Well... it looks like... war ?Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe this.
I know it's highly unamerican and unpatriotic to say that "war is hell" ( bad american this Mr. Sherman ), but it seems to be true.
Well... it looks like... war ?Barbaric doesn't even begin to describe this.
I know it's highly unamerican and unpatriotic to say that "war is hell" ( bad american this Mr. Sherman ), but it seems to be true.
hth
-nv
She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."
When in doubt, read the FAQ.
Then ask a smart question.
Appeasement never works. Ask France.
Where are these terrorist websites I always hear about? I've yet to actually come across one
"When I die I want to pass peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."
ok, besides that, what kind of problems would lay in such a solution? there aren't any.Originally Posted by major_small
Didn't we try for about 12 years to stop Saddam politically? And when Clinton sent those bombs over to the middle east, did we complain? I'm just curious about that. I mean, if we tried to stop Saddam for 12 years, with no success it seems to me like military action is the only way.
"When I die I want to pass peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather did, not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car."
WTF's wrong eith these people... Chopping the head is in no way going to solve theri problems...
Quoted from FD: (hope you don't mind DK!)Maybe the media should start telling the truth.when i frist got word from cnn about this i felt bad for the guy.
then my good buddy, npr told me some more details and i no longer feel bad for him. npr told me that he was a small business owner over in iraq of his own "free will" (i.e. he decided to go over there to try to find a job he can do). the iraqui interim gov't found him and told he to leave, as it would be in his best interests. american troops found him and told him to go home, as it was too dangerous for him to be out there. guess what - he didn't.
i'm sorry, perhaps i am a jaded heartless [edit], but you have got to be some special kind of stupid to be in a war zone and expect sympathy.
i feel bad for his family b/c they have to deal with this b/c he made stupid decisions.
Characterizing him as a small business owner looking for work is a bit disingenuous according to the New York Times.
From the article linked below, this quote:
Second, the media did "tell the truth", if by truth you mean that he was warned to leave Iraq.Friends and family of Berg said he was a ``free spirit'' who wanted to help others -- working in Ghana, in one example -- and that his going to Iraq fit with that ideology.
It's somewhat unclear what the timeline of his stay in Iraq was, and to what extent his motivations were mercenary or altruistic, but the media did a fairly full job of reporting on the story at least from the aspect of what Berg was told.
oh man, first link doesn't work, second one you need to register to read
linky-poo to the us warnings to get out of iraq (i haven't read it)
DrakkenKorin
Get off my Intarweb!!!!
Ok, first of all, I think this is an important topic, and I haven't replied yet...so this may be a bit long, sorry.
(post by post...)
axon:
There's a reason that you don't do it, and it's taught to every soilder. The reason the anti-torture rules and Genovena convention rules are in place (and the reason we follow them) is to avoid retaliation in kind. I realize that we aren't fighting an enemy that is going to follow them 100%, but the more ammunition we give them the more they will retailate and the easier time they will have recruiting more people to attack us.you saw your buddy's head exploded from enemy fire....ITS WAR FOR CRYING OUTLOUD!!
While I agree with you that we can't leave now that we're in, that doesn't mean use any means nessicary to maintain peace. After we leave, if the new Iraqi government, Iraqi people, and the rest of the Arab world is ........ed off at us because of our tactices, we are in trouble. We cannot afford to have instability in the Middle East, or have them dislike us that much. Not only does it breed terrorism, but it also threatens our oil supply (Insert eviromental arguement here).
Novacain -
I'm not totally convinced we knew about the torture, and I certainly don't think that the war was a good idea. However, prior to the war, Saddam was a threat to the area. I'm not saying that the current situation is preferable, but I think some of the bases were warrented. Of course, it was Saudi's land, if they wanted us gone, we should have left.
From Zach L.'s post -
I absolutely agree. The biggest arguement I hear now from those in the US who support the war is that we had to protect them from Saddam (whoops no more WMDs...). To be frank, I think that arguement is bull. I agree Saddam was a terrable dictator, but there are a lot of terrible dictators out there. The US is not the world's police. The entire world is made of different cultures and beliefs, and it is not the US's place to say who is wrong and who needs to leave power. Moreover, we can't afford to enforce it. War ain't cheap, and I'm not just talking about money or the lives of soilders. The negative PR (to put it lightly) from ignoring the rest of the world and getting people mad at us is going to hurt or global trade and going to increase terrorism.To say, "That is why we are America, we protect," is foolish. We protect our interests. I'm not saying we should not protect our interests -- we would be foolish not to -- but it is very difficult to justify many of our actions as protecting others. .
While this is certainly true (as DavidP so eloquently detailed), the US isn't all bad either. We give out a lot of forgien aid, (See the http://www.usaid.gov/]US Agency for ...al Development).On the humanitarian side, the US is certainly no saint
I'm not going to really drone on much longer...but for many of the arguements that I've already made, plus the enviromental ones (you can call me an educated hippie if you must...) nuking ain't an option....
Anyway, there are some of my broad views....feel free to pick them apart if you wish.
I'm pretty sure I'm not registered with the NY Times and both of the links work fine for me. Here are the URLs:
first link: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nati...ed-Victim.html
second link: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/inte...l/AP-Iraq.html
Also, these are actually AP articles, rather than articles written by Times reporters, so the text introducing the link should read "According to the AP" rather than "according to the New York Times". Sorry for confusing the sources.
No, I'm pretty sure you are registered with NY Times. I get a screen telling me to register.
echo ober.
DrakkenKorin
Get off my Intarweb!!!!
Well I'll be darned. I sure don't remember registering. I have to finish some work, but later on I'll find those articles from another source.
