The motivation of at least 2 wars in early American History

**Aran** · 03-10-2002

I was doing some reading on the Mexican-American war and i came across quite an interesting point. Wars are caused when a group of articulate people engage in illegal activities, then the laws are enforced. This is one of the contributing factors to the start of the Mexican-American war (besides Manifest Destiny and a couple other reasons), and the main factor of the American Revolution...

face it, The United States was created by a bunch of articulate babies who couldn't follow laws. Its sad, but it is true. As soon as Britain clamped down on the colonies and started actually enforcing their laws, The Americans whimpered and started stirring up problems...

**Justin W** · 03-10-2002

Whatever.

**Aran** · 03-10-2002

i thought i should bring this to the attention of the public because i feel it's useless to live in the euphoric ideals of "The US is a crusader for justice!" when they actually fought against justice to attain their independence.

**Govtcheez** · 03-10-2002

> when they actually fought against justice to attain their independence.

I find it hard to believe things like being taxed by a government thousands of miles away without having any say in the way they were governed is "justice".

**incognito** · 03-10-2002

Yeah I seem to remember something about a monopolization of tea or something? Remember that? Or, am I wrong? Trying to monolopilze the tea industry by taxing it or something like that I don't remember quite well.

**Aran** · 03-10-2002

America was fighting with justice and injustice approximately half-and-half. This discussion should not be concentrated on the East India Tea Company debacle, but more on the smuggling and other illegal activities that the Britons let fly during thier period wher they held a policy of Solutary Neglect with the american colonies.

**incognito** · 03-10-2002

Smuggling well buddy if you were overtaxed and did not have a say about it.....even if you did you would be about one against a whole bunch of people....I mean you're being overtaxed I guess you resort to smuggling if you're being taxed too much for your shipments.

**incognito** · 03-10-2002

I know this government has done a lot of nasty things.....don't get me wrong, but present generations should not be blamed for the mistakes of past generations.

**Aran** · 03-10-2002

oh, but of course they shouldn't be blamed.

We should keep in mind, we are as flawed as any other country is (although maybe less than some).

Unregistered · 03-10-2002

Originally posted by Aran Elus
oh, but of course they shouldn't be blamed.

We should keep in mind, we are as flawed as any other country is (although maybe less than some).

and why not? you slaughtered the native people by the hundreds and have attitudes changed that much now a days? no they are shoved up in reservations where they live like homeless people

**DavidP** · 03-10-2002

>I find it hard to believe things like being taxed by a government thousands of miles away without having any say in the way they were governed is "justice".

Actually Aran is right. We were taxed just as much, no more, no less, than the people in Britain in the colonial period. It was because Britain actually started enforcing the taxes is because we got mad. It was actually because of our defiance to pay some of those normal taxes that several more taxes came upon us...even though that is not the only reason why some of those taxes were put on us...

But that does not mean that some things were unjustly done. There were quite a few things that were unjustly done to the colonies, and you can find those in the Declaration of Independence.

My history talked to us about all of this stuff one day last semester, and how its interesting to see that there was stuff where we (Americans) were in the wrong...I cannot remember everything she talked to us about though...so I don't want to go around and say stuff that I am not sure is right...I will talk to her about it again to jog my memory...

**ygfperson** · 03-10-2002

United States was created by a bunch of articulate babies who couldn't follow laws

true. still, i'm not complaining. i'd rather be a citizen of the us than a citizen of england for any number of reasons. the 'crusader of justice' disguise is somewhat a disguise, but many people in this country genuinely care about the rights of other people. my perception of justice isn't about enforcing laws, it's about keeping people free. we had just grown too distant from britian to care.

you slaughtered the native people by the hundreds and have attitudes changed that much now a days?

yes and yes. i can't defend it, but it is a well-known fact, something people are concerned about.
they aren't shoved up in reservations anymore than the amish are shoved up in their land. the people that live in the reservations do so to preserve their culture. nothing prevents them from integrating with our culture.

**no-one** · 03-10-2002

by reading this thread it is obvious that not one of you has studied more than grade school American history.

>
face it, The United States was created by a bunch of articulate babies who couldn't follow laws.
<

this is one of the most ignorant statements i've heard all day.

>
As soon as Britain clamped down on the colonies and started actually enforcing their laws, The Americans whimpered and started stirring up problems...
<

you could not be any more wrong.

> when they actually fought against justice to attain their independence.

BS. WHOSE JUSTICE?

>
you slaughtered the native people by the hundreds and have attitudes changed that much now a days? no they are shoved up in reservations where they live like homeless people
<

i don't even wanna start on this.

>Actually Aran is right. We were taxed just as much, no more, no less, than the people in Britain in the colonial period.

WHAT THE F---?

> It was because Britain actually started enforcing the taxes is because we got mad.

AGAIN, WHAT THE F---?

we are far from perfect and far from never having made mistakes, but jesus people get you damn facts straight!

the British were extremely opressive on the American colonies that is why we fought for independance we were not much more to them puppets to buy their crap! they put on the damn taxes to DESTROY our industry and are ability to COMPETE with them or buy competing products!! they were monopolising the trade markets! and killing our trade and buisness!

im not going any farther on this because its just gonna turn into a damned flame war and i don't feel like it! but if you gonna dog on America or any other country for that matter get your damn facts straight.

**novacain** · 03-11-2002

>>they put on the damn taxes to DESTROY our industry and are ability to COMPETE with them or buy competing products!! they were monopolising the trade markets! and killing our trade and buisness!

Which is nothing like the US puting up to 30% tax on imported steel to prop up your bloated industry. Instead of taking the hard road we had too over the last few years and cutting out the fat so we could produce cheaper steel at the cost of profit and jobs.

It could cost me my job. Will cost other Aussies jobs. Hey, we sent troops to help you, we are your allies, why do that to us?

Oh well, we will see you in court in a few years, when our steel industry is compleatly dead.

Lets not even start on the US$200Bil plus for farmers.

Put in perspective, your foriegn aid is under US$50bil. Much less than a short war on terrorism.

This is now not then.

**Deckard** · 03-11-2002

There seems to be some confusion with the terms "justice" and "law". They are not interchangable.

Were the colonists violating the law? Certainly.
Were the colonists fighting against justice? I don't believe so.

Perhaps this thread would be better served with a link to an editorial by Thomas Payne written in 1776. The document is entitled Common Sense, and is well thought out. I must warn our shallow-minded friends that the document is written in the grammar of the period and contains a few "big words". For the benefit of those individuals, I have also included a link to a dictionary. The document is also quite lengthy, so be sure to click the "continue reading" links at the bottom of each page. Perhaps reading the paper will give you a better understanding of the sentiment at the time, and why so many people were willing to die.

I hope your junior high school history class has scheduled time to discuss this document in detail.

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