Thread: God

**novacain** · 11-13-2002

"Which is it: is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders?"

Friedrich Nietzsche

I can not accept that some of the bible is fact and other bits fiction. Either it is a work created by men with gods inspiration (ie without iterference of mans perceptions) or it is totaly distorted by man interpreting the words of god.

One of the things that plauged me (not counting stupid pieces of the bible like john 2:2 where because children are teasing someone for being bald, god sends a couple of bears and kills 42 of them) is the whole creation v evolution bit.

God created man in his image and all the flora and fauna at the roughly the same time, right?

So dinasaurs and dogs were made at the same time. Right?

We did not evolve into modern man as evolution would be correct and we would no longer be in gods image. How can you improve on gods divine creation? Right?

This must mean Adam and Eve looked like us (as we are both in gods image) right?

So why don't we find remains of modern man with those of primitive man? We must have coexisted.
Shouldn't there be some fosil evidence?

Or did god have to experiment with primitive man to get us in his likeness. In which case he is not omnipotent.

Have I missed something?

Going bad 5....6........7................

**TechWins** · 11-13-2002

Someone with goodness in there're will not be afraid of god even through they have never met god.

How does this have anything to do with having goodness in your heart? Goodness in your heart doesn't relate at all with not being afraid to encounter God. Explain to me how this makes any sense at all, please.

What about harming yourself?

Reread what I wrote:

An example of immorality would be to benefit yourself by harming another person, by simply just harming another person in any way shape or form, or by making an action that could potentially lead to harm of another person. Harm can really be a multitude of things in this case, such as stealing or murdering. There are of course exceptions to this rule, though.

**jdinger** · 11-13-2002

Originally posted by novacain
One of the things that plauged me (not counting stupid pieces of the bible like john 2:2 where because children are teasing someone for being bald, god sends a couple of bears and kills 42 of them) is the whole creation v evolution bit.

novacain, if you don't believe the Bible that's you're right and I'm not arguing with you but I just wanted to clarify a few things.

John 2:2 has nothing to do with bears or children. The story you're referring is in 2 Kings 2:23 and it there's a lot more to it than that. First off no one was killed. Secondly they weren't children but teenagers/young men and thirdly they weren't just picking on someone who was bald.

This happened at a time when the nation of Isreal was very rebellious and most of the prophets had been killed off by Jezebel years earlier. Elijah had just been taken up to heaven and Elisha was starting out on his own, carrying on Elijah's ministry.

A group of young men (I know the original King James uses the word "children" but the original Hebrew word used there is "yeled" which translates into young man) were mocking Elisha about both his sorrow in losing his mentor and friend and his faith in the Lord in general. They said (NIV) "Go on up, you baldhead" and continued to jeer him. The phrase "go on up" was referring to Elijah ascension to heaven, ie: "we think you're full of poop and your buddy was to. we don't want you or your kind here and if you love your God so much then go on up like your buddy did." <- my own words of course, but that's how I understand they meant it from my studies.

That particular passage of scripture hit me kind of hard when I first read it. "Ok, so they were picking on him about being baldheaded. So why does get mad and 2 bears come out of the woods to attack them?". I was confused myself. I read it and re-read it. I prayed about it for days and I researched the time period and the surrounding incidents and it made more sense.

So, why did they have to get attacked by bears? My understanding of it (not saying this is in stone, just what I believe to be the case in this situation): While God is a God of love, He will not be mocked. He had given Isreal chance after chance to turn away from their idols, etc. but they moved further and further away from Him. Elisha was one of the last people on Earth who was serving God at the time. As they were mocking Elisha they were also mocking God. His baldheaded-ness has less to do with personal preference than it had to do with being an outward sign for where he was from and what he believed.

Like I said, I'm not saying I have answers to everything in the Bible or in life at all for that matter. Just wanted to clarify that.

**Sentaku senshi** · 11-13-2002

>Morals come from what you think is either right/wrong or what the general population finds to be right/wrong. I find it to be immoral to murder someone when the justification isn't there. Justifcation for murder is protecting yourself or forcing a penalty upon someone by means of murder. An example of immorality would be to benefit yourself by harming another person, by simply just harming another person in any way shape or form, or by making an action that could potentially lead to harm of another person. Harm can really be a multitude of things in this case, such as stealing or murdering. There are of course exceptions to this rule, though. <

So why are there morals? At one point of time there had to have been no morals because as you said we inherent your morals.

>Hypothetically, what if your religion did?
God's will is writen on everyone's heart, and the majority of people would automaticly reject something that is against his will.

>Yes, but shouldn't God forgive you so as long as you were a moral and ethical person?<
I have no right to speak for God.

>We did not evolve into modern man as evolution would be correct and we would no longer be in gods image. How can you improve on gods divine creation? Right?

This must mean Adam and Eve looked like us (as we are both in gods image) right?

So why don't we find remains of modern man with those of primitive man? We must have coexisted.
Shouldn't there be some fosil evidence?

Or did god have to experiment with primitive man to get us in his likeness. In which case he is not omnipotent.

Have I missed something? <
1. Evolution is a theroy not fact.
2. Have we discoverd every fossil?

**4point5** · 11-13-2002

Christianity was created by what were basically humans a step beyond cavemen, trying to explain the things they saw around them. Why the bible is still believed and followed today is beyond me.

As far as human evolution goes, modern medecine has effectively halted it permanently. Yes, evolution may only be theory, but it has a lot more evidence and logic to suport it than any other theory on where we came from, and that is monkeys.

**Nick** · 11-13-2002

This must mean Adam and Eve looked like us (as we are both in gods image) right?

In the bible we were created in God's image. That's what
seperates us from the animals. It doesn't mean that
we look like god.

Explain to me how this makes any sense at all, please.

When Adam first sinned in the garden he was afraid of
God. This means that sin is sort of a seperation of god.
All I'm saying is if you do all that is good, when
you meet god it will be like you've known him your
entire life.

I'm not going to respond any further to this thread ok.

**PJYelton** · 11-13-2002

Okay, I want to point out that I have nothing against religions, and I think they do great things for people who would otherwise feel hopeless in the world, and everybody has a right to believe what they want. What I do have a problem with is when religions say that their religion is right and everyone else is wrong, or even worse, going to hell. Especially considering that the VAST majority of christians are christians because 1) Their family is christian 2)Their best friend took them to a church one day and they said "This is nice!" or 3) They suffered a tragedy and voila heres this religion that preaches that life isn't meaningless and greater things await them. If none of these three things apply to the posters here, then you are definately very much in the minority. If your family was Mormon, you'd be mormon almost certainly, if you lived in Thailand, you'd be Buddhist, if you were born into a backcountry tribe in the middle of the Congo, you'd be an animalist, etc etc. People in many places have no realistic chance of being a christian, despite the reports of the -one or two- people a year getting prosecuted for their beliefs.

So to say that your religion is right and everybody else is wrong considering that you are that religion by chance to me is very bad. ESPECIALLY since 99% of christians don't "shop around" when deciding their religion. How many of you have really studied other religions outside of a christian school or church setting with an open mind that "Hey, maybe this religion over here is the correct one? Maybe I should really study it and hear what they have to say." Guaranteed what little bit of studying done if any was with a "How can I shoot this down with my religion" approach.

And yet christianity EXPECTS people of other religions and cultures to look at christianity with an open mind so that they can be converted, or else suffer eternity in hell! I'm sorry, but thats extremely hypocritical!

Christianity is just one religion of many, not THE religion.

**TechWins** · 11-13-2002

Ok, I probably should post this, because all it is going to do is relight this thread up again...

So why are there morals? At one point of time there had to have been no morals because as you said we inherent your morals.

Are you trying to hint that morals came from religion or to be more specific---Christianity? Moral standards are typically apart of a religion, but that does NOT mean that the religion created those moral standards!

God's will is writen on everyone's heart, and the majority of people would automaticly reject something that is against his will.

Ok, I'm just going to leave the question alone because obviously it isn't going to be answered.

I have no right to speak for God.

I'm not saying you do, but based on your interpreation of your religion and your god, what do you think? Do you think God would be willing to forgive someone who lived a moral but did not believe in the Christian religion nor God?

1. Evolution is a theroy not fact.

The only barrier the theory of evolution has of becoming the law of evolution is religion. Many people oppose the idea of proving how man came to be, because it opposes their religion's ideas (not theories, not facts, just ideas). That's my personal take on that.

2. Have we discoverd every fossil?

By way of novacain's explanation having one fossil differe from the rest would be enough to prove the creationist theory wrong. Besides enough fossils have been found that not only give strong evidence towards the theory of evolution but also strong evidence against the theory of creationism.

Christianity was created by what were basically humans a step beyond cavemen, trying to explain the things they saw around them.

No, you're wrong. Christianity didn't start coming around until the turn of the millenium of 0. Hence it didn't arise until around the time Jesus was born.

Why the bible is still believed and followed today is beyond me.

Ritual and tradition.

In the bible we were created in God's image. That's what
seperates us from the animals. It doesn't mean that we look like god.

You misinterpreted what novacain wrote. novacain was trying to explain that adam and eve must have looked like us because they were created in God's image. Since God is flawless he would have only created humans back then the sameway he would always want them to be. The fact that there are fossils that prove that humans today do not look like humans of thousands of years ago shows a flaw in the creationism theory.

**Sentaku senshi** · 11-13-2002

>1) Their family is christian
You can't be born a christian. Second I went to church when I was younger and the younger me was no Christian, he was nothing more or less

>2)Their best friend took them to a church one day and they said "This is nice!"<

First It was a youth group
Second It was more then just nice.
Third No, people should be converted at the super market

>3) They suffered a tragedy and voila heres this religion that preaches that life isn't meaningless and greater things await them.<
Yes, I was going through a hard time in my life. I already knew the basics of the religon, and they had nothing to do with my choice.

> If your family was Mormon, you'd be mormon almost certainly, if you lived in Thailand, you'd be Buddhist, if you were born into a backcountry tribe in the middle of the Congo, you'd be an animalist, etc etc. People in many places have no realistic chance of being a christian, despite the reports of the -one or two- people a year getting prosecuted for their beliefs.<

from :http://www.worship.com/help/
There have been more Christians killed in the 20th century than in the previous nineteen centuries combined.
--U.S. House Resolution. Scripps-Howard News Service, September 28, 1996

>So to say that your religion is right and everybody else is wrong considering that you are that religion by chance to me is very bad. ESPECIALLY since 99% of christians don't "shop around" when deciding their religion. How many of you have really studied other religions outside of a christian school or church setting with an open mind that "Hey, maybe this religion over here is the correct one? Maybe I should really study it and hear what they have to say." Guaranteed what little bit of studying done if any was with a "How can I shoot this down with my religion" approach.<
Many of the worlds religions witch would have had no contact with each other often times have quite a few simularites. It is my belife that these religions were
1. Worshiping God, though he might have taken on the personaly of mutible gods/goddesses, or explained in a diffent way.
2. Based upon the belifes of the Ansestors.

I also belive that Christinity is God's way of bringing everyone back together.

>Are you trying to hint that morals came from religion or to be more specific---Christianity? Moral standards are typically apart of a religion, but that does NOT mean that the religion created those moral standards!<
The apple of good and evil.

>I'm not saying you do, but based on your interpreation of your religion and your god, what do you think? Do you think God would be willing to forgive someone who lived a moral but did not believe in the Christian religion nor God?<
It is not what you say you belive, but what is writen on your heart.

>The only barrier the theory of evolution has of becoming the law of evolution is religion. Many people oppose the idea of proving how man came to be, because it opposes their religion's ideas (not theories, not facts, just ideas). That's my personal take on that.<
No, sorry it's a bit more then religion that keeps evolution from becoming a law. Second Creation is a theory with it's evidence to back it up.
The fact that we contain the same elements as clay witch is what according to Creation we are made of.

**PJYelton** · 11-13-2002

I never said people are born christian, I said that people are almost always the religion of their families. Do you really think you would be a christian right now if your family was Buddhist, Hindu, Morman, etc? If you say yes, I don't believe you one bit. And I didn't say that you had to experience all three, just most christians fit one of those three criteria.

Second, sorry for the exageration, but when I said only a few people get killed for being christians, I was talking about in proportion to the rest of the people. 50 people killed in a country of millions is a very small percentage others stuck in that country still have no realistic change of choosing christianity over the resident religion. Of course almost all of them will be swayed by what the 5 million think over what the 50 people (who are now dead) think.

Third, I'm sorry, but the fact that we have scant amounts of chemicals that loosely can be traced back to clay, in no way prooves creation. What other evidence if any can you use to try and proove creation? Anything?? Because I could go on for days on all of the proof of evolution. The only time people can argue anything against evolution is by bringing up obscure animals out in the middle of nowhere and saying "Ha, you can't figure out why this Ixthius Maxicallicus got this nub underneath its right wing, therefore evolution is wrong!" Kinda like saying dinosaurs don't exist because we don't fully understand how blood makes it to the tips of the scales in a Stegosaurus.

BUT if you can truly tell me that you believe God holds no grudges against other religions and that people elsewhere in the world who have no realistic shot of being christian have an equal chance of being looked upon favorably in the afterlife, then I have no problems here. This is really the only bad point I have against christianity. I still wouldn't agree with it, but then thats my beliefs.

**datainjector** · 11-13-2002

I have proven alot of pastors fake...I have meet many pastors and i do attend church just for the fun of it ..Man its funny when ya c people falling down when the pastor puts his hand on there head and start praying..well the pastor did it to me ...the only hing i know that could make me fall was he pushing me with his hand on my head ....

**DarkStar** · 11-13-2002

I consider myself to be a born again Christian, holding to many of the Christian beliefs and what is written in the bible. At the same time I do not in any way try to force other people to believe as I do, everyone is entitled to their beliefs and opinions.

What is all of your opinions on this...

I have heard it said that the Sun is a type of God the Father and the Moon is a type of God the Son. The Moon appears to have the marred face of a man as Christs was marred on the cross. The Moon reflects the light of the Sun as Christ reflects the light so to speak of his Father. Twelve men ( the apostles ) left their old lives behind to follow after Christ

Twelve men left the Earth and walked on the Moon.

**Sentaku senshi** · 11-13-2002

>You misinterpreted what novacain wrote. novacain was trying to explain that adam and eve must have looked like us because they were created in God's image. Since God is flawless he would have only created humans back then the sameway he would always want them to be. The fact that there are fossils that prove that humans today do not look like humans of thousands of years ago shows a flaw in the creationism theory.<

1. God has no physical form
2a. Second the formation of man would have been a slow procidure
2b. God might have taken the shap of the animal closest to resembling him and started with that.

>I never said people are born christian, I said that people are almost always the religion of their families. Do you really think you would be a christian right now if your family was Buddhist, Hindu, Morman, etc? If you say yes, I don't believe you one bit. And I didn't say that you had to experience all three, just most christians fit one of those three criteria.<
My sister is a buddhist, another one is witchca. The last church my parents went to was a Methodist Church yet I don't consider my self a Methodist.

*Claiming to be a Christian does not make you a Christian

>Second, sorry for the exageration, but when I said only a few people get killed for being christians, I was talking about in proportion to the rest of the people. 50 people killed in a country of millions is a very small percentage others stuck in that country still have no realistic change of choosing christianity over the resident religion. Of course almost all of them will be swayed by what the 5 million think over what the 50 people (who are now dead) think.<
What makes people become a Christitians in these contries even though it means they risk death? Because normaly people tend to advoid things that are going to kill them.

>Third, I'm sorry, but the fact that we have scant amounts of chemicals that loosely can be traced back to clay, in no way prooves creation. What other evidence if any can you use to try and proove creation? Anything?? Because I could go on for days on all of the proof of evolution. The only time people can argue anything against evolution is by bringing up obscure animals out in the middle of nowhere and saying "Ha, you can't figure out why this Ixthius Maxicallicus got this nub underneath its right wing, therefore evolution is wrong!" Kinda like saying dinosaurs don't exist because we don't fully understand how blood makes it to the tips of the scales in a Stegosaurus.<

I'm in a good mood, list 10 facts and I'll see what I can do.

**jdinger** · 11-13-2002

Originally posted by datainjector
I have proven alot of pastors fake...I have meet many pastors and i do attend church just for the fun of it ..Man its funny when ya c people falling down when the pastor puts his hand on there head and start praying..well the pastor did it to me ...the only hing i know that could make me fall was he pushing me with his hand on my head ....

datainjector, there's no doubt that there are people who profess faith but don't really have it. That's biblical. Jesus warned against following such people.

Quite frankly I think that TBN (a Christian cable channel) is a load of crap. They come across as shallow and fake (sorry if that sounds judgemental, but I'm not saying they are fake, just that some of the things they've done (ie: bought and showed off a new Mercedes that they bought right after one of their fundraisers, claimed they needed the new car to get around the studio/set because it had grown to large) make them seem that way). That doesn't deter me from loving God. That doesn't stop me from living for Jesus. I just don't watch their channel.

But just because someone is fake doesn't mean that Jesus is any less than who He is. If you're basing your belief in God on how you've seen other people act then you're looking in the wrong place. People (Pastors or not) are just that: People. Jesus is the example.

oh, btw, who'd have ever thought a post on such a topic would have amassed so many replies and views in 1 day's time....

**zahid** · 11-13-2002

Again... can you remember the thread?
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/showt...light=Religion

Okay.. let’s talk about it.. I was reading and reading all the board replies.

1. Long time ago I heard two pair words: Religious-Hypocrite & Non Religions-Hypocrite.
2. One thing I found in last 27 years is that truth is beyond the question of belief.
Such as (examples are in a broad sense):
Situation A. I'm standing right in front of you; you need not to believe it, do you? You are seeing me, this is true.

Situation B. I'm standing behind the wall, you are not sure.. You are confused.. But you have some sort of evidence ... now you may or may not believe.

So.. where there is a chance of not being true.. you have a choice to (will) believe.
I smelt the word believe as dark, suspicion, confusion, lie.. Truth is even much brighter than sunshine.

Occam's Razor approach: Consider the choices and select the one that is the simplest, because simple explanation is almost always the best.

Note on Holy Books:I do believe (because I'm in dark or confused, not sure) the guys (not girls ) who wrote the books were the most brilliant of that times. But because of the evolution or ... in this 21st century, I guess there are lots of brilliants around the world to understand their ideology to make people discipline (for peaceful life). I think they did that because wanted to guide people for a peaceful life. Their motivation was positive (though they created imaginary Superman, which was a lie).

Thread: God

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Similar Threads

what race is god?

God II

GOD and religion

Foundations