Something to think about:

**ygfperson** · 06-13-2002

the ozone layer isn't being destroyed by our cars. that's global warming. the ozone layer is being destroyed because of cfc's, a refridgerant discontinued everywhere years ago. unfortunately some still use products made with cfc's; and the cfc's in the atmosphere now still cause damage. it's a chain reaction.

**golfinguy4** · 06-13-2002

Originally posted by Shiro
>Some Japanese civilians go to work everyday on using bikes.
>Some of them don't even live near their jobs!!

I'm using my car to get to work, my work is 80 km away. Using a bike it would take hours to get to my work and if I have to go to a building in a different city, I would be more cycling than working. Not that it is bad, but my boss won't pay me for cycling.

Anyway, I think there should be also better bus connections and more train stations, at least in my country. If there was a train going from where I live to the office, then I would use it. A hundred people going by train is much cleaner than hundred cars or perhaps even 25 cars if people go car-pooling.

VW has invented a car which uses 1 liter/100 km.

http://www.news24.com/News24/Wheels2...168834,00.html

Also there are experiments with cars running on water, but not very succesful yet. Though there are some prototypes of cars which use water.

I think the large energy companies, oil- and gas companies, will be prepared to this new developments. But I wonder how the oil-producing countries will react. Take for example the middle-east, the countries there produce a lot of oil which is currently used as fuel and for other things. If oil isn't needed anymore for fuel, the need for oil wil decrease. I don't know a lot of economics, but I remember that if the need for oil decreases, also the prices will decrease. Anyway, I'm very curious to see how those oil-producing countries will react.

Shiro, do the cars run on water? I thought they used hydrogen fuel cells and the waste was water. I'm probably wrong, o well.

**golfinguy4** · 06-13-2002

ygf is right. It is the cfc's. They take an oxygen atom from a split oxygen molecule. Hence, the ozone(O3) cannot form because the extra oxygen atom is not there. The real kicker is that the process continues, and the chlorine(I think) stays up there for a while continuing the cycle of taking the oxygen atom.

**Dual-Catfish** · 06-13-2002

I don't worry myself over such issues, I'll be long dead before the ozone layer ever affects mankind.

**Hillbillie** · 06-13-2002

Here are some links that may be of interest to you.

http://www.fuelandfiber.com/Fuel/fuel.html
http://www.equalrights4all.org/bach/Fuel.html
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~verda...hemp_be_u.html
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~verda...hemp_be_u.html
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill...8342/fuel.html
http://www.unclenicks.net/tchi/COMME...Fuel/fuel.html
http://www.artistictreasure.com/learnmorecleanair.html

I guess I could go on, but that should be enough.

**Golden Bunny** · 06-13-2002

I"m not surprised.

Aran replies only to bash me and make me look stupid. What the hell, how could you guys worship this Aran character?! I didn't do anything wrong.

**Sentaku senshi** · 06-13-2002

Golden Bunney were is Aran trying to bash you in this thread. You might be interperting what he wrote in a wrong way.

**Golden Bunny** · 06-13-2002

it doesn't seem like bashing to you guy but he does it to get me angry. He does it on AIM alot on purpose, first page.

**Hillbillie** · 06-13-2002

> Aran replies only to bash me and make me look stupid. What the hell, how could you guys worship this Aran character?! I didn't do anything wrong.<

I don't worship Aran. Frankly, I hate the bastard!

Anyway, I'm sure Aran doesn't bash you. He's got sort of a blunt dry sarcasm (reminds me of Daria, ah, remember that show?), and that's one of the reasons we all like him.

**Govtcheez** · 06-13-2002

> What the hell, how could you guys worship this Aran character?! I didn't do anything wrong.

Well, I know I worship him. Anus is my hero!

Anyways - he's right. Ozone or not, there's not way I could ride my bike 45 miles to work everyday. I'd have to leave my house at 3 in the morning.

And like... somebody... said, IF electric, hybrids, or fuel cell cars are adopted, it's not gonna be for awhile. It would kick the hell out of the economy, plus the oil companies have more than enough cash to make sure none of that happens for a long, long time.

(I have to stop making posts after partying.... It's way too hard to think straight)

**adrianxw** · 06-14-2002

Sentaku senshi:

>>> Fuel cells will be used to power electitric cars by 2005

I am very well aware of fuel cell technology, however, the most efficient fuel cells use Hydrogen as fuel, Hydrogen is, (largely), made by electrolysis of water, which uses a lot of electricity, which has to be generated somewhere so once again...

>>> You simply move the pollution source from the car to the generating station.

**novacain** · 06-14-2002

We are introducing the solar powered BBQ in our national parks, at US$25,000 each. Where else would that be a priority?! Power stored in battery for night time and solar panel acts as a roof / shade.

Can't use wood as fire hazard. Gas BBQ + Beer + Idiot = BANG! (not that we are running low on idiots but the waste of beer is disturbing us)

**Govtcheez** · 06-14-2002

> We are introducing the solar powered BBQ in our national parks, at US$25,000 each.

That sounds pretty neat - do you have a link or something where there's a pic or info?

**Shiro** · 06-14-2002

>Shiro, do the cars run on water? I thought they used hydrogen
>fuel cells and the waste was water. I'm probably wrong, o well.

You may be right, I don't know the correct English translation.

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