Thread: Will you sign up to fight?

Isreal also makes some of the best electronic security systems in the world. They have miles and miles of fenceline that are covered by RF sensors. Like you said... they are pretty much the only country in the Middle East that can produce finished goods.

Their fighter pilots routinely beat ours in simulated combat. They are brilliant and kind people... and they are hated and persecuted for it by these other warring nations.

I know all of this for a fact...

Does anyone know what kind of surplus America has in oil? I am pretty sure it is enourmous. I also know that Texas and the Alaskan pipeline could easily support us in times of war for quite some time. I read that somewhere.

~Betazep

>>>America was attacked because we planned on attacking them, get your facts straight people.


This is true... I live twenty minutes from Pearl Harbor. I have seen the movies at the USS Arizona and seen a lot of the history in the historical museum.

>Islam= Rip of of Judaism, Muhammed created his religion from Judaism, this is known fact, not fiction<

A "rip" of Judaism? You can say the same about Christianity, Islam just takes Christianity to even a more modern stage. So i don't know what you mean by "rip".

>They are brilliant and kind people<

Oh yes there so civilized that they fire missiles on people throwing rocks. Isreal is a brutal country, the current wave of violence was started by them.

>1 week before attacks America and Isreal pulled out together due to Anti - Zionism. Conference was on racism, Afghanistan, along with all manner of 3rd world underdeveloped nations attacked isreal for being "Racist". <

And along with that, a hell of a lot of developed countries as well....... the whole world understands whats going on better than most americans do

>>>the current wave of violence was started by them.

You are full of it.... provide a legitimate source that concurs with your made up opinion.

Isreal fires missles at organizations that send suicide bombers to blow up their busses (to name one instance). You want an article or five, idiot.

These other nations have wanted that land for centuries... and they (as a whole) hate jews because they are not muslim.

Tell me... oh master of the known... what happens to an Islamic middle eastern man that steals a loaf of bread due to hunger.

Yeah... you know what civilized is...

>You are full of it.... provide a legitimate source that concurs with your made up opinion.

Isreal fires missles at organizations that send suicide bombers to blow up their busses (to name one instance). You want an article or five, idiot.

These other nations have wanted that land for centuries... and they (as a whole) hate jews because they are not muslim.

Tell me... oh master of the known... what happens to an Islamic middle eastern man that steals a loaf of bread due to hunger.

Yeah... you know what civilized is...<


Oh man where do I start. Number one don't call me an idiot. It just shows your incapable of having a discussion without resorting to childish name calling.

Number two, don't lie about things, especially where you have no idea what your talking about. Hate Jews????? Do you even know anything about the history of the region? I mean come on, you've got to be mindless to think that, in fact when Muslims controlled the region they allowed all religions to pray freely as they pleased.

Number three, that’s not my opinion. Aerial Sharon, sent 3,000 troops to sacred and holy places where Muslims worshiped, and denied them the right to do so over there. And your telling me that Muslims hate Jews? Its defiantly the other way around. And that’s what got a lot of these Palestinians enraged. So don't tell me im full of it, because your dull mind can't comprehend what’s actually going on.

Its almost sad and pathetic to see people like you, so ignorant on the subject.

>>>don't lie about things, especially where you have no idea what your talking about. Hate Jews????? Do you even know anything about the history of the region?

when you say stuff like that... it really makes me think you are an idiot. You give opinion and state it as fact. You dance around the shroud of reality and assume others know nothing (probably hope) because of who they are or where they live. Do *you* know what you are talking about?

Palestinian children are sent into the streets to throw rocks, firebombs, and even grenades at Israeli soldiers. They are taught in their schools and mosques to hate Israelis and Jews. They are urged by television ads to 'cast down their toys and take up arms'. They are trained in special summer camps to be "holy warriors" in the 'Jihad' against Israel and the Jews. It is no surprise then that the are among the casualties in the wake of violent clashes between Palestinian mobs and Israeli soldiers.

Oct 1: A car bomb exploded in the Talpiot neighborhood of Jerusalem shortly after 9:00 AM. According to initial reports, one person was lightly injured.

Sbarro bombing (August 9) in which 15 people were killed, including 7 children, and about 130 were injured.

The Palestinian Authority regards every Palestinian casualty as a victory in its struggle for international sympathy. Consequently, its goal has been to foment violent confrontations between Palestinians and Israeli soldiers, and then capitalize on the bloody results.

Who is responsible for the outbreak of violence?

The recent wave of terrorism and violence is the result of a deliberate Palestinian decision to prefer force over negotiations.

Great f**k... and I thought it had to do with missles and rocks... wonder what idiot told me that. Here lets continue....

In July 2000, a Middle East Peace Summit was held at Camp David, attended by Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat and then-Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, and hosted by then-US President Bill Clinton. At the Summit, it became clear to all that a negotiated settlement could only be achieved through a willingness of both sides to show flexibility. While Israel presented proposals demonstrating its willingness to make historic compromises for peace, the Palestinian leadership balked at the prospect and left the talks without offering any historic compromises of its own. Following the Summit, the Palestinian leadership decided to attempt to achieve through violence what they could not achieve through negotiations - a solution without compromise. This is the source of the wave of Palestinian violence and terrorism which began in September 2000 and became known as the Terror Intifada.

The violent events recently witnessed in our region are the result of a clear Palestinian decision to pursue violence as a political tool. Israel seeks to resolve its differences with the Palestinians at the negotiating table, while Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority have chosen the path of ongoing confrontation.

This deliberate choice by the Palestinian leadership to pursue violence rather than negotiation was clearly explained in the Palestinian media. On December 6, 2000, the semi-official Palestinian daily Al-Ayyam reported as follows:

"Speaking at a symposium in Gaza, Palestinian Minister of Communications, Imad Al-Falouji, confirmed that the Palestinian Authority had begun preparations for the outbreak of the current intifada from the moment the Camp David talks concluded, this in accordance with instructions given by Chairman Arafat himself. Mr. Falouji went on to state that Arafat launched this intifada as a culminating stage to the immutable Palestinian stance in the negotiations, and was not meant merely as a protest of Israeli opposition leader Ariel Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount."

Similar statements have been made by other Palestinian officials, in the Palestinian and Arab press and media.

The current confrontation was deliberately initiated, and continues to be nurtured by the Palestinian leadership as a strategic choice on their part. This was true from the earliest days of the crisis, and it remains true today. To that end, Yasser Arafat and the Palestinian Authority have:

Used official Palestinian media to incite the Palestinian society to violence against Israel and Israelis.

Authorized the Tanzim militia (an organ of Yasser Arafat’s 'FATAH' PLO faction) to fire upon Israeli civilians and soldiers, with weapons supplied by the Palestinian Authority.

Released dozens of Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists from Palestinian prisons, signalling to these organizations that they have a green light to launch attacks against innocent Israeli citizens.

These policies of the Palestinian leadership have led to a series of bloody terrorist attacks, including car bomb explosions in Israeli cities, drive-by shootings, and road-side ambushes targeting commercial vehicles, family cars and even school buses.

Why is this violence occurring?

Rather than negotiating an equitable compromise, the Palestinian leadership prefers to sustain its legacy of 'revolution until victory'.

Contrary to what has been claimed in various circles, the visit of then Israeli opposition leader Ariel Sharon to Jerusalem's Temple Mount in late September did not cause the violence. It was merely a pretext to launch this premeditated campaign. The 'Temple Mount visit' excuse was debunked by the Sharm el-Sheikh (Mitchell) Fact-Finding Committee which investigated the start of the violence and presented its findings in April 2001.

The true roots of the current violence stem back to the Camp David Summit less than three months earlier, when Arafat clearly demonstrated his rejection of balanced compromise by dismissing all the proposals advanced by the U.S. government. Israel, for its part, declared its willing to consider these proposals as a basis for the negotiations. Consequently, then-President Clinton placed the blame for failure of the talks squarely at Arafat's feet.

It is no coincidence that the violence began at a time when Israel was expressing its willingness to make unprecedented, far-reaching compromises in order to reach a workable, enduring agreement. Arafat was given a real opportunity to achieve a resolution through negotiations and compromise, and to bring tangible, considerable benefits to the Palestinian people. However, Israel's olive branch was met with a hail of gunfire, rocks and firebombs. Rather than risk being labelled as weak by Palestinian extremists opposed to any form of compromise or conciliation with Israel, Arafat preferred to cast himself as a relentless revolutionary. Consequently, he opted to use violence rather than accept compromise.

You want more.... I took history in college. I could start with my opinions.... naaaah I think I will just stick with facts. Bring it biatch...

You guys always want facts. Well facts don't talk about everything because there is too much regulation regarding what they are allowed to print.

The only reason why I might not cheer for the Jews is because they horde money. Of course they are rich. They only spend among themselves.

I think that we learned that nobody can build enough of a defense so that they are invincible. We are going to have to get rid of some of the main terrorist organizations and than some how plan to make peace in the world. There are a lot of problems at this time.

I wouldn't compare literacy in order to make a statement about a race of people. It's a shame that the whole world can not be literate, and race does not matter.

Christianity and the Muslim faith were not rip offs of Judaism because these religions involved communication with the Lord. Of these religions Judaism was the first and most of the pentatuch is a historical document described to Moses by God who than copied the information down into writing. Judaism however was definately not the first religion, yet it was one of the first recorded into text form.

I would perfer to look at all the religions from a historical and literary point of view. That's what I think is the most civilized way of going about it.

And the F16 is not the most agile aircraft. This is well known. Some of the USA military assets are old. They need to be replaced.

>>And the F16 is not the most agile aircraft. This is well known. Some of the USA military assets are old. They need to be replaced.

Very very true...

Originally posted by Witch_King
The only reason why I might not cheer for the Jews is because they horde money. Of course they are rich. They only spend among themselves.

And the F16 is not the most agile aircraft. This is well known. Some of the USA military assets are old. They need to be replaced.

AntiSemitism is disgusting.

What modern, active fighter/interceptor is more agile than the F-16?
Our inventory may be old but it is still the best.
Of the current fighters- F-14, F-15, F-16, FA-18, AV-8, F-111 are the ones that come to mind readily- the F-16 is the most agile.

The f-22 and JSF are still in development.

In fact it may not currently be feasible to build a fighter aircraft more agile than the F-16. The Fighting Falcon already can perform maneuvers that exceed in G's what the human body can withstand.

If what you are saying is well known- it must be well known in a small circle.

And if you are taking into account foreign powers- noone builds aircraft that come remotely close to those I have listed. All foreign militaries either buy from us or use inferior aircraft. This would be something that could be safely noted as a well known fact.

And please don't bring up Migs. They are junk against U.S. air power. This has been shown repeatedly in air to air combat.

Oh- and who has the best air force in the world?

Israel. The best pilots (they get the most experience) in the best planes (built in the U.S.).

The F22's still in development? You sure? I thought they were in a sort of limited release... (based on my vast knowledge of airplanes, which is, of course, only exceeded by my vast knowledge of the price of wheat in Ecuador, so it amounts to nil)

>The only reason why I might not cheer for the Jews is because they horde money. Of course they are rich. They only spend among themselves<

Sorry, wk, but that is the antithesis of the truth. I and any
landscaper in New Jersey will tell you that if if weren't for
Jews, there wouldn't even be a landscaping industry here as we
know it. They spend money, pal--lots of it.

One of the most hypocritical ramarks Christians love to point
out about Jews is how cheap they are. Well the facts refute
that claim. Jews spend more money than any other religious group.
The Christians are the cheap ones, followed by Orientals (the
cheapest, by far of any ethnic group I've had experience with),
Indians, and Arab/Muslims. They all want you to work for
nothing.

One reason people horde money is so they can have it during
periods of financial stress. There's really nothing too immoral
in that, when you take pogroms and wars into consideration.
Frankly, I think it's a smart thing to do.

rick barclay

The contractor portion of the Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase of the program is scheduled to be completed this year.

The aircraft is scheduled to enter operational service in 2004.

(Planning on the raptor started in 1981)

Part of the reason that our aircraft are so old is because the development/testing cycle is so long. You also have to remember that the jets we fly today are not the jets that were originally built.

A good example would be the F-14. When I was still in the Navy we were flying F-14 D's. They had all new powerplants and avionics software.

The problem is the airframes get old and the stress of ACM takes its toll regardless of whether it is real combat or training. So it becomes necessary to eventually phase out the old and replace it w/new.

Frankly I will be sad to see the F-14s go. They are gorgeous. And what else carries the Phoenix? Nothing.

The F-22 is slotted to replace the F-15 and to my knowledge there is no variant for the Navy.

The JSF will probably be the next Navy fixed wing aircraft but I don't know if it will replace the F-14 or not. I guess w/the JSF and the F-18 they will be pretty well covered for Fighter/Interceptor and Attack.

What will be real interesting is how much longer you see the S-3 and EA-6B stick around. Specialty aircraft like that can have a long life span, like the F-4 Wild Weasels.

These new "stealthy" craft are cool but a Tomcat just looks so much meaner. I'm a romantic that way I guess.

An even more intriguing question is how much longer there will be pilots in any military aircraft. UAVs are the up and coming thing.

>I think that we learned that nobody can build enough of a defense so that they are invincible. <

Conratulations, bubbo, you hit the truth gong. A wise and ancient
historian once said of the Eastern Roman Empire: "Never so
fortified. Never so vulnerable." He was talking about the many
outposts Justinian built in his attempt to protect Constantinople
from the barbarian hordes. The outposts were easily circumvented and the Empire wound up paying tribute to the
barbarians for their peace and security.

Another obvious example is the infamous Maginot Line of
World War Two. The French may be great cooks but they make
lousy warriors.

If America stands pat, takes a defensive posture against people
sworn to be our enemies and would-be conquerors, then it's just
a matter of time before just that will happen. Using Rome as a
timeline, the United States is at or near its peak of empire. This is
not a nation in decline, but it is a nation with a lot of enemies sworn to destroy us. If we stand stationary as a target, our enemies will succeed. This is why we are at war and why we
must prosecute the war with every ounce of energy we have.
The first goal of any enemy is to de-stabilize and incapacitate
any foe. Once that goal is acheived, it's not long before the prey
is carved up and eaten.

rick barclay