View Poll Results: Are you Against/For Java???

30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Against Java

    13 43.33%
  • For Java

    11 36.67%
  • Neutral

    6 20.00%

Thread: Against/For Java???

  1. #16
    5|-|1+|-|34|) ober's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    ok, I guess complicated was the wrong way to state it...

    Forget what I said. I guess I just try to soak what I can out of my providers for free. Then again, I don't use free providers.. soo.. most of my options are open....

    so I'm going to shutup now.. I feel like an ass.

  2. #17
    No Genius That's For Sure
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
     >' >' >' >'&>' CIS MajorIndiana CNC operator >'&>'FranceSkateboarding, Cno job7>' Swindon, UKCycling & ChessGraphic Analyst
    I believe that java "overtaking" C++ is in reference to number of programmers. So it is not really a reflection of the suitability of the language but rather of how many people use it. I would imagine that this number will always be lower for C++ than a few other languages that are easier to use.

    Last I had read- there were more VB programmers in the world than for any other language.

    I'm all for more options. Why only have one tool in your toolbox? The more options you have available to you as you meet each new situation- the better.

    Apart from Java's strengths as a language there is also the fact there are some real nice IDE's that are free or affordable. I love JBuilder.

    But to me the biggest issue is diversity and choice. The more languages available the better.
    He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose.

  3. #18
    &TH of undefined behavior Fordy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    >>I love JBuilder


    I love that real time syntax checker

  4. #19
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    If Micro$oft stops supporting Java, people will switch to Netscape.
    Jave will never ever replace C or C++. That's a silly thesis.
    IE 6 comes with XP, suposedly no support for Java, but I went
    on the Web using XP Pro and never got a message asking if I would like to d/l a Java plugin.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

  5. #20
    Fingerstyle Guitarist taylorguitarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    I think Java is a great tool.
    M$ thinks likewise. Take a look at C# and then Java and lie to me when you say they don't like alike. I don't think Java is the answer to all programmers' needs, but platform independent code is a great idea. It has its strengths and weaknesses but it definitely is a useful language. If you're looking to attack a language let's talk COBOL.
    If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?

  6. #21
    Has a Masters in B.S.
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    >wait, wait, wait... I thought I heard somewhere that Java wasn't even going to be supported by XP... or something like that.

    Java won't be suported on XP, and heres my theory why.

    it can be summed up as follows

    .NET and Sun says "NO MS WE ARE NOT YOUR #####!"
    ADVISORY: This users posts are rated CP-MA, for Mature Audiences only.

  7. #22
    Registered User Fool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    I've heard from a bunch of people that love Java. I'll be taking it myself in the next two years so I can't be against it either

  8. #23
    aur entuluva! mithrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    I'll be taking a Java class next year. From what I've seen it looks okay, so I'll vote for Java.

    What is it with the names for programming languages? Java - kindof some weird pun, cause programmers are supposed to be caffine junkies.

  9. #24
    geek SilentStrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    java = just another vague acronym
    Prove you can code in C++ or C# at TopCoder, referrer rrenaud
    Read my livejournal

  10. #25
    the hat of redundancy hat nvoigt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Hannover, Germany
    >If Micro$oft stops supporting Java, people will switch to Netscape.

    uhm, Rick, have you looked at todays websites with anything
    besides IE ? Most are optimized for IE in a way that makes them
    unreadable with anything else, especially Netscape. Not because
    of some evil MS ploy, but because as a developer you see so
    many features your customers demand, and the only way to
    make it possible is IE only features. I think if MS drops Java
    support and gives no easy way to download Suns VM, Java
    will die. Not because we don't use it. We know how to get a
    VM even if it's not included in the default Windows setting.
    But the average Joe will not know how to run Java if there
    isn't some window popping up telling him to click ok to
    download JVM somewhere in IE.

    Java... *sigh* a pathetic language, said to be the cure for
    everything. Said to be oh so wonderfully OOP.
    "everything's an object" I hear the teachers and some books
    say. Did they ever do something more than doing their
    college assignment ? Did anyone of you ever do any serious
    non-homework with it ? They have platform independence.
    If you need that, you don't have another choice at the moment.
    But that doesn't make it a good language.

    Try the following: (pseudocode)

    class CAR
    method setcolor
    method getcolor
    method setdriver
    method getdriver

    class DRIVER
    method setname
    method getname

    class POLICE
    method check performed on CAR

    Is there ANY way in Java to let POLICE operate on an
    instance of CAR and to make sure that the CAR instance
    is not getting changed by POLICE ? No.

    Is there any way for CAR to make it's DRIVER private
    member accessible for READ ONLY to the public ?
    No, there's not. Just try CARVAR.getdriver.setname("joe");
    How much OOP can it be when you can't protect your
    privates ???

    Can you define constants ? No.
    Final DRIVER d = new DRIVER("Jane");
    How constant is that ? Constant until I change it ?
    Ridiculous !

    Have you ever seen asserts in Java ? No ?
    That's not because they were too lazy to implement.
    It's because the compiler has NO means of figuring
    out if the assert will change the program in various

    Have you ever heard the line "everything is an object"
    from your teachers ? So they probably don't program,
    just teach. Why is it then, that Strings are NOT derived
    from Object and do NOT behave like objects when used
    as function parameters ? Ever wondered why Objects
    are passed by reference, but Strings and primitive types
    by value ? Oops, I said it, primitive types... seems as if
    we still don't have objects only...

    This all aren't features that make it a bad language.
    But C/C++ has them, so I wonder why they were
    omitted in Java ? Definetly not because of security.
    Leaving them out is a huuge opportunity to mess
    up a project and make debugging hell when working
    with a team.

    For those who said working with JDBC and sockets is
    so easy... how much harder can ODBC and socket with
    a normal library in C++ be ? Have you even tried ?
    Probably not.

    >Take a look at C# and then Java and lie to me when you say they don't like alike.

    Strangely enough, the above mentioned points do not
    apply to C#... only to Java.

    She was so Blonde, she spent 20 minutes looking at the orange juice can because it said "Concentrate."

    When in doubt, read the FAQ.
    Then ask a smart question.

  11. #26
    Registered User rick barclay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    >uhm, Rick, have you looked at todays websites with anything
    besides IE ?<

    Uh,...yes, I have. And you're right. Everything you said is
    probably correct, too, because I've read a few articles
    critcal of Java and praising C# for being an improvement over
    Java. But the thing with me is: is everybody willing to pay for
    these improvements? Bill Gates has always been considered
    a greedy person, from the inception of DOS right up to today's
    announcements by Microgates regarding corporate licensing
    of M$ software, the institution of software activation upon
    registration of a M$ product, etc., etc., etc. It's getting very
    expensive to be a customer of a man already considered the
    wealtiest person on the face of the Earth. Add today's
    troubled economy to the mix and you have a formula for
    people and corporations bolting to other vendors.

    Netscape has a long way to catch up; no doubt about it. But once
    people find the will and the strength to tear themselves away from an ever-enlarging Microsoft monopoly, Netscape could
    make its long-hoped-for comeback as the browser of choice
    for web-surfers, too. But they'd better be ready for this, because
    they've already been warned by many, many critics who have
    told SUN just what you said in your article. I'm rooting for them.
    I always root for the underdog-excepting, of course, times
    when underdogs cheat and kill innocents. But let's not get
    into that, please.

    rick barclay
    No. Wait. Don't hang up!

    This is America calling!

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