Thread: God

>If he knew then he designed man badly in the first place. Oh and before you start the free will argument fails totally, because there are good people who have free will therefore God could have made Adam a good/honest person evidently he failed.<

Cyde if everyone automaticly had reverence for the Lord, than that reverence would mean nothing.

>That argument makes no sense, jesus didn't make the FIRST bread/wine God did make the FIRST rainbow therefore the laws of physics governing diffraction did not exist before that point.<

Ok where does it say God made the first rainbow? He put his Bow into the cloads as a sign, the Rainbow becames the sign of this convent.


>........ yes.... its called an eclipse but thats rather different to "making the son and the moon stand still", which is a blatent impossiblity.<

ok:
Many cultures have legends that seem to be based on this event. For example, there is a Greek myth of Apollo’s son, Phaethon, who disrupted the sun’s course for a day. Since Joshua 10 is historical, cultures on the opposite side of the world should have legends of a long night. In fact, the New Zealand Maori people have a myth about how their hero Maui slowed the sun before it rose, while the Mexican Annals of Cuauhtitlan (the history of the empire of Culhuacan and Mexico) records a night that continued for an extended time.4

also I don't think eclipse look like the extented days.

>It makes sense that the people of the time (IE. who WROTE the bible) would think the Earth did have foundations, this like all of the other examples make perfect sense given the bibles non-divine origins.<
You have proof that the Bible has non-devine orgins? People today refer to the foundations of the earth, its figuritive speech.

>Which is false: You cannot overcome the laws of physics.
You know that I was refering to personal issues.

>Right, any evidence contrary to Christianity is a conspiracy.....
I read the evidence and started laughing Cyde. I'm at school now so I don't have time to go through and diminish the site now.

>Anyway how exactly do you account for THIS:

"A donkey sees an angel, recognizes it as such, and then speaks in human language (presumably Hebrew) to his master."

And THIS:

"The Lord kills all the first-born of Egypt and there is not a house where there is not at least one dead. (This means that there was not a house in Egypt that did not include at least one first-born---a most unusual situation.)"<

Were talking about God here, and since you nor no one else was actuly around at the time you can't see it's wrong.


>"LE 11:20-21 There are winged creatures (birds or insects) that go around on all fours. (Note: There are no birds that go around on four legs, and all insects have six legs.)"<

?I'm confused my Bible does not refer to winged creatures with for legs, or insects with four legs

>That site shows some of the magnitude of the nonsense involved, the sheer scale amazes me.<
Translation errors cause a large majority of those problems.

Bye

>?I'm confused my Bible does not refer to winged creatures with for legs, or insects with four legs
Leviticus 11:20-21 (NIV)
All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground.

I, too, have looked into that quote, and it pertains to the 'unclean' animals which no-one is allowed to eat. All insects are included except for the grasshopper, locust and any other winged insect which can also hop.

I just wanted to be post 201. But I do love GOD and I do believe.

OK.

So the bible is literal in some parts, parable in others and has 'Translation errors'. No to metion where it contridicts itself or the laws of nature / physics.

So which parts are the ACTUAL word of GOD?
Which parts are exagerated and should be ignored?
Who decides which is which?
Who ultimately wrote the bible, god thru men or just a man?

Flawed imperfect man.



I get so annoyed when preachers say 'Oh that is not ment literally', or 'that is meant to be taken as a parable'. But in thier next breath tell you that the bible is historical fact and the true word of god.


In Nepal in the 80's while white water rafting with a Methodist sporting team I met the 'Crazy Baba of Singapore'. (Baba = holy man)

His faith was so strong that he cut off an inch from his left arm each year to prove his piety (and lack of need for worldly goods).

As I spoke to him I had an epiphany, a moment of clarity.

It was then I realised the awsome power of faith that drove this man to endure the pain to achive his spirituallity.

It has nothing to do with god and every thing to do with human desire for a purpose.

We are not special enough to be created by a supreme being, though sometimes I think a platapus could prove god had a sense of humor (or just wanted to use up the left overs).

So the bible is literal in some parts, parable in others and has 'Translation errors'. No to metion where it contridicts itself or the laws of nature / physics.

So which parts are the ACTUAL word of GOD?
Which parts are exagerated and should be ignored?
Who decides which is which?
Who ultimately wrote the bible, god thru men or just a man?

Flawed imperfect man.



I get so annoyed when preachers say 'Oh that is not ment literally', or 'that is meant to be taken as a parable'. But in thier next breath tell you that the bible is historical fact and the true word of god.<

According to every english Bible man is created from dirt, but in fact the bible actuly says were were formed from clay. Also there are diffent versions of the bible as they can't seem to agree on a translation, in fact my sigs quote online and that is taken word for word.

God created the laws of nature/physics he is not bound by them, he is God.

The bible was writen with devine intervention in parts that no one would no about such as the death of Moses well the rest of the first 5 books were writen by Moses and thus as he lived through the 2nd through 5th book he knew what had happend, and he also probley knew from stores handed down Abram, Lot, ect. Some parts such as the poams and such were writen by man in praise of God.

Comon sence should dictate what parts should be taken word for word, and witch parts are using figuritive language. Authers have many ways of writing and this is reflected by the Bible. God is normaly very mono tone with a few figurive praises though I've found two times that god used humor. My quote is one, and another one is in
Job 38:21 I am sure you can, because your're so old and your were there when the world was made!

I apologise for the return to the previously off-topic discussion... But i'm going to do it anyhow. Sorry I took soo long, but I've been way too busy the last couple days.

Now remember electrons aren't little balls they are unimaginable wavicles with specific properties, now one of those properties involves the accuracy you can determine (or predict) position and momentum of the electron. [...] But the maths predicts this property: The wavefunction is all the information that exists about an electron, and you can see from the wavefuntion that if you create a scenario where you know its position with 100% accuracy, its momentum simply does not exist at any given value, likewise the reverse is true.

But the de Broglie Equation is meant as a method to make sense of matter behaving strangely like light. It's only a mathematical model. This in no way indicates that electrons (and the like) dont have set properties, it merely indicates that we are unable to currently represent those properties. It would seem probably that they do, in fact, have set properties or describeable parameters that remain undetermined.

The dual wave/particle theory works acuratly, but it seems quite likely that it is only an accurate method of calculating a result, not an accurate representation of the system.

And now heres my token addition to the origional subject:

>>Comon sence should dictate what parts should be taken word for word, and witch parts are using figuritive language.

Except that common sense dictates that the bible isn't true. So common sense can't factor in for this example. Beside that, "common" sense, isn't really all that "common". What seems common to one, is often strange to another. Just look at this thread for proof.

not one of you, for or against christianity can make any valid aurguments. Almost all of the contradicting evidence against christianity is, in itself mostly beliefs. the others either don't apply or are not well thought through. one the otherside however, I have not seen any valid auguments from anyone claiming to be christians.

I was actually looking forward to replying to this thread when I first saw this thread. I read the last few pages, skipping 2-11. unfortionatly I have found nothing worthwhile to argue, either for or against.

on a side not, I do not claim vicinity for either sides. I have, for the past year, being examining what, in my opinion was scientificly valid. I have not found my answer. I was raised in a churchlike environment with my mother, and a skeptics haven with my father, with them not being able to stand each other in the past 2 months. I have seen and studied a lot of both sides. I am saying this as a challenge, if you really believe you can prove the validity of one over the other do so, as I would very much like to see it. maby it would hasten my search.



finaly, refering to to 2 things. the flying winged animal, this is a reference to the bat.
also people have claimed that evoution has been all but proven. The are wrong. We have proved the truth of evolution, no more than we have disproven the original documentation of the bible. They are both only theories. To believe in evolution takes just as much faith as beleiving in any religion.

P.S. to whoever came up with the aurgument that that the lord killed all the first-born in every house. You are thinking primitively, houses, as throughout history, especialy in egypt at that time, included not only you immediate family but also up to your second and third family. This does not also include any slaves and their families.

I look forward to your replies.