Thread: the us constitution

howdy,
i do not dissagree with you on that last point, it's just a fact that the economics of today are global.
i would however ask you this, how much of the destruction to smaller economis is done by the American work force and how much is done by the American government.
As an American business owner i struggle with labor laws on a daily basis, most of which i take exception to.
My business is located near the US mexican border so I also deal with migrant workers. I surely dont discriminate against someone just because they don't speak english, in fact i go out of my way to give them opportunities.
what i'm trying to say is, to single out a PERSON based on the actions of thier homeland government is at best discriminatory.
i personally base my judgments on the person, thier integrity and abilities not their country of origin or political views.

M.R.

Actually it was a comment to show both you and Traveller that your attitudes/comments influence our attitudes. And CAN affect others, no matter how remote we seem.

Seems it worked on you.

You did not like it when I said I would take advantage of a US serviceman, but you do nothing to stop your government taking advantage. If you do not complain who will? Your government ignores our government (and we are your allies). It knows by the time we get a ruling against the US in the WTO our industies will be dead (takes two - three years).

>>what i'm trying to say is, to single out a PERSON based on the actions of thier homeland government is at best discriminatory.
How are Afghani's and Muslims being treated in the US at the moment? Do you even know the approx number of Afghani civillian casualties in the war on terror? But I bet you know the exact number of casualities in the WTC.

You can't have it both ways. Show us no respect, then demand we show some to you.

to paraphrase :Traveller
"We don't care about your countries. If there are US children starving, the rest of you can go to hell."

to paraphrase :itld
"Oh, you have to respect us as individuals and ignore what the US does to you."

howdy,
The number o civilian casualties in Afganistan has never been made public to my knowledge. i still don't see how that effects person to person discrimination,
As far as Muslums in the United States are concerned keep this in mind, they still practice thier religion in peace, they are still employed, they are still RESPECTED as American citizens,.
look aty the case of Zacaria(sp) the ONLY other terrorist to be arrested in conection with the WTC, he is being given ALL of the privledges of an American Citizen even though his intentions were questionable.
so answer me this what has an American citizen ever done to you, and how effective is a single individual at changing your government policies?

M.R.

Civillian casualties in Afghanistan are over 5000 according to the Aust. Broadcasting Commision. (our govt. TV)

>>look aty the case of Zacaria(sp) the ONLY other terrorist to be arrested in conection with the WTC, he is being given ALL of the privledges of an American Citizen even though his intentions were questionable.

Because he is a US citizen. As is Lindt.

Look at Hicks and (ah, I have forgotten his name). The two Aust citizens in Camp X-Ray, Cuba. They are yet to see an Aust Govt official. let alone a lawyer or family seven months after their capture.

Why? Because they are not US citizens and we could not guarantee a conviction in Aust.

No single US citizen has done anything to me. Your govt has made 10% of my work mates redundant so far this year. It annoys me that to save US jobs you break the law and cost more jobs around the world. (NY Times put it at 1 US job==7 Overseas) (we work R&D in steel, US introduced tariffs adding 30% to our steels price)

A single person can make a difference. An avalance starts with one small movement.
Less than 20 people had the greatest impact on history so far this century. They certainly moved the whole world. (not that I agree with what they did)

howdy,
i must confess my igorance as to what nationalities are being held in Cuba our "Private" media outlets pretty much only tell the American Public what they think they need to Know. I imagine PBS probably reports a little mor about this kind of stuff.
As far as steel, i own a steel construction bussiness and have been in the business for over 20 years and i cant say i've ever seen a piece of structural steel from down under, i'm guessing it's not a huge percentage of the steel used in the US.
I would not expect outside governments to convict thier citizens of acts of war against other countries i do however believe that if an individual takes up arms either offensive or defensive against another country and is captured they should by treated by POW's tha limits the resposibility of the capturer.
i minored in political science and can tell you in the US the attempt to make radical politcal changes is allways met with the impossible resistance, the current 2 party system is so deeply engrained that it is impossible to move.

M.R.

>>As far as steel, i own a steel construction bussiness and have been in the business for over 20 years and i cant say i've ever seen a piece of structural steel from down under, i'm guessing it's not a huge percentage of the steel used in the US.

Remember this reaches further than just the actual steel.

Reduced demand for steel == reduced demand for iron ore. We work for a company that exports iron ore. 80% ends up as steel to the US.
We do safety systems for the big machines / trains. So Aussie programmers are loosing jobs because of a US steel tariff.

As to the POW's, sorry "illegal combatants". At least give them their rights / conditions under the Geneva convention if you are going to refuse to give them access to legal / diplomatic / family aid.

howdy,

At least give them their rights / conditions under the Geneva convention if you are going to refuse to give them access to legal / diplomatic / family aid.

i agree 100%.
the American governments policy of calling these men political prisoners is absolutley obsurd. We captured thenm in an action the "WE" called a war and we should act acordingly as far as prisoners.

Mining has been devistated here also our company just lost a fairly large contract to a copper mine when the mine simply shut down.
i personally am not a fan of GWB's tariffs. We as alot of us Americans know it is because the American steel industry can not compete on the world stage. I think it is mostly because the US labor unions have taken control and the large steel companies in an effort to subdue the union voice have stoped putting $$$ in to technology and sent most of the $$$ out the door as inflated salaries.

M.R.

Civillian casualties in Afghanistan are over 5000 according to the Aust. Broadcasting Commision. (our govt. TV)

What world do you inhabit that there are no civilian casualties in war? Newsflash: Here on 'Earth' civilians die in wars all the time. It's what some of us like to call 'reality.'

No single US citizen has done anything to me. Your govt has made 10% of my work mates redundant so far this year. It annoys me that to save US jobs you break the law and cost more jobs around the world. (NY Times put it at 1 US job==7 Overseas) (we work R&D in steel, US introduced tariffs adding 30% to our steels price)

The German govt killed millions of Jews/Poles etc. So we should try to take advantage of all Germans! Not to mention the Ruskies! They killed even more! I guess we can consider them subhuman because of what their govt did!
You are being rather hypocritical here, novacain. You rail against the death toll of innocent Afghan civilians, and yet you feel justified in taking advantage of Americans. It is not the American individual who laid of 10% of your coworkers, but his govt. Likewise, it is not the common, everyday Afghan who flew a plane into WTC, but an organization with close ties to the govt. But doing injustice to the former is perfectly acceptable while the latter is execrable?

Please try not to take my comments out of context. Or at least fully read them before posting your critisism.

>> Novacain "Do you even know the approx number of Afghani civillian casualties in the war on terror? But I bet you know the exact number of casualities in the WTC. "

I'm not disputing that innocent civillians get killed in wars. My point was the contrast in the media coverage.

Don't you care that the war has accidently killed over 5000 innocent civillians? As you say they have done nothing wrong. They don't even get the CHANCE to vote on their government.

As to my taking advantage of US servicemen, did you read this post?
>>Novacain:: Actually it was a comment to show both you and Traveller that your attitudes / comments influence our attitudes. And CAN affect others, no matter how remote we seem.

I got you too. Don't like it do you, when someone takes advantage because they CAN?

I have no choice but to accept that, even though my country produces a better product, for a cheaper price, I will not make money because the US government has illegally increased our products price (or in the case of lamb, beef limited the amount we can export to the US).

Does not mean I have to be quiet about it as well.

This attitude from an American is why I said it. Do you agree with this attitude?
>>Traveller
"As far as I'm concerned it isn't our place to suplly other nations with financial security. If they screewed things up too bad. As long as their are American citizens starving in the streets and little American children dying due to lack of healthcare and food, I personally don't give a crap about another nations children."

howdy,

what is the difference between this

I got you too. Don't like it do you, when someone takes advantage because they CAN?

and this

It annoys me that to save US jobs you break the law and cost more jobs around the world.

the fact that WE or YOU can take advantage is not really a reason to take advantage or not take advantage.

M.R.