According to KEN, Bill Gates has a small dick, so you might be getting screwed and you don't even know it.
I don't know how an interface can help a programmer learn about the implimentation. I find that limiting and not worth learning. In this sense Win32 is no different than VB. I give up on taking Microsoft seriously, but to play around on, it's has some okay features I think.
Hmm.....Well I still love learning the API........and no way is the API as limited as the drap & drop crap that VB passes off as Win32 Programming.........Originally posted by TK
I don't know how an interface can help a programmer learn about the implimentation. I find that limiting and not worth learning. In this sense Win32 is no different than VB.
You want to see some cool stuff?
Lookup some articles & stuff on MSDN....look for stuff by Matt Pietrek or Jeff Richter...........
Also go to Iczilion's site and have a look at the tutorials and the forum he co admins with Steve Hutchesson (The guy who updates and distributes the MASM32 pakage)............there's enough to keep me learning for years to come....
"Hmm.....Well I still love learning the API........and no way is the API as limited as the drap & drop crap that VB passes off as Win32 Programming........."
Don't forget that VB allows you to create your own ActiveX OCX controls, if you find the standard ones too limiting...
As of the moment I am not entirely sure how much of the MS Windows OS that I will learn. It seems apparent that Win32 is a large interface, however learning how to use a function based on it's prototype, but never understanding the implimentation of the function is a problem for a CIS student. It would be nice to know how the software architecture is implimented.
I know that the API seems to be extensive, but if I spend a long time learning the interface and not studying any of the implementation, and they turn around and change the interface, than I have not gained anything from an academic perspective (mind my spelling, I never gained anything there either...that's why I know).
After I learned C I got involved with the UML. The UML is really a great thing. You can basically deisign and write a whole application in UML and than impliment it in any OOP language. Say I was a game programmer. I would want to target multiple platforms, instead of leaping into some API and just starting to code right away, I might instead want to use a very descriptive notation to describe all of my classes, maintain a bilateral relationship between data and behavior so that I could write some prototypes of the classes and even integrate and test them, follow architectural design patterns and design heuristics. The whole idea is to keep a broad base so that none of the doors shut and suddenly limit your choices. And that Win32 API no matter how extensive, is just an interface. I'm not convinced that anything can be learned by it.
on the popularity of vb... visual basic is the aol of programming... just because a lot of people use aol do you wanna use it too?
ok if your talking about execution speed make me a vb prog that will open files and replace certain words in them with another word in vb and lets compare how slow your vb app is comapre to my c++ appWHAT DID YOU SAY?? Have you ever programmed in VB? do you know what VB is? And I guarantee that you can make any VB program nearly as fast if not as fast as any C program.
Naive
vb has it's good and bad points along with every other language. The main point is, you use the language that suits the job. If you need a database front end for example, vb. If you need a cross-platform app for the internet or other reason, java. If you want to design operating systems, c++. You use the tools suited for the job, no one language is 'better' than the other. I have used Basic, QBasic, Visual Basic (that last one I have an MCP in and have been using for 3+ years now), Java 1.1, 1.3, 1.4, Pascal, Delphi, C++, Cobol, Html (if you can THAT as a language), SQL and one or two others I can't think of at the moment. As for the person who is saying vb is crap without ever actually trying it... well, it speaks for itself really. If you check the job posting on the market (or if you actually WORK in the market), you'll find a wide range of languages being used. Many companies even have their own languages tailored to their purpose. If C++ suits them, the'll use it or they'll buy a license and modify it to suit them better. VB is (currently) the most used language out there at the moment - it's in your interest to learn it if you don't - even if you hate it.
You say that you wont learn WinAPI because you are prohibited from the lowest level of its implementation, and then you sing the merits of UML which would have to be about the highest abstraction possible..........slight contridiction?Originally posted by TK
As of the moment I am not entirely sure how much of the MS Windows OS that I will learn. It seems apparent that Win32 is a large interface, however learning how to use a function based on it's prototype, but never understanding the implimentation of the function is a problem for a CIS student. It would be nice to know how the software architecture is implimented.
I know that the API seems to be extensive, but if I spend a long time learning the interface and not studying any of the implementation, and they turn around and change the interface, than I have not gained anything from an academic perspective (mind my spelling, I never gained anything there either...that's why I know).
After I learned C I got involved with the UML. The UML is really a great thing. You can basically deisign and write a whole application in UML and than impliment it in any OOP language. Say I was a game programmer. I would want to target multiple platforms, instead of leaping into some API and just starting to code right away, I might instead want to use a very descriptive notation to describe all of my classes, maintain a bilateral relationship between data and behavior so that I could write some prototypes of the classes and even integrate and test them, follow architectural design patterns and design heuristics. The whole idea is to keep a broad base so that none of the doors shut and suddenly limit your choices. And that Win32 API no matter how extensive, is just an interface. I'm not convinced that anything can be learned by it.
Working with Win32 isnt just textboxes and buttons.......there's a whole world under the hood that you dont get to see unless you look........try write a full Win32 GUI app in ASM........try to control a seperate process by injecting you're own code (ASM or a dll) into it.......that's the stuff that I find interesting.....there's enough to keep me puzzled for ages.
Any API is an interface. The implementation is hidden. The UML is a modeling language, not a programming language, and it is more expressive than any programming language, it can be used to model the most advanced software architectures to high level objects and user interfaces. My problem with Win32 is that I can't learn anything from it. It doesn't teach me how to program.
Win API
It's not meant to. You learnt o program first, and it's then that you see the functionality behind it - simply because you've done it yourself (sometimes
Yehey!!! Thank Heaven for VB! Hail VB!!! Long live VB!
All men are created equal. But some are more equal than others.
Visit me at http://www.angelfire.com/my/billholm
I recommend for you the movie 'The Time Machine'. You'll need it.
>Any API is an interface. The implementation is hidden.
Show me some code (in any language, including assembler) that doesn't function as an interface.
First learn what the difference between an interface and an implementation is. Try looking at the Linux kerel.
>First learn what the difference between an interface and an implementation is. Try looking at the Linux kerel.
The code in the linux kernel acts as an interface. Try again.
"The right tool for the right job", ever heard that? Now stop bickering, dumbasses.
