Future of European/U.S. Based Programming

**Zach L.** · 08-05-2003

Originally posted by mart_man00
So America never actually did anythign with technology/computers?
We dont buy alot of there crap?
We dont have alot of the infrastructure here?
All the best programmers in the entire come from places other than here?
Microsoft isnt a old and successful business?
People often pay 100s of dollars for things they can get free?
Companies dont need to a make profit to pay their employees?

Now i want to watch Candian Bacon.....

You really have a flare for the dramatic.

Yes, there are a lot of IT jobs in the US right now. No, not all IT jobs are in America. Yes, India has many very capable software-developers/hardware-developers/etc. No, not all good software-developers/etc are from outside the US. No, not every developer in India that is highly skillled wants to move to the US.

Your taking things out of context.

**mart_man00** · 08-05-2003

You really have a flare for the dramatic

Not really.

This board with these people tend to make me not really care. If there going to take the crack head/liberal (there no real difference, but the crack heads will actuall explain) side and not listen to anything ill just bug them anyway. they always freak out more than i do.

Yes, there are a lot of IT jobs in the US right now. No, not all IT jobs are in America. Yes, India has many very capable software-developers/hardware-developers/etc. No, not all good software-developers/etc are from outside the US. No, not every developer in India that is highly skillled wants to move to the US.

Thats basicly what i ment. There not all bad but not exactly best in the world yet.

There teaching style seems to be alot of better. There go alot more in depth, problem seems to be that there not learning much(that 'master hacker' over there seems to be doing the teaching).

In the US alot of people started it for fun. They got good at there hobby that eventually turned into a business. When you like your job you do it better. I guess there guys think of it as a job.

We have alot of people like that too, but were alittle more established for this kind of stuff.

I know a family from India, its not a bad country but its fruity at times. But then again they came here like 15 years ago....

I wonder why the jobs dont goto a place like Japan. There good at electronics and (i think) beating us so far for supercomputers/clusters.

**novacain** · 08-05-2003

>> How many of the Idian guys are qualified enough to turn on a computer by themseleves without wearing a helmet? We probally lost the VB stuff(hey, it was useless from the start) but we will get the serious stuff back eventually.<<

You sir, are a racist idiot.

In future please ensure your brain is in gear _before_ engaging your mouth.

It was an Indian who 'invented' the zero. Computers would not be the same without them.

Ever used hotmail?

**Perspective** · 08-05-2003

>> It was an Indian who 'invented' the zero.

Indians also 'invented' Pi, and were the first to use a 10 based counting scale.

mart_man00, being racist and prejudice will get you no where in life. Im not sure who origionated this quote but... "get off my internet"

**mart_man00** · 08-05-2003

mart_man00, being racist and prejudice will get you no where in life.

This always seems to come up.

Aperently you have to kiss every groups ass, nice to know.

In case your acually serious and not just being a ass, what dont you like from "How many of the Idian guys are qualified enough to turn on a computer by themseleves without wearing a helmet? We probally lost the VB stuff(hey, it was useless from the start) but we will get the serious stuff back eventually".

VB is the best way to make a kernel/interface with hardware at a low level? Companies still use assembly/asm in quick moving production environments?

If its so much quicker/cheaper there im just assuming they are using some kind of RAD tools, not exactly the 'serious stuff'.

If you mean the "How many of the Idian guys are qualified enough to turn on a computer by themseleves without wearing a helmet?" part, have you been on tech support recently. Most of tech are like that in every country, whats the big deal with mentioning it here? Would you be complaing if i said that about US techs?

Lighten up and interpret things people.

**novacain** · 08-06-2003

>>This always seems to come up.

Because your racist attitude to others keeps coming up.
Perhaps you should take steps to rectify the problem.

>>Aperently you have to kiss every groups ass, nice to know.

No. You just have to show others the respect you expect to receive. No more, no less.

You believe, without rational or logical reason, that people with different lifestyles or ideals to you are not as intelligent or capable.

This is racist.

Hopefully you will mature and learn some tolerance to those that are different to you.

But there is no cure (or limit it seems) for your stupidity..............

EDIT::

India has thousands of years more culture than both our countries combined.
It is a varied an beautiful place filled with friendly people (thats the way I was treated there).
Agra (Taj Mahal) and Kashmir are amazing places you should see.

**vasanth** · 08-06-2003

Originally posted by mart_man00
To put it bluntly, who comes up with everything(most of the time)?

How many of the Idian guys are qualified enough to turn on a computer by themseleves without wearing a helmet? We probally lost the VB stuff(hey, it was useless from the start) but we will get the serious stuff back eventually.

Eventual some new arch will come out and all the VBs will be wondering why nothing works. I havnt heard of many coding masters over there or anywhere. The ones they have are either to scattered to work or will just come here any way(would you want to be a country that cant code? thats almost like bing in canada!!! canada!!! )

Plus open source is alittle to blame too. Free software == no proffits. Its good for us but its also bad for business.

Thats the one reason i like Gates, he made this stuff a real business. Later he completelty screwed it but he help to come up with it.

Thanks for the comments. I value your thought: D

People like you make us work harder to prove ourselves

I agree that we too have dumb people (like me) here in India. But the same time we have some of the best minds.. Like some one here pointed out.. Hotmail was started by an Indian (1st web based mail service) and sold it to Microsoft for millions; it is an Indian who is called the father of Pentium Chips (Vinod Dham)... It is the Indians in Texas Instruments who churn out some of the latest technologies; it is the Indians involved in MS next generation OS research,

AND It is the Indians who work in Indian call centres who answer most of your dumb computer questions (because most of your call centres have moved to India)...

But anyway i value your comments... I admire your country greatly because we Indians perceive it as a land of opportunity, a land where dreams can be turned into reality. I admire some of your companies which have a world class thinking, i admire your countrymen’s passion in building a nation. I do understand how it feels for a national when some one from outside starts taking away his jobs. I think in another few years (10 or 20) the global economy and business structures would have matured enough where geographic boundary would not make a difference...

Good day sir...

**adrianxw** · 08-07-2003

http://www.silicon.com/news/500029-500001/1/5297.html

**goran** · 08-07-2003

whoa ! this is about outsourcing. Anyway, I have interacted with a few Indian kids during the course of some of my projects. I mention kids because all of them were in their early 20's already armed with excellent education qualifications. I observed that they can grasp things much faster than veterans. I'm not saying that kids from other countries are dumb but it's just that these folks are better. Probably, with some experience they'll pick up.

**Brian** · 08-07-2003

What many people fail to realise is that it is possible for big corporations to make lots of money out of free software.

Free software is good, and I hope it is here to stay.

**unanimous** · 08-07-2003

Well why not have a little India (vasanth) vs US (mart_man00 i assume is US) fight to the death, or maybe see who is the better programmer. You could both do one of Prelude's Almost Daily Challenges and see who gets the high score. I for one am going for vasanth on this one, even if not for his talent he is more respectful twords people.

**ZerOrDie** · 08-07-2003

How many of the Idian guys are qualified enough to turn on a computer by themseleves without wearing a helmet?

well i did not take this as a racist comment but more as a comment on the current indian society where there is still a lot of poverty(how many indians have access to computers and the internet on a per capita basis?)... or maybe i just read too deeply into things?

granted it was hard as hell to make any sense in the above... where do helmets fit in the picture?

**vasanth** · 08-07-2003

Originally posted by ZerOrDie
well i did not take this as a racist comment but more as a comment on the current indian society where there is still a lot of poverty(how many indians have access to computers and the internet on a per capita basis?)... or maybe i just read too deeply into things?

granted it was hard as hell to make any sense in the above... where do helmets fit in the picture?

"India represents a significant market for Internet services, with Internet user growth per capita expected to rocket 461% during the period 2000-2005, according to Computer Industry Almanac, Inc. During the same period, computers per capita in India will grow at a rate twice that of the Asia-Pacific region as a whole. India also has the world's third largest pool of scientific and technical personnel, an important driver for the expansion of Internet usage within the country. Cities in India such as Bangalore, Mumbai (formerly Bombay) and Hyderabad represent major concentrations of world-class high technology companies, which are heavy consumers of Internet services. "

from http://www.speedera.com/newsroom/pre...es/051401.html

We even have schemes where computers are installed in the remote villages so that poor farmers can get access to price of comodaties they sell to the market, rain forecast etc etc and it is completely free... We even have our own version of your PDA called Simputer which is distributed to farmers and villagers. And it is not just IT for the sake of IT.. It has shown promising results such as transperancy in administration etc

Now our post mans in remote villages carry mobile phones so that villagers in remote areas can contact the outside world for as little as Rs 2 (4 US Cents)...

Everything is not right here.. But we are moving towards what we call a bright future...

**mart_man00** · 08-07-2003

I guess im late now, o well. Ive been having some installation problems(Gentoo 1.4)....

novacain, wow. I wasnt expecting anyone to actually answer this or not to go out of there way to be a jerk about it.

>>You believe, without rational or logical reason, that people with different lifestyles or ideals to you are not as intelligent or capable.
Well, if there living in a pile of dirt, never seen civilization(i mean modern stuff) then yes, i think most people are superior. That doesnt mean India is inferor, but weve been doing this longer. Like i said before im expecting us to have more hard coders(assembly,c) and other countries like India to be using rads(vb comes to mind). Im not talking personaly here. Im sure there capable, but you need more than that.

>>India has thousands of years more culture than both our countries combined.
Who cares? Culture talk always ends up with people being snobs. Plus I love how there is no American culture.

Now Im remined of the scene in Candain bacon were they talk about the Canadian Culture(thats thrown in since i was just there)....

>>It is a varied an beautiful place filled with friendly people
I live right by a family of them, yeah there normally nice. Some of there old school women are a bit nuts but generaly nice people.

Brian, Redhat makes money off services. Tech support and training(installation? hardware?). Some developers wouldnt get any money with some deal like that(games). Open source is great and does have a place, but we would be screwed if every thing was like that.

Imstead of Linux wiping out MS id like to see MS realize they cant win and get on the Linux side.

unanimous, how about we both kill you instead.

ZerOrDie, i was just poking fun of techs with the helmets part. It kind of a insider joke but i figured you guys would get it. Alot of tech fall into that group. But I am starting to see some better ones, whish is nice.

And thanks for taking the good side when it was ify and not being a jackass about it.

vasanth, that is kind of kool. Id like to keep the jobs in the US since i live hear but i do hope you guys get some help too. Your not as bad off as every one thinks, but every country could use a hand now. Instead of outsource id like to see some normal creation.

**vasanth** · 08-07-2003

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mart_man00
You believe, without rational or logical reason, that people with different lifestyles or ideals to you are not as intelligent or capable.
Well, if there living in a pile of dirt, never seen civilization(i mean modern stuff) then yes, i think most people are superior. That doesnt mean India is inferor, but weve been doing this longer. Like i said before im expecting us to have more hard coders(assembly,c) and other countries like India to be using rads(vb comes to mind). Im not talking personaly here. Im sure there capable, but you need more than that.
QUOTE]

hmmm... what i have herd seems true... Never knows much about anytin else outside their own country...

The same way the old civilization does not matter... It does not matter how long you have been doing it..