Thread: middle east again...

are you by any chance a Jehova's Witness. ive never met anyone else who believed in the bible literally.
even the Pope has said the big bang and evolution are true, and that the garden of eden, noahs arc etc are just stories with a moral point. they are not to be taken seriously and literally !!!!!!

Noah's Ark
...just refuses to be found

In about 1900 an expedition (I'll get the specifics if you so desire) to mount Ararat reported finding a large ship-like structure. He took a wood sample, and brought it back down. He had it tested, it was indeed the proper wood and pitch on it. In fact, this large structure even shows up on american military satellites. Why can't it be found? Because of political instability in the area, no expeditions have been allowed since about 1940 (I think)

Size of the Earth
...has obviously expanded greatly since Noah's day, when he could, in a short period, collect pairs of all animals and birds from all over the world, without the benefit of modern air transport. Then after the Flood, the critters all had to migrate, at the double-quick, to their present habitats in Tasmania, the Galapagos, the coasts of Antarctica, Patagonia, the American Southwest, or wherever. It's clear the Earth was no more than a few hundred miles across, probably flat, and with no inconvenient oceans like, say, the Pacific.


No, they were localised in one area.

good grief !!!

to hold all the species, the arc would have had to be about the size of a modern aircraft carrier !!!

and that was nice of our benign god to kill everyone and all animals apart from noah. how kind.
are you a JW ?? its a reasonable question.....

Originally posted by mike_k
No I am not a JW.

well u sure talk like one. totally of your trolley IMHO.

Heh, and there was me thinking the debate was over.... ok:

"Actually, no it does not. You have ignored the fact that the grammer does not require it to literally be days, the Hebrew word "Yom" also means age, for example, Moses also wrote "in the "Day" that the Lord made the earth..." Also, the earth "was" formless and void, is also correctly translate "became" formless and void. ie, it could have been around a long time before God created man. "

Yes and even if you argue the vagues possible translation, it still disagrees with everything we know about the universe.

"Sorry, it just says that God took a rib from Adam, not from every man. Unless you'd like to quote a verse saying otherwise? "

I see, well one would have thought that humanity would have inherited Adam's traits but ok, you can have that one.

"You make it too easy. The first story is chronological, the second is topical. I already dealt with the translation issue above. "

Heh this one however is a completely unsatisfactory answer; no matter which translation you choose the first book of geneisis says man is created after the animals and the second says he created before them: contradiction.

"An orbiting canopy of water was (probably) used to diffuse the light from the sun and create an equally temperate earth."

ROFL orbiting? Water orbiting the Earth? haha thats a good one.

"Also, you don't seem to understand that the 6000 years is the minimum time it must have been, since that is the age derived from all the geneologies. However, it's obvious to any student of the bible that the genealogies in the bible are not completely inclusive of everyone, but just provide an overview. And the 6000 or more years are just time man has been around, not the earth."

Not so obvious to thousands of creationists who favour the young hypothesis because they believe that a literal intpretation of the bible means the universe is 6000 years old. I guess they don't know the bible right? And man has been Earth for over 100,000, so errrmmmm....

"Finally, how do we know the earth is millions of years old? Well because the universe is expanding (we know this because light is red shifted, implying velocity)"

Utterly wrong, we know the Earth is BILLIONS of years old because every different type of radiometric dating independantly confirms it to be the same value: 4 billion years old. Further more there is light coming from stars so far away that it takes the light millions of years to get to us.

Now before you go runniing to your creationists nonsense sites, it is worth noting that: A: No C14 dating is not flawed because, when you use it you take into account the amount lead originally present. B: Just because there have been people in the past who have buggered up the dating does not mean anything, the fact that all radiometric dating comes up with the same value, which agrees which gives the Earth's age a value which also agrees with geological formation, with astronomical predictions, etc. etc. etc. There is no doubt over the Earth's age.

Oh and also you might digging up the old "speed of light has got slower" BS that was suggested by another creationist to get out of accepting the age of the Earth and was thoroughly rejected as lacking any evidence nor supporting evidence, and being generally a load of nonsense.

"Mmm hmm. Most are tiny little bugs and stuff. The bigger animals would probably just be infants, to maximise storage space. Also, they would most likely have been put into a supernatural coma, to preserve food supplies and space"

LOL, do you have any idea how many species of animal there are?

Incidently in almost all cases you CANNOT POSSIBLY start a population with just 2 individuals, because you get expression of damaging recessive alleles that is why imbreeding is bad, that totally screws both the Adam and Eve fairy tale and the Ark faff.

Here is one of the many reasons why the flood as described in the bible is NOT a possiblity:

http://www.angelfire.com/mb/304654home/ark.html

It's very simple and irrefuteable, oh wait I know whats coming:

The original translation "probably" said it was just below the mountains! YEA!

"Only one pair of the elephant "kind" (are they "clean" or "unclean"?) were aboard, and immediately afterward evolved into 160 different species, 158 of which immediately became extinct.

So? We have a whole bunch of different breeds of horses from just a few."

And you missed the point fantastically here, which is just how rediculous it is to suggest that one species of elephant was saved because it was "clean" which then spontaneously evolved into 160 different species 158 of which became immediately extinct!! And where the heck did those other species of elephant come from anyway ???? Surely not..... evolution....... lol.