Thread: The motivation of at least 2 wars in early American History

No-one looked at the site but;

1. The site you give is a union site. It is also state not national and is for the party in opposition. Any thing they want is not going to affect anyone outside NSW.

>>Cameron says a Social Audit should be the mechanism to kick-start debate on the trade issue and provide a catalyst for a broader debate on issues like a Tobin Tax and social tariffs for countries who fail to meet minimum global labour standards.

This sounds more like sanctions against countries that expoilt workers, not to prop up our industry.

2. 'Sneek and peek' searches are US law now. They happen by definition without your knowledge. Search warrant, can the NSA / FBI / CIA / Mickey mouse say "he's a suspected terrorist" and not get one?

3. Military tribunal trials for non military personel (no rules of evidence, less rights ect) do not require an act of congress to become law. Bobo has issued the military order and so they are now law.
As to nukes, look here

http://theaustralian.news.com.au/com...5E2703,00.html

A sample is
>>Nuclear experts said the most significant change in the US strategy was to move away from the use of nuclear weapons as a last resort.

PLAN : "a list of things that never happen."

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Search warrant, can the NSA / FBI / CIA / Mickey mouse say "he's a suspected terrorist" and not get one?
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not without proof,

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Military tribunal trials for non military personel (no rules of evidence, less rights ect) do not require an act of congress to become law. Bobo has issued the military order and so they are now law.
As to nukes, look here
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does not apply to citizens.
and i doubt it applies to civilians.
only combatants.

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As to nukes, look here,

"immediate, potential or unexpected" crises that required a nuclear response from the US.
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key word here is required!

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using nuclear weapons as part of its response to a threat.
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keyword is response

in simple terms "preemptive defensive action."

though this does worry me a bit.

Search warrant, can the NSA / FBI / CIA / Mickey mouse say "he's a suspected terrorist" and not get one?
<
not without proof,

Tell that to the guy who was in jail in England since Sept 11th because the CIA think he knew someone involved and was a pilot from the middle east. Turns out three months later he wasn't. (released due to lack of evidence last month)

>>does not apply to citizens.

You mean does not apply to US citizens.
I did not understand that being in the US military revoked your US citizenship. Does it? Or are the US military now not subject to US military law?

Be very careful of reducing the right of non _US_ citizens like this. I think it wise to treat the terrorists with extreme kindness in the hope the next US serviceman captured does not endure similar torture. (open cell, bound hand and foot, 24/7 light and sound, sleep depravation)

One of your sailors is accused of rape here in my home town. He was on one of the four ships back from the war. We are not allowed to even hold him here and question him. Have to leave him on his ship. Does it work the other way round, no. Did that make news in the US?

Also combatants are now anyone on a battlefield, including the people silly enought to call it home before the battle.

>>in simple terms "preemptive defensive action."
SIMPLE terms?
(why not say 'blowing up things before they can treaten you, hell nuke 'em up if they look at us funny')

Some mad men blow up the golden Gate Bridge, some clues leads back to a terrorist THOUGHT to be in Somalia. Does this give the US the authority to take "preemptive defensive action" and nuke Somalia? Because that is what GWB has decreed.

Well, I was going to read this whole thing, but I'm just gonna go and agree with ygf. Monkeys are fun.

i really don't like this board.. i post one night and then come back the next just to have 2 pages of posts to mow through, most of which aren't too nice to anyone and accomplish close to nothing (besides prolonging the conflict)...

You post "America's whiny babies" and expect people not to get ........ed? Moron.

> canada ownz you all!

C'mon Dean... Canada ownz j00! j00!

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I did not understand that being in the US military revoked your US citizenship. Does it? Or are the US military now not subject to US military law?
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ok, being in the Military mean you are subject to MILITARY LAW!

>Be very careful of reducing the right of non _US_ citizens like this.

im not your just paranoid

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I think it wise to treat the terrorists with extreme kindness in the hope the next US serviceman captured does not endure similar torture. (open cell, bound hand and foot, 24/7 light and sound, sleep depravation)
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a) they don't seserve what we give them
>(open cell, bound hand and foot, 24/7 light and sound, sleep depravation)

who the f--- are you refering to? no prisoner on US soil is boud hand and foot all day!

>24/7 light and sound, sleep depravation

WTF! THIS IS STANDARD PRACTICE IN ANY(YES ANY) WAR PRISON! Especially when they need info from the prisoners!

b) STOP DEFENDING THESE *******S THEYVE ALWAYS BRUTALLY KILLED OUR SOLDIERS THEY WILL NEVER EVER TREAT OUR SOLDIERS WELL THEY HATE US TO MUCH SO STOP PREACHING THIS BULL****!!

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One of your sailors is accused of rape here in my home town. He was on one of the four ships back from the war. We are not allowed to even hold him here and question him. Have to leave him on his ship. Does it work the other way round, no. Did that make news in the US?
<

no it did not, and i don't knw the full story so i cant judge!
but it don't sound quite like our militay policy!


>SIMPLE terms?
(why not say 'blowing up things before they can treaten you, hell nuke 'em up if they look at us funny')

Some mad men blow up the golden Gate Bridge, some clues leads back to a terrorist THOUGHT to be in Somalia. Does this give the US the authority to take "preemptive defensive action" and nuke Somalia? Because that is what GWB has decreed.
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WHERE THE HELLDO YOU PEOPLE GET THIS ****!

WHEN HAS THE U.S. EVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS?

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SO DAMN FRIGHTENED?
IF WE WERE GONNA ITS BE DONE BY NOW!

EVEN WE THE U.S. CITIZENS WOLD NOT TOLERATE A NUCULAR STRIKE WITHOUT THE GRAVEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES!

I am not defending terrorism, I am not frightened. I am picking on the US. What the terrorists did is inexcuseable. The level the US, who Australia has allied with, is willing to sink to is what I am concerned about. Surely if you bothered to find out these things you would take more care in who ran your country and how.
Don't in the hysteria over S11 let Bush get away with your rights.

>>open cell means.. the door's open?
Wire cage, 2m x 1.5m x 2m with iron roof in sunny Cuba.

>>no prisoner on US soil is boud hand and foot all day
Your right (as far as I know), they are in the US military prison in Cuba. Is that still US soil? (as Aust bases in Antarctic are considered Aust soil?) Though you do have that crazy jail in Texas where the prisoners wear pink and live in tents.

>>WHEN HAS THE U.S. EVER DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS?
It was a hypothetical question, (when was the Golden gate blown up).

But seeing you asked.
How about;
When you sent cruise missiles against factories in Somalia that you thought were owned by Bin Laudin and making chem weapons. Turns out your intel did not know exactly what was going on, but Clinton needed to act after the bombing of the USS Cole. Turns out normal factories.
Or
The sixty Pakastani army officers trained in northern Pakistan to assasinate Bin Laudin before S11 under orders from Clinton. Operation abandoned because of the military coup. What did happen to these CIA trained assasins?
Or
Nixon arguing to nuke Vietnam. Recently released on tape.
Or
Training Bin Laudin himself. Giving the leader of the terrorists, CIA tactics and equipment to pass on, when you thought he would use them only against the Russians.

Want me to go on?
(I have contacts in the elite SAS, which is based here, so I hear some things.)