil to the US (and the US military) during Vietnam because the US supplied Israel will more arms when it seemed Israel would loose the fourth Arab war.
That’s when Sadam suddenly became a problem again.
"Man alone suffers so excruciatingly in the world that he was compelled to invent laughter."
"I spent a lot of my money on booze, birds and fast cars......the rest I squandered."
"If you are going through hell....keep going."
linuxdude, the thing is that large scale killing (like 9/11) are not all that infrequent. Most of them are not nearly as widely publicized, and many happen over the course of a couple months or a couple years instead of a single day, but nevertheless, they happen. Some of the "terrorists" in these situations, we support, others are enemies. To say, "That is why we are America, we protect," is foolish. We protect our interests. I'm not saying we should not protect our interests -- we would be foolish not to -- but it is very difficult to justify many of our actions as protecting others. On the humanitarian side, the US is certainly no saint.
>> I know what you're thinking
Uh huh... Sure...
>> I still think that we cannot just leave right now and leave that region as is.
Very true. We have committed ourselves to bringing some sort of stability to Iraq. If we left now, it would be a complete disaster. But it doesn't look too good right now; reeks of poor plnning.
Last edited by Zach L.; 05-11-2004 at 10:03 PM.
just saw the video. can you imagine how much that hurts when someone takes a dull blade and takes 30 seconds to fully saw off your head while your screaming in agony? to see americans suffer like this really ........es me off. and this is only when they went public about it. apparently this is revenge for all the 'abuse' we put those poor iraqi terrorists through. This guy died in vain.
i can't believe axon your such a jerk bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla geneva bla bla bla hippy democrat bla"But thatís not ethical", "you're a mean and heartless bastard axon" - I know what you're thinking but I know for a fact that 99% of us if put in that situation would behave the same. ITS WAR FOR CRYING OUTLOUD!!
If anybody wants to see the full video, head over to Ogrish.com
Be warned though, it's not a pleasant sight.
you can see the guy sitting there cowering in fear while the dumbass reads off his stupid proof-read arabic essay. the guy knew he was going to die. just watching the guy lay there in the beginning in fear makes me think about how this relates to an unorginized skirmish like vietnam. There hasn't been a real war since world war II if you think about it. Now adays if an actual nation rather than little pigs hiding in caves were to threaten our country, we'd blow the <Mod edit> out of them with nuclear warheads. In real wars, nobody gets beheaded. just pounded with immense radiation.
I wonder if this post made any sense...
thanks for that... I've been looking for a while... not exactly the full video, but it has all the major... um... plot points?
this war is completely and utterly useless...
first, it's not a war, and second, if it was, what would you consider winning? ousting current leadership and taking control? wait... we already did that...Originally Posted by Axon
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