Tried as an adult

**Govtcheez** · 10-02-2002

Yeah, I do. I feel there's some times when a fight's appropriate. This is probably one of them. But what happened later is totally ridiculous. They beat him so badly he tried to escape into a house, and they dragged him out just to keep going. It's insane. Anything less than a murder trial for at least some of these kids would be disgusting.

***kermi3*** · 10-02-2002

I agree totally, no contest.

**adrianxw** · 10-02-2002

The thing is, when I was 10, or 12 or "......." , (add age here), I would not have dreamt of breaking the law because there was the danger I would be caught and punished. Now, the kids know damn well if they are caught, nothing will happen to them. Sorry if it offends but this is plain and simply wrong.

Then, you would have chased after a young thug and frog marched him back to his parents house where they would have given him a good hiding and apologised profusely for their spawns actions.

Now try the same thing and you are wrong.

**BMJ** · 10-02-2002

Originally posted by adrianxw
The thing is, when I was 10, or 12 or "......." , (add age here), I would not have dreamt of breaking the law because there was the danger I would be caught and punished. Now, the kids know damn well if they are caught, nothing will happen to them. Sorry if it offends but this is plain and simply wrong.

Yes! The level of fear for the law that once was is long gone. Kids don't fear the law nearly as much as they used to. They know that if they get caught doing something legally wrong, we have a verbose legal system that will spawn arguments like this where we can't even agree how they should be tried!

**BMJ** · 10-02-2002

I don't think the justice system even works anymore... it doesn't deter anyone from breaking the law, especially capital punishment; Who does that benefit?

The way I see it, if I 100% absolutly knew that when I break the law, I would be punished with no question, exceptions, or hope of getting out of it, and would be punished for what I had done fairly no matter what I say, I would probably never break the law.

But that ain't the case these days is it?

**salvelinus** · 10-02-2002

Originally posted by BMJ

The way I see it, if I 100% absolutly knew that when I break the law, I would be punished with no question, exceptions, or hope of getting out of it, and would be punished for what I had done fairly no matter what I say, I would probably never break the law.

Well, who would? People who break the law are either:
1. Not aware of the law (not usually the case for violent crime)
2. Aware of the law but don't care if they're caught.
3. Don't think they'll be caught (the vast majority)

I'm against the death penalty, but if minors are tried as adults, that's ok. I'd make 10 or 11, maybe 12, the cutoff. If you're 13 you know what's right/wrong, or at least allowed/not allowed. If you don't, you probably never will.
I don't hold much hope for rehabilitation. It's got a bad success rate. For most crimes besides murder or heinously violent rape, a minor sentenced as an adult will be out in their twenties or at worst early thirties. If they've straightened out their head, fine If not, let the fear of the consequences stop them from assaulting the rest of us.
For violent criminals, the movie Escape From New York had the right idea. Put 'em on some remote island they can't leave, and leave 'em there. Worked for Australia.

[Just kidding about Australia. But not the rest.]

***kermi3*** · 10-02-2002

There's a very big diffrence between knowing what everyone else sees right and wrong as and being able to act that way. What these children know is right or wrong isn't what the rest of us know. They learn by example of parents, and peers. If their parents were abusive, teh children are often abusive. If parents are unfair an punish children for no reason, or frivolus reasons, that child from a young age is going to learn that they are going to be punished no matter what they do. Therefore right and wrong might exsist in the abstract sense, if they are mentally deveopled enough to be think that way, but in practicallity they have no meaning. Punishment comes no matter what? So who cares? And what's the only way that these children learn to deal with problems? The same way that their parents delt with them, violence.

**salvelinus** · 10-02-2002

Well, then the same rationale should apply to them when they commit violent crimes as adults. What's the difference?
I'll agree they likely had a poor upbringing (although not always), but what of it? Lots of people have had poor upbringings but don't commit crimes.
Unless they're truly mentally ill, they understand the idea of consequences and what's allowed and not allowed, even if not right and wrong. 14 year old gangbangers, for instance, don't go violent on the 25 year old gangleader. They rape the elderly lady, shoot the kid they think "dis's" them, maul and beat senseless the jogger in a public park who just happens to be there. They lure kids away at the mall then kill them on railroad tracks.
Do I care that they had a bad upbringing? Sure. It's too bad. So what? The fact is they're a danger to others and need to be kept away from the rest of us.

**red_baron** · 10-02-2002

if a person gets infected by a new virus, should they be killed so that others do not get it? or should they help try to find a cure?

**Betazep** · 10-02-2002

Originally posted by kermi3
OneStiffRod you are a fool. First of all for posting a site that blantly disreguards every conduct protocal of this board on a thread posted by the lead moderator. How long did you think that was going to stay up? I suggest you read the announcements and rules for this forum found on the top of every board.

Well kermi... I have been around for a quite a long while now, and I have never seen you act like this. Calling people names, striking people down from your high horse... not at all like you.

This is still a community if I remember correctly. Mr. Stiff has an opinion that differs from yours and was incorrect in putting up a link that may offend our community members and certainly breaks the board rules.

But to outright attack him does not show the prowess of a super moderator in any way.

My two cents... take em how ever you want. You are bigger than this.

**Betazep** · 10-02-2002

Originally posted by kermi3
OneStiffRod - I went to far and came near "flaming" you on my previous post. I appologize. Even mods go too far. Though I still strongly stand by my opinion. And I hold even more strongly to the point that your link was totally and utterly innappropriate.

I retract my statement calling you a "fool."

Nevermind... I like you again.

**RoD** · 10-02-2002

I think i will voice my opinion here, as per my recent happening. I am lucky i didn't go to jail and get charged as an adult int he recent abusive b/f fiasco, so it kinda hits close to home.

I feel that charging as an adult is completely appropriate when the kids :

A) Older then 16

B) Knew what he was doing

C) Pre meditated

and

D) Is mentally stable.

I do, however, feel that any action to help the kid should have presedence(sp)

**BMJ** · 10-02-2002

Originally posted by red_baron
if a person gets infected by a new virus, should they be killed so that others do not get it? or should they help try to find a cure?

Killing someone with a new virus doesn't prevent anyone from catching it as it could reside on the corpse for some time infecting others.