What USA lost and gain from the WAR against Iraq?

**mart_man00** · 05-13-2003

muslims i've spoken to

hmmm. i bet that was real neutral. by the way what muslims? are you one? do you live by some? where? when did you get this?

AN ATTACK ON ISLAM

if were not handing over money its an attack. if we dont all convert its a insult. nothing new.

what really has to happen is were need to stand up. we either say good by and not look back or we take control. its our money and our military. they are our threat. im not saying we should conquor the middle east (we probally could, and you could argue for it) but we havnt done alot untill bush came. while he does hold back atleast he speaks up. clinton was just a dumbass, but if he wanted a war it would of been over in a week and we would have nothing left(missle, bombs, bullets, if he talked more about his economy and how the internet had nothing to do with it a couple nukes).

the one part of all of this that i hate, if clinton we to say it would of been millions of yes sirs. but when bush says it, a man that isnt know a discrace to mankind says it it just a old republican whing.

**adrianxw** · 05-13-2003

>>>
hmmm. i bet that was real neutral. by the way what muslims? are you one? do you live by some? where? when did you get this?
<<<

Ever occur to you that in some sophisticated, open, non racist, non sectarian societies people could actually talk to each other?

Nah, thought not.

Jerk-o-meter warning - overload.

>>> if were not handing over money its an attack

Depends who you are handing the money too. Israel perhaps?

>>> if we dont all convert its a insult.

So let's convert them huh? After all, we're right, huh?

Hypocrit. Idiot.

**OneStiffRod** · 05-13-2003

>>Are you honestly trying to say that poor people are less likely to become terrorists than rich people!?

uhh, international terrorists, absolutely... there was a couple of bombings in suadi arabia just the other day but I'm fine with that -- if they are willing to kill 100 of their ppl to get 10 americans I would call the casualties acceptable -- these poor ppl don't travel outside of their own countries usually. All these poor ppl are funded by others -- and not by osama largely -- they get money from states like saddam's iraq, syria, iran, and wealthy individuals from suadi arabia and other oil wealthy mid-east ppl.

You take away their money and you take away the amount of poor ppl who will volunteer for terrorism -- after all these suicide terrorists in israel don't do it for ALLAH as they say - they do it b/c they have no hope and no money and when someone says that your family will get $25K for blowing yourself up it looks mighty appetizing -- they don't do it just for paradise -- money is wholly involved and cutting off that spiggot wherever it comes from is our NEW MANDATE... even if it means occupying that whole mid-east region.

>>How many muslims have you actually spoken to?

I've spoken to plenty here in the US but I speak to a dude who lives in Afghanistan quite regularly -- he used to live in the US and moved back after the war -- he lives in Kabul.

I also regularly keep tabs on the true Islam Media - www.kavkazcenter.com/eng - there you'll find what these jihadists are funding around the world.

>>And if it precipitates a serious attempt by the US to solve the Palestine-Israel conflict it could have a large postive effect on the anti-US feelings in the Middle East.

I think too much is made of the Palestinian-Israel conflict -- it is in everyone's interest for this to be solved -- but don't delude yourself into thinking that this put an end to the ambitions of Osama Bin Laden or the other Jihadists and their supporters around the world. The goals of Bin Laden and his supporters is to conquer the world in the name of islam - to create an islamic empire - and the ppl who give him money have the same agenda - it matters not that palestine lives in peace with israel, he simply uses it to galvenize support for himself and his real cuase.

**minesweeper** · 05-13-2003

>>hmmm. i bet that was real neutral. by the way what muslims? are you one? do you live by some? where? when did you get this?<<

What are you like? You mean to say you have never lived near any Muslims? I think maybe you should, then you might not hate them so much. I live next door to a Muslim family. Nice family. Son just finished his first year of an engineering degree and the daughter just joined the police force. I've lived with a Musilm too till last year, nice guy, used to help me with some of my maths.

**Clyde** · 05-13-2003

"uhh, international terrorists, absolutely"

To plan acts of international terrorism on the scale of 9/11 requires a great deal of organisation and certainly a great deal of resources (although having said that as technology improves the potential for groups of people without great resources to do large amounts of damage increases), BUT to carry them out doesn't necessarily require anything but conviction.

"... there was a couple of bombings in suadi arabia just the other day but I'm fine with that -- if they are willing to kill 100 of their ppl to get 10 americans I would call the casualties acceptable"

That is an appauling statement.

" All these poor ppl are funded by others -- and not by osama largely -- they get money from states like saddam's iraq"

All the reports i have seen have said there has been no real evidence showing Iraq to be involved in international terrorism.

"You take away their money and you take away the amount of poor ppl who will volunteer for terrorism"

"money is wholly involved and cutting off that spiggot wherever it comes from is our NEW MANDATE... even if it means occupying that whole mid-east region"

Wiping out the people responsible for funding is no easy task, if the US started attacking multiple Middle-Eastern countries the anti-US feelings invoked could have dire consequences:

In Iraq despite anger by many that the US was invading the public had no love for Saddam either, but what if the US were to invade a country where the people didn't hate the state in fact they were willing to give their lives to defend it, how would you take a city filled with an army of plain clothed snipers, hidden among hostile public whilst getting hit by suicide bombers, without sustaining major casualities or killing vast numbers of the local populace?

If anti-US feelings keep on increasing we could start seeing small scale suicide attacks within the US, that could lead to almost total Us enforced US-Middle-Eastern segregation.

Further more you have no guarantee new backers of terrorism will not spring up. If you invade one of these states and then try and set up a democracy, if pro-Islam anti-US sentiments are strong they will immediately elect a fundamentlist government who will then start behaving exactly the same way as the government previously removed.

.... These are not good scenarios.

"I've spoken to plenty here in the US but I speak to a dude who lives in Afghanistan quite regularly -- he used to live in the US and moved back after the war -- he lives in Kabul."

Fair enough, guess we have different experiences then.

"I think too much is made of the Palestinian-Israel conflict "

I don't think enough is made it.

"it is in everyone's interest for this to be solved "

Agreed.

"don't delude yourself into thinking that this put an end to the ambitions of Osama Bin Laden or the other Jihadists and their supporters around the world"

It will decrease anti-US feelings in the middle-East, they are the reason people like Bin Laden exist.

"The goals of Bin Laden and his supporters is to conquer the world in the name of islam - to create an islamic empire - and the ppl who give him money have the same agenda - it matters not that palestine lives in peace with israel, he simply uses it to galvenize support for himself and his real cuase."

Bin Laden went nuts because of the US military presence in Saudi Arabia, whilst these people would certainly love to see an Islamic world as far as i can see the reason they are willing to die fighting the US is because they believe their religion is under attack. How does flying a plane into a building and killing a load of civillians make an Islamic world more likely?

If its about an Islamic state why now? and why the US? and why suicide bombers?

The key to understanding these terrorists is to realise they believe that they are the good guys and that you are the bad guys.

**Clyde** · 05-13-2003

"hmmm. i bet that was real neutral. by the way what muslims? are you one? do you live by some? where? when did you get this?"

Bigoted MUCH?

**mart_man00** · 05-13-2003

Ever occur to you that in some sophisticated, open, non racist, non sectarian societies people could actually talk to each other?

yeah the middle east is like a mile away from the us, i wind up there when i get lost all the time.

Israel perhaps?

first person to actually come up with something and not whin, nice.

You mean to say you have never lived near any Muslims?

people here are mostly catholic or some form of christian. yeah im sure there plenty in the us, but theres alot of mexicans here to. dont you expect more to be by the border? i wouldnt be kind of kool actualy, but i bet most of them that come here would seem more american that arab. can any one say anything about that? muslims/arabs in the thread? hearing it from a muslim/arab would actually mean something, the rest of us are basicly speculating(except for facts).

Clyde, almost all of what you said could be used for Hitler. the nazis loved him, they would die for him, alot did die for him. when other countries got involved im sure the nazis werent happy and willing to join up. did you oppose "operation german freedom".

sure alot of germans resent us, that just becuase there ungrateful cowards.

**Clyde** · 05-13-2003

"Clyde, almost all of what you said could be used for Hitler. the nazis loved him, they would die for him, alot did die for him. when other countries got involved im sure the nazis werent happy and willing to join up. did you oppose "operation german freedom"."

What on Earth are you talking about?

**golfinguy4** · 05-13-2003

Wow, I am an American, and think this is really bad. I hope people from foreign countries realize 2 things:

1) Idiots like martman are not the majority here. They are just the most vocal, as the idiots usually are.

2) Most Americans are not happy with a lot of things that our country does. What our country does is not always supported by the people of our country. People ought to differentiate between government and people of a nation.

**Xei** · 05-13-2003

Originally posted by golfinguy4
Wow, I am an American, and think this is really bad. I hope people from foreign countries realize 2 things:

1) Idiots like martman are not the majority here. They are just the most vocal, as the idiots usually are.

2) Most Americans are not happy with a lot of things that our country does. What our country does is not always supported by the people of our country. People ought to differentiate between government and people of a nation.

manifesto · 05-13-2003

Ok, After reading various misinformed total bull$$$$ posted by mart_man00 and OneStifRod (I think his name and use of grammar/spelling alone indicate the level of intelligence this person has) I wished momentarily for some way to sever these kind of people from society until it occured to me they are probably posting from a computer in some prison or other federal institution. As for Clyde and Novocaine I agreed with most of what you had to say. I wish to add a couple things mainly directed at the two idiots forementioned and anyone who can sniff enough glue to view the world in the same way as them. The revised American form of Imperialism is one they are using by installing puppet governments in various states and plucking their strings to do things that are economically beneficial to America, regardless of the consequences it may have for their neighbours in the world. They attempt to mask this all the time, using excuses such as : we have sent troops in for "Peacekeeping reasons" to set up a new government that acts in the best interests of the people. Bull$$$$, unless they mean the american people by those they wish to help. What they really mean is : Hi, we're here to strip your land of its resources so we can make a buck! If you speak out against this, we'll crush you with our "Peace keeping force". MartManoo is an idiot, he believes American power is supreme, that it will conquer all. Can he not heed the lessons of history? No empire that attempted to impose its wishes on those of another people has ever survived. In this process you make too many enemies and not enough friends, somewhat like America does today by trying to make three or four powerful friends and telling everyone else to ........ off. The other problem many Americans (not all, just most) seem to have is that they are very poorly informed when speaking globally. They actually believe the nonsense their government feeds them. Americans have such an active role in the globe they should have an idea what the decisions they make do to people elsewhere. The world will not forever do nothing in the face of American belligerence, and it already has and will just continue to take a stance against. It is only so long people can put up with their superficial "America's Burden".

And another thing, what is America doing for all the other suffering people in the world? People in chechnya, africa, or east europe? If your American take a close look at how your country acts and really consider whether the United States is at blame for many of the worlds problems.

Manifesto · 05-13-2003

One more thing, with this kind of American arrogance and hostility how can you blame others for hating them?

America should revert to the foreign policy of Theodore Roosevelt, that is he said "Walk softly and carry a big stick". This means have the power to push your weight if necessary but dont just go treading heavily everywhere, ........ing everyone off.

**OneStiffRod** · 05-13-2003

>>If your American take a close look at how your country acts and really consider whether the United States is at blame for many of the worlds problems.

I think manifesto has done an excellent summation case for the idiot side here... I won't challenge further as it's obvious this person and others are lacking brain cells or common sense. He doesn't even have the guts to register here so it's no use... sum ppl are just stupid. --

>>The world will not forever do nothing in the face of American belligerence, and it already has and will just continue to take a stance against.

Ok this is fine, i am totally fine with this, if that's how you feel you pick up your gun and ill pick up mine and we'll meet on the battlefield my friend... you obviously feel this is what it will come down to -- so let's do it F**!tard...

Ohh and I'm sure that manifesto would believe any and all info given to him by the former soviet union and the iraqi "Baghdad Bob" over anything the US says as we are constant liarz... what a dumbsh$$t...

**novacain** · 05-14-2003

Again OSR demonstrates how the US reacts to criticism.

With threats and violence.

>>What our country does is not always supported by the people of our country. People ought to differentiate between government and people of a nation.<<

“government of the people, by the people, for the people” Lincoln

You elected the government as your representative, at least you had a choice unlike many other countries. Since fewer than 50% of eligible US voters actually vote, under 40% in some elections, they get what they deserved.

A government of the people, bought by the corporations, for the special interests…….

mart_man00
>>i knew this was coming, i was just waiting for it.<<

The difference between a child and an adult is the ability to moderate your behavior when it is unacceptable.

mart_man00
>>money doesnt matter, but when people with no money, house that are below tents and people that have probaly never seen electricty or anything made in that last centuries try to get involved it not right.<<

A persons worth is not based on the value or age of their material possessions. (not to mention last century was only a few years ago)

Is there really such a cultural and educational desert in the US that you can not realize this?

(It is obvious that you have never experienced the world outside the US. Perhaps when you do you will learn some tolerance and gain some understanding)

**OneStiffRod** · 05-14-2003

>>(It is obvious that you have never experienced the world outside the US. Perhaps when you do you will learn some tolerance and gain some understanding)

I can't tolerate TOLERANCE

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