thnx Terrance! We use programming teams in CS2, its a really good practice i think, getting used to dealing with it.
thnx Terrance! We use programming teams in CS2, its a really good practice i think, getting used to dealing with it.
I will add some things we use as a first filter in applications or job interviews.
Strong Communication skills:
I need to tell you what problem to solve. If I sense that there might be mistakes in this communication, because of lacking skills in this area, it does not matter how good you are at your task. If I cannot tell you what to do, you are out. Typos in a written application are a big no-no. One might be a slip, several are either a problem because of lazyness or lacking skills.
In Germany we get a lot of eastern european applicants. I am sad to let them go, because they are really good coders, but I simply cannot trust their ability to grasp my explanation of their next project. If I can't be sure I'm understood, I cannot work with someone.
Personal Interest
Having learned programming is fine. A degree is fine and probably is needed to get an interview. But then, I will not take anyone who has no personal interest in programming. I have met several people, who did not own a computer and who thought of programming as their 9-5 job. In my oppinion, it's not. If you drop your keyboard at the sound of a whistle and go home, it's not what we need. I have not yet met someone with the skills we want and no interest in them, and I have not yet met someone with interest and no skills. Even if an interested person lacks the skills, it's just a matter of time until this person picks them up. If for example someone learned Java at home for fun while learning C++ at college ( or the other way round ) I feel confident s/he will learn C# very fast. On the other hand, if someone had an A in C++ in college and did nothing at home, this probably means he can do what he was taught perfectly. But as we don't have time to give him/her a three year college-like education in C#, it's not what we need. A broad education and interest in the programming field will grant you better chances than any A you can get from college or university.
Self respect, personality, knowing your limits
This goes for all interviews, regardless of job I guess. An interview is always a bit frightening, new people, new environment, questions ahead. Nevertheless, be confident. You know your skills. Don't lie, but don't be shy either. If you don't have a skill asked for, don't be defensive. If you think you can learn it, tell them. If questions pop up that you can't answer, tell them where you would look for an answer. If you show talent for finding answers, it's as good or even better than already knowing them. Looking for answers is an essential part of the job and demonstrating skill in looking for solutions is just what an interviewer wants.
If all these points apply, you have a very good chance to get the job out of 100 other people. I guess point 2 is already valid if you are reading this post
hth
-nv
She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."
When in doubt, read the FAQ.
Then ask a smart question.
real world...vs Uni
I'm working as a programmer/analyst for a year before I return to uni to finish my degree, and I've found the first thing I've had to do is forget most of the theory about software engineering I learnt at uni, cos in the real world it don't happen that way!
At uni, I've seen people who are useless at programming get very good grades cos they spent ages on documentation and commenting code....a programmer who tryed to spend a lot of time on design and quality stuff lasted less than 6 months, the fact is that most the time, when there is a rush to get a product released, all that stuff becomes less important than a program that works, may be right or wrong, but that's how it works with the company I work for.
And the OO thing is great in theory, but takes a lot of time to design, we use Delphi which is based on Object Pascal, but the products we write only use OO techniques where it's easy to implement!
I think this depends very much on the company you are working for. Design and quality take time, but I see a lot of companies taking that time into their budgets. Especially since a lot of companies have learnt that most of the development time is in testing. When the quality of the design and code are higher, it has shown that testing time is less. Also testing time for up-following projects making use of the software is less.
OO is not only great in theory, it has proven to be also great in practice. Also this depends on the company where you are working for. If you have recently decided to turn from non-object oriented to object oriented development, it takes double time. Because first you have to learn it and gain experience with it and second you have to adapt current code and designs to make it applicable in object oriented development.
It is correct when the deadline comes closer, things like carefull design and quality things seem to become less important. But that is a matter of management.
thnx for the awsome post, nvoigt, i actually learned some things from it : )
I definitely argree with your comments. That's true!Originally posted by Terrance11
Hello, I'd like to say that I'm taking a corporate c++ training course designed to help people make it out in the real world as programmers, plus I have two+ years experience in the business industry, so I have a good idea about what employers want.
"Coding skills were, at best, an incidental concern for most of those interviewed: e.g., "The least important skill [for those who join my firm] is knowing how to produce a piece of code."
You're right, they want marketers who can program in other words.
Companies look for the most confident, most secure people at any position, whether it's as a programmer, or as a CEO.
Companies are willing to teach intelligent individuals by paying for them to take training courses, or having them supervised by senior level programmers.
Did you know that technical interviews at Microsoft (for programming positions) don't consist of any technical questions at all? Instead, they ask you solve small little puzzles, that have nothing to do with programming.
They do this, because they want to know how well you think on the run, which is one of the most important aspects of being a successful programmer.
Also this article claims that most cs students coming out of college are too confident in their skills.
This is true again. My teacher has stressed time and time again that most cs students coming out of college simply don't have the experience to be good coders. A lot of cs students know how to write small algorithms that they were taught. But when it comes to full scale production in Windows programming (which is the most desired skill set in the programming industry), a lot of students have very minimal skills in that area, forcing them to learn on the job.
Also, one of the most important aspects of being a successful programmer in a business enviroment is based on how well you can code within a team.
All large projects you write in the real world will be within a team enviroment. If you're not good in working within a team structure, or you're too anti-social, you won't make it.
The real world is far different from college.
KingoftheWorld
