reality is in material

**Hillbillie** · 05-19-2002

>I'd have to disagree, he is voicing common sense. And he's venting frustration that I feel all too well.<

Wrong. He's being offensive and immature. Remember when I said I didn't want any head biting, this is exactly what I was referring to. There's always someone that marches in and starts throwing pans at people who s/he disagrees with. I should've known it was inevitable. You've been "tolerating" us throughout this debate, and haven't shown any offense, but he was never in it and couldn't control himself. He was out of line. Simple as that.

>I'm being perfectly logical, the very fact that you can admit that your being illogical implies your opinion is invalid.<

Opinions, opinions...

Anyway, I think I should leave this debate. It's growing ever-so close to the headbiting party I tend to stray from.

Thankyou, good men, for bringing a few insights and amusing me at the same time.

And, Dalren, you make some very fine points.

>[note: most philosophic definitions and examples taken from my fav. philosopher Ayn Rand]<

Hmm, I'll have to check out some of his work...

>[i must be bored today]<

Hehe, you must be.

**ihsir** · 05-19-2002

HeHe this is a funny thread..

>>the guy who thinks the world turns to ham when you're not looking ...

... is high on pot.

**Hillbillie** · 05-19-2002

Hehe...

And, for the record, I'm NOT the guy that brought up the ham world theory. That was Aran. I was simply using it as an example in one of my posts.

**stevey** · 05-19-2002

aaaaahhhh don't remind me of pot !!!

ive kicked my pot habit, with tremendous willpower !! actually sod it, i think i'm gonna indulge later..everthing in moderation i guess...

then i'm gonna go talk to the fairies at the bottom of my garden.....if those little bleeders try to turn into ham when i'm not looking i'm gonna throw a pan at them....or my diaper contents, jeez i'm so immature.......

**Dalren** · 05-19-2002

heh, so you know Hillbille Ayn Rand happens to be a female, not a guy, and most of her work is in the form of quite long, but very good novels. She basicly advocates pure capitalism and small government

Unregistered · 05-19-2002

stevey seems to get frustrated when talking to people who seem to have no basis in reality, they just go on and on talking rubbish and will not listen to reason and logic.
of course its irritating, and youve only said what rational people were thinking.
but remember that if you are abusive and use profanity then you lose your argument. now the thread seems to have ended and they leave feeling smug as if they have won the argument, the argument has descended into 'stevey is immature' and deflected attention away from loony 'ham theories'.
in future leave it to Clyde to debate with irrational people, he is far more tolerant and will win the argument with logic. not that they will ever conceed he has won, because they are irrational, but to outsiders reading the thread it is obvious.

**Clyde** · 05-19-2002

"Wrong. He's being offensive and immature. Remember when I said I didn't want any head biting, this is exactly what I was referring to."

Fair enough, I can see why you're ........ed off. But i can also see exactly why he said what he said.

I wish you well, but i offer this piece advice; do not overestimate your own ability to form conclusions without specific training.

Reading a few pop philosophy books, doesn't really give you much of heads up because chances are you don't know how to evaluate philosophy.

Most people don't, that is why you get people quoting philosophers from thousands of years ago whose conclusions have been proved beyond reasonable doubt to be utterly utterly wrong (like just about everything ever said on the topic of "love").

**Hillbillie** · 05-19-2002

>But i can also see exactly why he said what he said.<

As can I, although it still doesn't make it right...

>I wish you well<

Likewise.

>Reading a few pop philosophy books, doesn't really give you much of heads up because chances are you don't know how to evaluate philosophy.<

The only stuff I've read that I consider philosophy was Discourse on Method and Meditations on First Philosophy. Great essays in my opinon. Anyhow, I know I'm no philosopher.

Just to let you all in on a secret, I wasn't ever really trying to win this debate.

I do not feel very strongly toward any of the arguments made (including my own). I guess you could say I was just "looking" for a fight.

Kinda' trying to make you guys' heads sweat.

I guess it worked...

**stevey** · 05-19-2002

well its either...

a) you never believed a word you were saying and yet you still go on and on and on with the gibberish hoping somebody who thinks you're an idiot will bluntly say so, then you can brand him immature and offensive even tho' you know he's right. take delight in having caused a fight , and take delight in wasting clydes time in trying to debate logically, enjoying any frustration so caused, indeed endevouring to maximise the frustration...

or

b) you actually believed the gibberish but then think oohhh ive lost my argument, people reading this post will think i'm daft, ive made a very decent attempt to deflect the argument into a stevey is offensive tangent thereby avoiding answering the sensible questions part of stevey's post, but i have been daft i realise it now, i'd better wink a fair bit and make out it was all a joke. with a few winks and smileys, i will be able to leave looking all superior.......

well looking at it i vear towards b), since if i posted something about fairies as a bit of fun, kept arguing that there were fairies
on and on, and some common sense blunt guy said 'stevey you're a ****ing wanker', i wouldn't take offense cos he'd be right. you wouldn't be so ........ed off (and u obviously were, continually banging this immature thing that fyodur kindly gave you) if you realised you were talking nonsense.
plus you almost left without 'admitting you were joking', a couple of times.

yep, definately b)

[btw being offensive and not tolerating fools gladly is nothing to do with maturity]

**Aran** · 05-19-2002

i know nothing about physics?
you know less about me than i know about physics. I talk of physics because i know what i am talking about, not just to sound educated.

I think that the Axiom of Identity post was the best post in this thread and the rest was useless argueing over something that neither side can ever prove or disprove.

**fyodor** · 05-19-2002

Then why do you make judgements based on this reasoning every moment of your life?
Why for example are you not cowering for fear that the five foot, six armed dragon, standing to your left, is about to eat you?

Good point. I suppose it is because my mind is equipped rather poorly to handle the concept of infinity, and it is far easier to make decisions based on past knowledge than on evaluating infinite probabilities. It's not that belief A has a greater or lesser probability (in the strict sense) than belief B, just that all my experience confirms belief A and not B. If, as I think you said earlier, there an infinite number of possibilities, then there is no difference between a 1/infinity prob and a (really big #)/infinity prob. It just does not make sense to take the probabilities over the infinite set.

Your knowledge is wrong, studied calculus?

Yes. I'm not sure I get your point?

stevey:
Not losing your temper over some rather insignificant thing is considered to be an aspect of maturity, I think.

**stevey** · 05-19-2002

>>stevey:
Not losing your temper over some rather insignificant thing is considered to be an aspect of maturity, I think.

by your reasoning, am i any more immature than hillbillie then ???
anyway...
why do you keep banging on with this immaturity thing ????
i can quite easliy be 'mature' if i wanted, not offensive, very careful ,considered, careful not to offend, painfuully tolerant, painfully reasonable, well i don't want to, its boring and well overrated. you get past 30 and you have to behave impeccably or you are 'immature', sod that.
i have to be 'mature' in real life, can't i have some fun on here ???
and i never said anything that other people weren't thinking in any case.....

and why do you keep saying i lose my temper?? or is it the somewhat offensive style of posting ??
do have to put a smile after everthing i say ????

**Hillbillie** · 05-19-2002

>why do you keep banging on with this immaturity thing ????<

Because you're acting....immature?

**stevey** · 05-19-2002

am i ????? and you aren't ??? least i just like to act...i'm a bit sensible in real life...

why don't you answer the a or b thing ???? stop enjoying deflecting the attention.....