Ethical Hacking... What is it... ???

**Commander** · 10-06-2002

isn't "etical cracker" is a more appropriate term then "etical hacker"? because when u break into a computer(illegely) it's not hacking, it's cracking...just a thought

**RoD** · 10-06-2002

i believe some companies pay hackers to try to 'hack' into their comptuers and find faults, would that be ethical hack/cracking?

Of course they do, its in the underground news all the time. The united states goverment recently paid almost 2 million to hackers to try and break into the newest microsoft defense system that they were intending to use.

It was said by microsoft to be the best security software suite ever created, and almost impossible to break through.

It took a 15 year old "hacker" 2 minutes and a well known exploit from windows 3.1 to break into the new system.

**Brian** · 10-06-2002

hacker n.

[originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather than just theorizing about programming. 3. A person capable of appreciating hack value. 4. A person who is good at programming quickly. 5. An expert at a particular program, or one who frequently does work using it or on it; as in `a Unix hacker'. (Definitions 1 through 5 are correlated, and people who fit them congregate.) 6. An expert or enthusiast of any kind. One might be an astronomy hacker, for example. 7. One who enjoys the intellectual challenge of creatively overcoming or circumventing limitations. 8. [deprecated] A malicious meddler who tries to discover sensitive information by poking around. Hence `password hacker', `network hacker'. The correct term for this sense is cracker.

The term `hacker' also tends to connote membership in the global community defined by the net (see the network. For discussion of some of the basics of this culture, see the How To Become A Hacker FAQ. It also implies that the person described is seen to subscribe to some version of the hacker ethic (see hacker ethic).

It is better to be described as a hacker by others than to describe oneself that way. Hackers consider themselves something of an elite (a meritocracy based on ability), though one to which new members are gladly welcome. There is thus a certain ego satisfaction to be had in identifying yourself as a hacker (but if you claim to be one and are not, you'll quickly be labeled bogus). See also geek, wannabee.

This term seems to have been first adopted as a badge in the 1960s by the hacker culture surrounding TMRC and the MIT AI Lab. We have a report that it was used in a sense close to this entry's by teenage radio hams and electronics tinkerers in the mid-1950s.

Source: Jargon File / New Hacker's Dictionary / Whatever it's called nowadays.

**drdroid** · 10-06-2002

first of all, why would a hacker go to some large company guy and say; I'm a hacker... pay me to find your flaws. I mean, would he be turned in?

And second ethical and hacker don't really fit together because hacking is.. well hacking... the name ethical hacking doesn't give it justice... it's more like a beta tester of some sort.

**-KEN-** · 10-06-2002

Here's the definition I roll by: http://happyhacker.org/define.shtml (if you want to learn about ethical hacking, that's the site you want. Also, you could optionally buy her books - I hear they're great)

**-KEN-** · 10-06-2002

Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.

**RoD** · 10-06-2002

first of all, why would a hacker go to some large company guy and say; I'm a hacker... pay me to find your flaws. I mean, would he be turned in?

And second ethical and hacker don't really fit together because hacking is.. well hacking... the name ethical hacking doesn't give it justice... it's more like a beta tester of some sort.

1) Hackers don't usually go to the company and request, alot of times the companies find them. Its a symboiosis(sp), as its mutual for both parties. You cannot be turned in for saying you do something, as it is freedom of speech. Should the FBI or someone search your home and seize your pc based on a statement it would be in-admissible in court because u cannot search and/or sieze on the first amendment speech protection.

2) Ethical hacking and hacking are completely different. They fit together based on the actions of the ethical hacker. And as stated before, ethical cracker would be better terms.

**Fountain** · 10-06-2002

Originally posted by -KEN-
Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.

But you see, that depends on your definition. Going by the sites you posted maybe not.

It is still illegal to access somebodys network without permission. Check out the laws for this.

Oh man I had the URL for UK examples 'somewhere' .Never mind.

Ethics seems to be a dangerous word. A lot of posters think they can avoid the law because they think it is ethical to hack/crack and not cause damage. They can not.

**-KEN-** · 10-06-2002

>>It is still illegal to access somebodys network without permission. Check out the laws for this.

Well, using my definition of ethical/leagl "hacking" you most likely wouldn't be doing this. I guess it also depends on what you mean by accessing somebody's network. If I telnet to a port on your computer at random, it's not even close to illegal.

**Fountain** · 10-06-2002

Of course Ken that is true.

I think I shall have to check out some more 'definitions'

Seems to be many grey areas here though.

If you accessed my UNI network, without permission you would be breaking a law (or 2)

Same with a bank, but the law is the same as for accessing the UNI network.

Scanning etc is not illegal as you say.

I am still trying to tie this in with the ethical issue...To me if it is illegal it is UNethical.

Maybe this would be a good project. Got a blank subject coming up that I have to present. Hmmm interesting

**jawwadalam** · 10-06-2002

Originally posted by Commander
isn't "etical cracker" is a more appropriate term then "etical hacker"? because when u break into a computer(illegely) it's not hacking, it's cracking...just a thought

I must agreed that ethical hacking is not suitable... but ethical cracking is more suitable.. because... I have read the "Hacker is a Person who uses computer network for recreation
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While Cracker is a Person which cracks through Network Security for malacious Purposes...

**jawwadalam** · 10-08-2002

Originally posted by -KEN-
Ah, and btw - "ethical hacking" ISN'T illegal in any way, shape, or form.

Hacking is not illegal... Because.. what people think... about Hackers They must think that all about the
Cracker ...Because Cracker... Cracks into the Network.. for malacious purposes not a Hacker as you can check on the site of Happy Hacker http://happyhacker.org/define.shtml
....

**billholm** · 10-08-2002

Yeah but too bad the name hacker has already been tarnished. I suggest that hackers should wage war on crackers to dignify their image for the non-technical world to see.

**Govtcheez** · 10-08-2002

> Just because you do no harm, it is still illegal, and how it is ethical is beyond me.

I don't think a law necessarily defines ethics. There's plenty of unethical laws out there, and there's plenty of ethical ones. I think whether something's ethical is inherent to the action; it doesn't matter if there's a law or not.

Guys - we all know the definition and difference between hackers and crackers (technically), but I think it's time to give up this hacker vs cracker crusade, as far as naming goes (if you see a script kiddie in the street, feel free to string him up by his toes, though). Hacker's the common name to everyone who's not directly involved in technology and computers. It's become the correct word just by the excessive use it's gotten.

**jawwadalam** · 10-08-2002

Originally posted by Govtcheez
> Just because you do no harm, it is still illegal, and how it is ethical is beyond me.

I don't think a law necessarily defines ethics. There's plenty of unethical laws out there, and there's plenty of ethical ones. I think whether something's ethical is inherent to the action; it doesn't matter if there's a law or not.

Guys - we all know the definition and difference between hackers and crackers (technically), but I think it's time to give up this hacker vs cracker crusade, as far as naming goes (if you see a script kiddie in the street, feel free to string him up by his toes, though). Hacker's the common name to everyone who's not directly involved in technology and computers. It's become the correct word just by the excessive use it's gotten.

If Word Hacker's meanings are changed then why the Hacker's Community Insist.. that they are... doing the ethical.. work... Should't they choose any other... word for the Purpose of the Hacking they are Claming...??